• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Are We Witnessing The Rise Of The Fourth Reich?

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

ARE WE WITNESSING THE RISE OF THE FOURTH REICH?
By Pastor Chuck Baldwin
February 7, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

It seems clear to me that the attitudes and actions of Nazi Germany's ministers and churches are being repeated in the United States today. To a large degree, Evangelicals have wrapped the Cross of Christ in the banner of the Republican Party. They quote Romans chapter 13 to justify their unflinching, yes, even blind support for President Bush. They are willing to surrender their freedoms and liberties so that President Bush might protect them. Pictures of the president almost universally line the halls and walls of our churches, Christian schools, and pastors' offices. They castigate and denigrate in the most caustic terms anyone who dares to challenge or even question President Bush. They are willing to let the president lead them into multiple wars, even wars of aggression, based solely on Bush's word. They refuse to hold the president accountable to the principles of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It seems to me that President Bush has taken on the aura of an American Fuhrer in the minds of many Evangelicals.
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin281.htm

I would have to Agree with the Pastor, the USA is mirrioring what happened in Nazi Germany, many Christians aren't thinking, and blindly following the labels of said Leaders, while their actions show something else.
The German people were not stupid, they were tricked ...just as it is happening today in the USA, we are falling for the same things, believing words and promises instead of the Actions of men and what Christ taught us.
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I agree with you 100%. It is so scary to me to sit back and watch what is going on in this country. The religious right is so focused on their efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade and to make sure civil rights are kept out of the hands of gays, that they are willing to overlook everything else.
I watched a lot of commentators during that last presidential election that commented on the vast number of "one issue voters". The sad thing to me is that in an effort to accomplish their agenda they are willing to sacrifice everything that this country stands for. The only saving grace to fall back on is to realize that they are really only a very small percentage of the population of this country and do not reflect the true views of the majority. However, unless people get off their butts in this country and actually get out and vote and/or do more, each of these radical right-wingers vote counts for much more than a single person.
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
disneydude said:
I agree with you 100%. It is so scary to me to sit back and watch what is going on in this country. The religious right is so focused on their efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade and to make sure civil rights are kept out of the hands of gays, that they are willing to overlook everything else.
I watched a lot of commentators during that last presidential election that commented on the vast number of "one issue voters". The sad thing to me is that in an effort to accomplish their agenda they are willing to sacrifice everything that this country stands for. The only saving grace to fall back on is to realize that they are really only a very small percentage of the population of this country and do not reflect the true views of the majority. However, unless people get off their butts in this country and actually get out and vote and/or do more, each of these radical right-wingers vote counts for much more than a single person.
What Radical Right are you talking about? America is mostly Christian Based the problem is the leaders who say they are Christians but aren't, like George Bush, he isn't Chrsitian, and most of the American people are fast asleep...and not paying attention to what is going on. It was the lack of Christian Responsiblity that the Germans gathered, if the Christians had done there duty Hitler might not of rised to power...but they were saying things like "This is germany, that can't happen here" ;)

America needs God for the Claims of Liberty.

Patrick Henry
March 23, 1775

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased a the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."


"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
 

Navy Pride

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
39,883
Reaction score
3,070
Location
Pacific NW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
No we are not............This country is mostly made up of moderates and conservatives, its just the liberals are more vocal and have the most hate....
 

George_Washington

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,962
Reaction score
0
Location
United States of America and proud of it!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Robodoon said:

ARE WE WITNESSING THE RISE OF THE FOURTH REICH?
By Pastor Chuck Baldwin
February 7, 2006
NewsWithViews.com


http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin281.htm

I would have to Agree with the Pastor, the USA is mirrioring what happened in Nazi Germany, many Christians aren't thinking, and blindly following the labels of said Leaders, while their actions show something else.
The German people were not stupid, they were tricked ...just as it is happening today in the USA, we are falling for the same things, believing words and promises instead of the Actions of men and what Christ taught us.

