Are you scared of the Middle Eastern Boogey Man? (1 Viewer)

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

How can you blame this on Clinton? Seriously. I don't/didn't like the man. But how in the hell is any of this his fault? He didn't attack Iraq while leaving our borders open... under the veil of "terrorism". There were no terrorist attacks during his reign... save OKC. A domestic attack. You seem to have it ass backward.

I can blame it on Clinton because he did nothing to fight terrorism and tried to treat it like a crime and not what it was an act of war. The Clinton-Gorelick wall allowed 9-11 to happen.

No terrorist attacks against the U.S. by Islamic-fascists under Clinton, you don't say?

1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Once the conservatives start to lose an argument, they start talking about all the things Clinton did like it makes a ****ing difference.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Once the conservatives start to lose an argument, they start talking about all the things Clinton did like it makes a ****ing difference.

It does make a difference it points out the lefts hypocricy and proves their partisanship which they put above the security and defense of the people of the United States.

 

[vergiss]

Once the conservatives start to lose an argument, they start talking about all the things Clinton did like it makes a ****ing difference.

There's me thinking that criticising your government was treasonous and un-American!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

There's me thinking that criticising your government was treasonous and un-American!

Article 3

Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

"idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong,"

Sounds like Dean was giving comfort to the enemy to me, the problem lies in the fact that the libs have used newspeak to redefine treason as patriotism and patriotism as treason.

 

[vergiss]

Patriotism is treason? WTF?

You're avoiding the point, that it's okay for you to criticise Clinton, but it's not okay for us to criticise Bush?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Patriotism is treason? WTF?

You're avoiding the point, that it's okay for you to criticise Clinton, but it's not okay for us to criticise Bush?

No I'm critisizing anyone with the mindset that terrorism is a boogey man and not a clear and present danger to the security of the United States of America Bush does not have that mindset, however, Mr. Clinton and many on this forum did and (for the life of me after 9-11 I don't understand how) still do.

 

[cnredd]

Patriotism is treason? WTF?

You're avoiding the point, that it's okay for you to criticise Clinton, but it's not okay for us to criticise Bush?

The major problem some on the Left have with this logic is that they confuse this statement...

"The Right has a problem with the Left dissenting."

with this statement...

"The Right has a problem with HOW the Left is dissenting."

There is a major difference between those two statements...

If some on the Left would conduct their dissent in a more intelligent manner and not go flying off the handle then what they say may be more conducive to actual debate...

As with most things, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil...

If you were to ask a group of protesters against the war in Iraq, or anything else against GWB for that matter, what they think of the President, you will get a broad range of answers...Everything from...

"I think the President is extending his legal interpretations of the law passed the bounderies and there should be an investigation."(Perfectly legit)

down to...

"Bush is a Nazi dickwad who should have his balls removed publicly, sent to the gas chamber, and they should throw the rest of his cabal in there with him!" (WTF?)

See the difference?

Most people here knows Voltaire's famous quote...

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

That is a very true statement, but what it does NOT concern itself with is the part about dealing with the issue of what he doesn't agree with...

This should have been followed with another sentence that would hold equal value...

"I'll defend your right to say what you want, but I waill ALSO be free to confront you on what you've said."

Everyone here likes to yell "Dissent is honorable"...so be it...

BUT....

"Dissenting upon your dissent" should ALSO be held in the same regard...

If you criticize someone or something, you must understand that what YOU say is also up for criticism...That point seems to be left out for those who criticize the President or his Administration...Believing you can say what you want with impunity, but NOT letting others say what they want about you without affording them that same impunity is incredibly hypocritical...and, I must say, directly against the constitutional rights of those who dissent upon your comments...

That is, indeed, unpatriotic...

 

[Caine]

The major problem some on the Left have with this logic is that they confuse this statement...

"The Right has a problem with the Left dissenting."

with this statement...

"The Right has a problem with HOW the Left is dissenting."

There is a major difference between those two statements...

So, as long as the government can keep us in fear for our lives of terrorism we are good to go right??? Thats ridiculous, you can live in fear if you want to, I refuse to let Bush and his buddies keep me in fear of terrorism.

If some on the Left would conduct their dissent in a more intelligent manner and not go flying off the handle then what they say may be more conducive to actual debate...

