Are you a liberal?

[Fabiusbile]

Personally, I can't attribute myself to any one vector of politics, philosophy...
For many, my vision may be contradictory... but in fact, everything is simpler. Different issues require different solutions and narrow-minded fanaticism with unquestioning commitment... this is not for me.
I highly appreciate liberalism and consider this philosophy important and necessary, as well as democracy... however, there are times when this lyric is not suitable and people who do not feel sentimental should act.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Some people pick up phrases from I don't know where, somewhere on the internet is my guess, and have NO CLUE what they are even phrasing, sheesh.

They think a phrase looks so cute it deserves to be said a lot and use it as clickbait.

 

[aociswundumho]

Not sure that protecting property rights over civil rights makes one a protector of civil liberties.

Virtually every classic liberal I have ever seen supports the right of businesses to discriminate against everyone they want.

Property rights are extremely important and when governments refuse to recognize them, literally millions of people end up dead.

Civil rights, however, are virtually worthless. We could repeal the CRA, the fair housing act, the voting rights act, etc, and nobody would even notice they were gone.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

The GOP has its own set of issues but the 500 or so assholes who broke into the Capitol and assaulted the police officers are not the modern day GOP. Those folks were outliers, just as Antifa are outliers.

Painting with a broad brush seems to be commonplace nowadays and it's increasing the division. Every Republican I know condemns the acts of 1/6 as well as white supremacy. But listening to some folks here (you included), you act like 500 people represent nearly half the country when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth. Every Democrat I know (with the exception of a very few) condemns the acts of Antifa as well as the BLM protesters who loot and destroy. It's long past time to stop blaming entire "sides" for the actions of a few.

Half of Republicans believe false accounts of deadly U.S. Capitol riot-Reuters/Ipsos poll

Since the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies have pushed false and misleading accounts to downplay the event that left five dead and scores of others wounded. His supporters appear to have listened.

www.reuters.com

53% of Republicans view Trump as true U.S. president -Reuters/Ipsos

A majority of Republicans still believe Donald Trump won the 2020 U.S. presidential election and blame his loss to Joe Biden on illegal voting, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.

www.reuters.com

Cool story. Let us know when the audiobook arrives so Republicans can enjoy it too.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Property rights are extremely important and when governments refuse to recognize them, literally millions of people end up dead.

Civil rights, however, are virtually worthless. We could repeal the CRA, the fair housing act, the voting rights act, etc, and nobody would even notice they were gone.

You mean *you* wouldn’t notice it. Cause white guy landowner.

 

[aociswundumho]

Virtually every classic liberal I have ever seen supports the right of businesses to discriminate against everyone they want.

Yes, because the alternative is to force people into contracts that they don't want to enter, and every business transaction is a contract. Since even before the middle ages it has been accepted and understood that parties must enter into contracts willingly, otherwise the contract is void.

 

[aociswundumho]

You mean *you* wouldn’t notice it. Cause white guy landowner.

Consider the Fair Housing Act. It's been in effect for nearly 60 years, yet look at how segregated the progressive city of Boston is:




Or the liberal city of Detroit:



The Fair Housing act is a complete failure even in leftist cities ruled by Democrats. You could repeal the Fair Housing Act tomorrow and nothing would change; minorities wouldn't even notice.

 

[bongsaway]

Two diff things, though very much the same. Cons can be 51% prog, but not 51% lib. Most American lean con. I haven't researched prog.

What is your definition of progressive?

We can start with addressing climate change by going green as quickly as possible. Upgrade all of our infrastructure to be a smart grid. Redo the tax code closing all the loopholes for the super wealthy and corporate america. It's long past time they pay their fair share. If they are being taxed so severely can anyone explain why they hide their money offshore? It's certainly not because they can't afford to pay the taxes, it's because they don't want to pay the taxes. Health care with a single payer. Lower the age for medicare. In other words it's time our government starting taking care of we the people instead of we the military industrial complex, the super wealthy and multinational corporations. They all already have plenty of everything.