Uhhh...sorry, dude. Some of us aren't, "blindly following Bush." Some of us actually use our minds and come to the rational conclusion that the war has been neccessary.
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Robodoon:

I agree with you. This country was founded on religious freedom and has a strong "Christian" history.
However, the vocal radical religious right are not that "Christian" heritage. In fact, while they scream to be "Christian God Warriors" there is very little about "Christ" in their actions and beliefs.
Yes....religion is an important part of our society and Yes, the vast majority of people in this country identify themselves as "Christian". But the radical religious right is a close to "Christ" as butter is to margarine. It might taste something like it, but a pale comparison and full of unnatural ingredients that just isn't the same thing.
 

americanwoman

dangerously addictive
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
26,309
Reaction score
19,493
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Navy Pride said:
No we are not............This country is mostly made up of moderates and conservatives, its just the liberals are more vocal and have the most hate....

No- alot of conservatives are also very vocal and don't mind to say**force** their opinion on you. Both sides have the stupid ones as their front which makes no sense if they ever want anyone to take them seriously. Both have people to make them look bad. The right has Robertson and the left has Sheehan. Me -I have no one cause I don't lean either way.;)


I have to agree with Robodoon about these so called "conservative christians" who make real christians laugh at their stupidity and "moral agendas" I am not a christian so I wouldn't know but my cousin's husband is a christian minister and he can't even believe how this country is going. To blindly folllow a leader who speaks of values but then cuts programs for the poor is just plain ignorant and hypocritical-- for just one example. and don't even get me started on those tax cuts cause I went to get my taxes done and found out what a tax cut for the "middle class" really means.
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Navy Pride said:
No we are not............This country is mostly made up of moderates and conservatives, its just the liberals are more vocal and have the most hate....
George Washington

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
"It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe, without the agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being."
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
George_Washington said:
Uhhh...sorry, dude. Some of us aren't, "blindly following Bush." Some of us actually use our minds and come to the rational conclusion that the war has been neccessary.
There was no reason for the WAR, and WE AREN'T AT WAR, CONGRESS NEVER DECLAIRED IT! We are in a police Action like NAM

Some people don't use their minds but think they do. ;)

Did you think Iraq was going to attack us?

Besides Saddam tryed to surrender before the invasion and he was refused because war was planned by the Elites.

Written about 70 years ago.


In 1933

The Shape of Things to Come by H.G. Wells is published, in which he predicts a Second World War will begin in or about 1940, originating from a German-Polish dispute. Wells says the plan for the “Modern World-State” would succeed on its third attempt (about 1980), and come out of something that would occur in Basra, Iraq. At this point, he states, “Russia is ready to assimilate. Is eager to assimilate.” Although world government “had been plainly coming for some years, although it had been endlessly feared and murmured against, if found no opposition prepared anywhere.”
Page 52
Secret Records Revealed, Dennis Laurence Cuddy, Ph.D.

Warned about 40 years ago by Myron Fagan

"World War III is to be fomented, using the so-called controversies; by the agents of the Illuminati operating under whatever new name; that are now being stored up between the political Zionists and the leaders of the Moslem world. That war is to be directed in such a manner that all of Islam and political Zionism (Israelis) will destroy each other while at the same time; the remaining nations, once more divided on this issue, will be forced to fight themselves into a state of complete exhaustion; physically, mentally, spiritually, and economically.
http://100777.com/node/361?PHPSESSID=53305f2fccc1ea511dab8bc74d2477f1 Audio warning from forty years ago, with transcript ;)

FOUR YEARS before the Iraq invasion,
The Book the Grand Chess board was written here is a review of that book by Dr Monteith
Zbigniew Brzezinski stage-managed our foreign policy from 1977 to 1981. He knew that American aid to the mujahideen would lead to Soviet intervention and draw us into a bloody conflict. After reading Brzezinski's book, The Grand Chessboard, I'm convinced he planned a series of battles in the Middle East. America is going to war with Iraq, and may go to war with other countries in that region. If we defeat the Arab nations, the Rockefellers and their friends will control the oil reserves of Central Asia, and dominate the world.
http://www.radioliberty.com/nlapr02.htm
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
disneydude said:
Robodoon:

I agree with you. This country was founded on religious freedom and has a strong "Christian" history.
However, the vocal radical religious right are not that "Christian" heritage. In fact, while they scream to be "Christian God Warriors" there is very little about "Christ" in their actions and beliefs.
Yes....religion is an important part of our society and Yes, the vast majority of people in this country identify themselves as "Christian". But the radical religious right is a close to "Christ" as butter is to margarine. It might taste something like it, but a pale comparison and full of unnatural ingredients that just isn't the same thing.
Well Christ said to pray for our enemies ;)