As with most things, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil...

If you were to ask a group of protesters against the war in Iraq, or anything else against GWB for that matter, what they think of the President, you will get a broad range of answers...Everything from...

"I think the President is extending his legal interpretations of the law passed the bounderies and there should be an investigation."(Perfectly legit)

down to...

"Bush is a Nazi dickwad who should have his balls removed publicly, sent to the gas chamber, and they should throw the rest of his cabal in there with him!" (WTF?)

See the difference?

Most people here knows Voltaire's famous quote...

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

That is a very true statement, but what it does NOT concern itself with is the part about dealing with the issue of what he doesn't agree with...

This should have been followed with another sentence that would hold equal value...

"I'll defend your right to say what you want, but I waill ALSO be free to confront you on what you've said."

Everyone here likes to yell "Dissent is honorable"...so be it...

BUT....

"Dissenting upon your dissent" should ALSO be held in the same regard...

If you criticize someone or something, you must understand that what YOU say is also up for criticism...That point seems to be left out for those who criticize the President or his Administration...Believing you can say what you want with impunity, but NOT letting others say what they want about you without affording them that same impunity is incredibly hypocritical...and, I must say, directly against the constitutional rights of those who dissent upon your comments...

That is, indeed, unpatriotic...

Funny thing is, ALL DEMOCRATS are getting called unpatriotic, and then people like KCConservative are making things up like, THE DEMOCRATS WANT US TO LOSE THE WAR AND WANT US SOLDIERS TO DIE SO THAT THEY CAN WIN POLITICALLY. That is JUST as stupid and ignorant as the "manner" in which some folks on the left like to dissent. Im not going to lie, there are people who get a little out there with thier comments on Bush, and then there are those, Like KCConservative and Trajan who think if your not bowing down to the almighty Bush and believing everything he says then you are a traitor. Im still curious as to how saying something about how our government isn't doing the job is somehow giving comfort and aid to the enemy. Its a pathetic interpretation, I can see if Howard Dean was paying for Terrorists to get rooms at Motel 8, and handing out Toilet Paper to them, then I could understand, but Dean voicing his opinion on our own government's failures is somehow twisted into giving comfort. Kerry's comments on how we shouldn't be busting into Iraqi homes in the middle of the night (which I disagree, since thats the best time to conduct a search) and scaring little children is turned into Kerry is calling our soldiers terrorist heathens, Murtha saying we should leave Iraq as soon as possible is turned into "cut and run". I love how the right makes valiant attempts to twist any bit of "large" dissent into something that sounds unpatriotic in an attempt to continue to control the people and keep them afraid of terrorism.

FEAR THE BOOGEY MAN!

 

[cnredd]

So, as long as the government can keep us in fear for our lives of terrorism we are good to go right??? Thats ridiculous, you can live in fear if you want to, I refuse to let Bush and his buddies keep me in fear of terrorism.


Funny thing is, ALL DEMOCRATS are getting called unpatriotic, and then people like KCConservative are making things up like, THE DEMOCRATS WANT US TO LOSE THE WAR AND WANT US SOLDIERS TO DIE SO THAT THEY CAN WIN POLITICALLY. That is JUST as stupid and ignorant as the "manner" in which some folks on the left like to dissent. Im not going to lie, there are people who get a little out there with thier comments on Bush, and then there are those, Like KCConservative and Trajan who think if your not bowing down to the almighty Bush and believing everything he says then you are a traitor. Im still curious as to how saying something about how our government isn't doing the job is somehow giving comfort and aid to the enemy. Its a pathetic interpretation, I can see if Howard Dean was paying for Terrorists to get rooms at Motel 8, and handing out Toilet Paper to them, then I could understand, but Dean voicing his opinion on our own government's failures is somehow twisted into giving comfort. Kerry's comments on how we shouldn't be busting into Iraqi homes in the middle of the night (which I disagree, since thats the best time to conduct a search) and scaring little children is turned into Kerry is calling our soldiers terrorist heathens, Murtha saying we should leave Iraq as soon as possible is turned into "cut and run". I love how the right makes valiant attempts to twist any bit of "large" dissent into something that sounds unpatriotic in an attempt to continue to control the people and keep them afraid of terrorism.