I think that would be a good start. We cannot keep polluting this planet and expect nothing to happen.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Consider the Fair Housing Act. It's been in effect for nearly 60 years, yet look at how segregated the progressive city of Boston is:


View attachment 67344134

Or the liberal city of Detroit:

View attachment 67344135

The Fair Housing act is a complete failure even in leftist cities ruled by Democrats. You could repeal the Fair Housing Act tomorrow and nothing would change; minorities wouldn't even notice.

Yes, I heard you twice the first time you said only landowners counted. I bet I own more land than you. I should count more.

 

[RedAkston]

View attachment 67344131

Half of Republicans believe false accounts of deadly U.S. Capitol riot-Reuters/Ipsos poll

Since the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies have pushed false and misleading accounts to downplay the event that left five dead and scores of others wounded. His supporters appear to have listened.

www.reuters.com

View attachment 67344133

53% of Republicans view Trump as true U.S. president -Reuters/Ipsos

A majority of Republicans still believe Donald Trump won the 2020 U.S. presidential election and blame his loss to Joe Biden on illegal voting, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.

www.reuters.com

Cool story. Let us know when the audiobook arrives so Republicans can enjoy it too.

This counters nothing I've said. A link to a poll (does anyone actually believe in the accuracy of polls after than last 2 elections) with an opinion piece.

You came up a little short, yet again.

 

[gulfman]

I'm not a liberal.I'm an American.Big difference.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

This counters nothing I've said. A link to a poll (does anyone actually believe in the accuracy of polls after than last 2 elections) with an opinion piece.

You came up a little short, yet again.

That opinion piece had a poll, unlike your opinion piece that had a poll of some randos you know.

You made up an opinion unsupported by reality. Be bothered by that, at least a little.

 

[RedAkston]

That opinion piece had a poll, unlike your opinion piece that had a poll of some randos you know.

"Some randos" are actual human beings, in the real world, across multiple states, varying ages, different education levels and a wide swath of income levels from stupid rich to dirt poor. Sorry your opinion piece with a "poll" didn't have the effect you had hoped it would.

You made up an opinion unsupported by reality. Be bothered by that, at least a little.

Of the two of us you've repeatedly shown yourself to be the one living in an alternate reality but I digress.

 

[bomberfox]

Not sure that protecting property rights over civil rights makes one a protector of civil liberties.

Virtually every classic liberal I have ever seen supports the right of businesses to discriminate against everyone they want.

Pretty much, some people identify more with the mont pellerin society’s neo liberalism. Thats where you get Hayek and Friedman and Von Mises.

 

[bomberfox]

Which is fine. I will never tolerate nazism. I don’t have to pretend it deserves equal air as not nazism.

Such an argument would be “you should die” vs “i dont want to die” dressed up in fancy confetti.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

"Some randos" are actual human beings, in the real world, across multiple states, varying ages, different education levels and a wide swath of income levels from stupid rich to dirt poor. Sorry your opinion piece with a "poll" didn't have the effect you had hoped it would.

You weren’t the intended audience for those polls. And we have no means of verifying that you know *anyone*, so I can point to my sources and prove they exist.

Lemme know when you can link to yours.

 

[RedAkston]

You weren’t the intended audience for those polls. And we have no means of verifying that you know *anyone*, so I can point to my sources and prove they exist.

Your sources - an opinion piece and a poll that can't verify *anyone*. I'll take the word of actual people that exist and live in the real world.

Lemme know when you can link to yours.

Is it difficult being on the wrong side of literally every argument? I can't imagine what that must feel like. It has to be rough.

Can we expect more opinion pieces and asinine arguments from you? Of course we can, it's all you have to offer.

 

[trixare4kids]

This is just a lazy argument that reveals a basic disconnection with reality. All in in Trump world, and truth and lies are indistinguishable. The only option is to insist the other side does it, which basically htepts it. I think you have stumbled into dangerous territory.

What insurrection? Growing number in GOP downplay Jan. 6

A small but growing number of Republicans are embracing and propagating a false portrayal of the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

apnews.com

That sounds rather ominous..