But what is protrayed to the American people as the "Christian right" normally are elite fronts serving the purpose of "Controlled Opposition"

And Christians that is going along with Bush, I would have to wonder if that person is really A Christian. ;)
They are really no different then the Germans that followed Hitler.
ITs VERY SAD
 

jallman

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,915
Reaction score
11,283
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
americanwoman said:
No- alot of conservatives are also very vocal and don't mind to say**force** their opinion on you. Both sides have the stupid ones as their front which makes no sense if they ever want anyone to take them seriously. Both have people to make them look bad. The right has Robertson and the left has Sheehan. Me -I have no one cause I don't lean either way.;)


I have to agree with Robodoon about these so called "conservative christians" who make real christians laugh at their stupidity and "moral agendas" I am not a christian so I wouldn't know but my cousin's husband is a christian minister and he can't even believe how this country is going. To blindly folllow a leader who speaks of values but then cuts programs for the poor is just plain ignorant and hypocritical-- for just one example. and don't even get me started on those tax cuts cause I went to get my taxes done and found out what a tax cut for the "middle class" really means.
I am right there with you, americanwoman!!! I am equally shocked, amused, and disgusted every time I read another story about the so-called "silent majority" or the self proclaimed "religious right" making an end run around the Constitution in order to oppress or suppress something they find offensive. Boo-hoo-hoo. As a gay man, if I were to raise a fuss about everything that I find offensive, then all I would do is bitch. But, with a little humor and dropping the "oh woe is victimized me" attitude, life is actually pretty cool and the "offensive" things in life get to be down right funny when you can laugh at yourself. I get so fed up with a small group of Christians being more vocal than the rest of us and making us all look bad. I get tired of this War on Christianity crap that is spewed on the fundie networks...I get tired of a small group of Christians trying to suppress the values found in the constitution...the very document which guarantees us our right to worship as we please. Its sickening, its sad, and it needs to stop. I think that the real majority...the rational citizenry...should take back America and give the "silent majority" their wish and truly make them silent by refusing to acknowledge them at all.
 

George_Washington

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,962
Reaction score
0
Location
United States of America and proud of it!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
jallman said:
As a gay man, if I were to raise a fuss about everything that I find offensive, then all I would do is bitch.
lmao. I just got a hilarious image of Cuba Gooding Jr.'s gay role from the film Boat Trip when you just said that. Nevermind though.

Why do you and the majority of the gay community hate it when so called, "Christian Conservatives" want to change the constitution but yet you guys would support moves to force all states to adopt gay marriage and change it yourselves?
 

jallman

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,915
Reaction score
11,283
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
George_Washington said:
lmao. I just got a hilarious image of Cuba Gooding Jr.'s gay role from the film Boat Trip when you just said that. Nevermind though.

Why do you and the majority of the gay community hate it when so called, "Christian Conservatives" want to change the constitution but yet you guys would support moves to force all states to adopt gay marriage and change it yourselves?
I dont agree with gay marriage at all. I want civil union that gives partnership rights to gay people who decide to make that commitment. Marriage carries a religious connotation to me that I cannot support.

As for "Christian Conservatives" who wish to change the Constitution to ban or criminalize equal participation in a state sanctioned institution...that is changing the constitution much more deeply. It is turning it from an instrument of protection into a tool of oppression. It is injecting an obligatory moral objection into the fabric of our legal structure and that is not the right of the government. It is especially not right that the government become the strong arm of a small group of spirited evangelicals.

I, in no way, think that the constitution should be changed. However, I do believe it needs to be clarified to bring equal protections and to send the message that the wall of separation, because it is beneficial to both government and religion, is never going to come down.
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
^
Maybe because the Constitution talks about things such as Equal protection under the law. Which is why the radical right is frantically trying to amend the constitution to get around the Constitution.
The proof is in the pudding. If such an amendment was ever successful it would be the first Amendment to take away rights secured by the Constitution.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Robodoon said:
Christians that is [sic] going along with Bush, I would have to wonder if that person is really A Christian. They are really no different then the Germans that followed Hitler.
Shame on you.
 