FEAR THE BOOGEY MAN!

If you would like to sit there and generalize all people on the Right for the idiotic remarks of a small contingency when they generalize all people on the Left as people who want to lose the war for political gain, which is an equally small contingency, then no one is stopping you...

Sink to their level...It just tells me more about you than them...

You've mentioned two people...Both Conservative...

One of them recently was suspended(by me), came back, and was suspended again yesterday(by me)...and the other has their own thread dedicated to him in the Basement that questions his unreasonable debating tactics...and I am one of those that responded...

So to take the actions of TWO people and claim this as some attempt to have the whole Right be charged with attempting to smear the whole Left is a cry, much like Jackson or Sharpton, of playing the "party card"...

I gave this accusation too much time already...:roll:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

If you would like to sit there and generalize all people on the Right for the idiotic remarks of a small contingency when they generalize all people on the Left as people who want to lose the war for political gain, which is an equally small contingency, then no one is stopping you...

Sink to their level...It just tells me more about you than them...

You've mentioned two people...Both Conservative...

One of them recently was suspended(by me), came back, and was suspended again yesterday(by me)...and the other has their own thread dedicated to him in the Basement that questions his unreasonable debating tactics...and I am one of those that responded...

So to take the actions of TWO people and claim this as some attempt to have the whole Right be charged with attempting to smear the whole Left is a cry, much like Jackson or Sharpton, of playing the "party card"...

I gave this accusation too much time already...:roll:

Hay I don't critisize all liberals and Democrats as treasonous unpatriotic ass holes just the ones in the house, the senate, on T.V. in the paper and magazines, and on the radio, everyone else I give the benefit of the doubt until I hear them speak and when they do it usually just confirms my original theory that liberals are unpatriotic treachorous assholes, but when you say things like terrorism is a boogey man what do you expect? Me to say: "oh ya I see that you're a total rational observer yatayatayata," hell no I'm going to call you out as the fifth column naive liberal that you are.

 

[Caine]

Hay I don't critisize all liberals and Democrats as treasonous unpatriotic ass holes just the ones in the house, the senate, on T.V. and on the radio, everyone else I give the benefit of the doubt until I hear them speak and when they do it usually just confirms my original theory that liberals are unpatriotic traitors, but when you say things like terrorism is a boogey man what do you expect? Me to say oh ya I see that you're a total rational observer yatayatayata, hell no I'm going to call you out as the fifth column naive liberal that you are.

Aha... Now I see your true colors.
Spitting out Michael Savage earns no points from my side.
Im just going to call you one of those "my way or treason" conservatives.

You can think what you want to, but Im not going to fear the terrorists, like you obviously do, as you would give up all your civil liberties in order to be "safe" from them. Anyone can be a terrorist if they want to be, the government isn't going to protect you from everyone.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Aha... Now I see your true colors.
Spitting out Michael Savage earns no points from my side.
Im just going to call you one of those "my way or treason" conservatives.

You can think what you want to, but Im not going to fear the terrorists, like you obviously do, as you would give up all your civil liberties in order to be "safe" from them. Anyone can be a terrorist if they want to be, the government isn't going to protect you from everyone.

You insinuate that because I want my president to take all necessary measures to stop innocent people from getting killed that I am afraid of the terrorists well fine for you, I find it remarkable that after 9-11 people like you still exist, you keep living in your fantasy world where terrorism is only a myth if you want to, I'll prefer to live in reality where terrorism is very real and poses a clear and present danger to our country and the lives of innocent Americans.

 

[Caine]

You insinuate that because I want my president to take all necessary measures to stop innocent people from getting killed that I am afraid of the terrorists well fine for you, I find it remarkable that after 9-11 people like you still exist, you keep living in your fantasy world where terrorism is only a myth if you want to, I'll prefer to live in reality where terrorism is very real and poses a clear and present danger to our country and the lives of innocent Americans.

BOOOOGEY! BOOOOOGEY! DA BOOGEY MAN IS COMING TO GET YOU!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

BOOOOGEY! BOOOOOGEY! DA BOOGEY MAN IS COMING TO GET YOU!

No you're right AlQaeda is only a myth . . . how's fantasy land these days?