If you think painting all Republicans as the same, all Trump voters as the same, and representative of the criminals who stormed the Capitol ... carry on.
I've learned not to argue with people who believe they have all the answers.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Your sources - an opinion piece and a poll that can't verify *anyone*. I'll take the word of actual people that exist and live in the real world.

Is it difficult being on the wrong side of literally every argument? I can't imagine what that must feel like. It has to be rough.

Can we expect more opinion pieces and asinine arguments from you? Of course we can, it's all you have to offer.

But we have no means of verifying what you’re saying. And who is “we”? The people you claim to talk to from around the United States that magically support whatever dumb right wing thing you happen to have swallowed whole this week?

You had shit in one hand, a dumb argument in the other. Then you wiped the flopsweat from your brow with the hand that was full.

 

[RedAkston]

But we have no means of verifying what you’re saying. And who is “we”? The people you claim to talk to from around the United States that magically support whatever dumb right wing thing you happen to have swallowed whole this week?

You had shit in one hand, a dumb argument in the other. Then you wiped the flopsweat from your brow with the hand that was full.

Says the person who literally chose a username which includes the name of an actual domestic terror group...

It's clear that you don't know any Republicans in real life (do you even have friends and if you did how could anyone verify them?). You like to source opinion pieces and unverifiable polls to support something that wasn't related to the statements I previously made. But you do you and I'll keep laughing at you. You are entertaining at least.

I have friends from various political "leans", sorry if that upsets you, and your opinion piece and your poll don't line up with anyone I know, not a one. I'm sure there are people out there that fall in line with your poll but the actual numbers are no where near the claim your opinion piece is trying to make.

As for shit in one hand, blah, blah, blah, you seem to be projecting, again.

 

[TurtleDude]

Liberals v Conservatives

Liberals tip generously, wait longer between haircuts and lawn cuts, take life in stride, help strangers, put others ahead of themselves, smile a lot, have an optimistic and inclusive attitude, make hard work look easy and focus on the common welfare for the most people.
On the flip side, Conservatives tend to have a stingy and judgmental nature, insist on conformity, focus on criticizing other people's values instead of their own, show strangers disdain, glorify themselves, spew hate and discord, frown a lot, have a pessimistic and exclusionary attitude, a sense of entitlement and couldn't give a rats ass about the common welfare.

actually studies have shown that conservatives are more generous-both to secular and religious based charities and tip better. Liberals don't trust people to do the right thing-and thus want government to force such action

 

[Hamish Howl]

actually studies have shown that conservatives are more generous-both to secular and religious based charities and tip better.

Which is a stupid, wasteful way to manage welfare issues.

 

[TurtleDude]

Which is a stupid, wasteful way to manage welfare issues.

that is irrelevant to the point I was making> I was attacking the idiotic claim that conservatives are stingy and less generous than "liberals"/ Liberals-by definition, do not trust people to act to help others so they want the government to force such action

 

[Hamish Howl]

that is irrelevant to the point I was making> I was attacking the idiotic claim that conservatives are stingy and less generous than "liberals"/ Liberals-by definition, do not trust people to act to help others so they want the government to force such action

So what you have is an unreliable currency stream that relies on the mood of reactionaries. No thanks. I prefer things that allow planning.

And I don't trust humans to do anything but shit in their own nest. Setting off nukes in their own atmosphere, for example. Governments at least add some inertia to human stupidity, so that things can be accomplished for a few years at a time.

 

[TurtleDude]

So what you have is an unreliable currency stream that relies on the mood of reactionaries. No thanks. I prefer things that allow planning.

And I don't trust humans to do anything but shit in their own nest. Setting off nukes in their own atmosphere, for example. Governments at least add some inertia to human stupidity, so that things can be accomplished for a few years at a time.

that's the difference between the left and the right. we both want laws based on how we see ourselves. Lefties see themselves and others as children who need a wise big brother to tell them what to do. I see myself as an adult and I don't need someone else to tell me what I need to do