 

[Caine]

No you're right AlQaeda is only a myth . . . how's fantasy land these days?

lol... how's ignorance land these days?

I never once said Al Qaeda doesn't exist, please quote me if I specifically said this, because I didn't you ASSumed it.

Im laughing at you for constantly sounding scared shitless of terrorism, scared so bad you'll let Bush and Co. do whatever it is they want to as long as the boogey man doesn't get you.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

lol... how's ignorance land these days?

I never once said Al Qaeda doesn't exist, please quote me if I specifically said this, because I didn't you ASSumed it.

Im laughing at you for constantly sounding scared shitless of terrorism, scared so bad you'll let Bush and Co. do whatever it is they want to as long as the boogey man doesn't get you.

Are you scared of the Middle Eastern Boogey Man?

Boogey Man -a mythical character used to scare children into not misbehaving.

 

[Caine]

Boogey Man -a mythical character used to scare children into not misbehaving.

Hrmm... Since I didn't say,
"Al Qaeda does not exist"
Yet you quoted me on asking about the boogey man.

I'll take it as you ASSumed.

What do they say about someone who assumes?

 

[Caine]

Terrorist - a middle eastern man used to scare citizens of a nation into giving up thier civil liberties for the "security" of the nation, while failing to adhere to any suggestions of the 9/11 comission and recieving an "F" grade on the nation's security reportcard.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Hrmm... Since I didn't say,
"Al Qaeda does not exist"
Yet you quoted me on asking about the boogey man.

I'll take it as you ASSumed.

What do they say about someone who assumes?

No you said that they are a myth which is the same thing:


Myth - somebody or something fictitious: somebody or something whose existence is or was widely believed in, but who is fictitious
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Terrorist - a middle eastern man used to scare citizens of a nation into giving up thier civil liberties for the "security" of the nation, while failing to adhere to any suggestions of the 9/11 comission and recieving an "F" grade on the nation's security reportcard.

Al Qaeda - ahl-KY-duh International terrorist network that claimed responsibility for the September 11 attacks; "Al Qaeda means "the base"

September 11th attacks - attack perpetrated by Al Qaeda killing 3,000 innocent men, women, and children.

Fifth column - refers to any clandestine group of people which works covertly inside a nation to undermine its strength (psychological warfare) while the nation is simultaneously suffering an overt attack by a foreign power or another faction in a civil war.

Synonyms may include the Democratic party.

 

[cnredd]

Terrorist - a middle eastern man used to scare citizens of a nation into giving up thier civil liberties for the "security" of the nation, while failing to adhere to any suggestions of the 9/11 comission and recieving an "F" grade on the nation's security reportcard.

What you've just written has more than a touch of hypocracy to it...

If the "Middle Eastern man" is just being used to scare citizens and nothing more, than the 9/11 Omissions recommendations would be irrelevant...

Why should we appease the 9/11 Omission's recomendation to protect ourselves from an enemy that you believe is overrated and isn't really a threat?

Accordng to that logic, we should be doing nothing, because there is no threat...:roll:

 

[tecoyah]

Perspective.....a useful tool.

Likely, anyone who really thinks on this situation will come to the realization that terrorism is real, and indeed a threat to everyone in this world. To my thinking its a matter of placing this threat into perspective, based on the context of our human condition in this country. We have attempted, in our "Grand Experiment" of democracy to create a balance between individual freedoms, and societal health.....with relative success. This is one of the beautys of the United States, and well worth fighting for.
In my own opinion we run the risk of dilluting this recipe for freedom when we base our descisions on fear, and remove the respect given to the institutions of Government. We are at a very critical time in the evolution of our country...with choices before us that will likely guide the direction this experiment heads for centuries. I fear the results of these descisions far more than terrorism.

Far More......

 

[JOHNYJ]

President Bush used the Boogey man to get elected.He scared the American people into voteing for him against their own real interests. Of course the democrats nominating a putsh helped a lot.
If he cared as much about protecting the American people as he claims.Why is the mexican border a sive.Anyone carrying anything can get across it,but.It serves the political interests of the Republicans for it to be that way.So President Bush talks much and does little.

 

[vergiss]

Accordng to that logic, we should be doing nothing, because there is no threat...:roll:

Why the black and white? There's a middle ground between doing nothing and taking it too far.