Korimyr the Rat

Baby Eating Monster
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
19,553
Reaction score
15,757
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I agree with the article quoted in the original post, that it is a dangerous thing that we have allowed the Republican party to portray itself as holding a monopoly on morality and Christian values-- and that we have mistaken the religious values of America for the basis of our secular government.

And, of course, it is always a dangerous thing when a nation follows a leader blindly. I am not accusing anyone here of doing so-- and, indeed, I can see moral justification for the war in Iraq, though I disagree with it-- but I think it is readily apparent that there is a large and vocal minority of American citizens who will not tolerate dissent or criticism of the President.

As Americans we must not allow this state of affairs to continue. Regardless of whether a Republican or a Democrat succeeds President Bush, we must again embrace our proud tradition of open and honest discourse and learn to view our political opponents as our countrymen instead of our enemies.

I think we also need to remove religion from politics; at no time in our history except the last twenty years has a candidate ever been able to win the Presidency on the basis that he is "more Christian" than his opponent. This claim is especially ludicrous when one considers that, depending on one's definition of Christian, we have either never had a non-Christian President, or have not had a non-Christian President for nearly two hundred years.
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
disneydude said:
^
Maybe because the Constitution talks about things such as Equal protection under the law. Which is why the radical right is frantically trying to amend the constitution to get around the Constitution.
The proof is in the pudding. If such an amendment was ever successful it would be the first Amendment to take away rights secured by the Constitution.
there is no Radical Right in our government. There is only Leftists and Radical leftists. People like Bush play Christian for Politics, he is neither a Conservative, nor A Christian nor a Capitalists..... Tell me who this radical right is that you keep citing...and I'll show you how you have been tricked.

You sound like you are in college....am I right?
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
KCConservative said:
Shame on you.
Same on Christian America for making the same mistakes as Christian Germany.
But once hitler came to power he killed more Christians then Jews.!!

but we aren't taught that today are we..?
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Korimyr the Rat said:
I agree with the article quoted in the original post, that it is a dangerous thing that we have allowed the Republican party to portray itself as holding a monopoly on morality and Christian values-- and that we have mistaken the religious values of America for the basis of our secular government.
Our government was never meant to be secular. We didn't claim "God given rights" by being secular.
Human Rights are not the same as "God given rights"

And, of course, it is always a dangerous thing when a nation follows a leader blindly. I am not accusing anyone here of doing so-- and, indeed, I can see moral justification for the war in Iraq, though I disagree with it-- but I think it is readily apparent that there is a large and vocal minority of American citizens who will not tolerate dissent or criticism of the President.
There was no justification for Iraq "NONE" ZERO! there is a reason, but it is not for the gain of the American people.
As Americans we must not allow this state of affairs to continue. Regardless of whether a Republican or a Democrat succeeds President Bush, we must again embrace our proud tradition of open and honest discourse and learn to view our political opponents as our countrymen instead of our enemies.
;)


I think we also need to remove religion from politics; at no time in our history except the last twenty years has a candidate ever been able to win the Presidency on the basis that he is "more Christian" than his opponent. This claim is especially ludicrous when one considers that, depending on one's definition of Christian, we have either never had a non-Christian President, or have not had a non-Christian President for nearly two hundred years.
GEORGE WASHINGTON
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
"It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe, without the agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being."
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."
James Madison
(Architect of the U.S. Constitution & Co-Author of the Federalist Papers)

"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."
"Religion [is] the basis and Foundation of Government."
"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage....Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe."
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
Dr. Jedidah Morse
"To the kindly influence of Christianity, we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoy. In proportion, as the genuine effects of Christianity are diminished in any nation, either through unbelief, or the corruption of its doctrines, or the neglect of its institutions; in the same proportion will the people of the nation recede from the blessings of genuine freedom and approximate the miseries of complete despotism." (1799)
William Penn
(Founder of Pennsylvania)

"If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him....Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."
Patrick Henry
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."

MORE HERE http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/founding.html#gw
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Shame on you.
Nothing relevant to say as usual, huh KC?

Anyways I don't agree that the US will ever emerge as the Fourth Reich. The only way that will happen is if all dissenting voices in the United States dropped dead instantly. I do believe though that our government is becoming progressivly more oppressive and I shudder to think of what might happen if we continue along this route.
 

Robodoon

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeport CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
FinnMacCool said:
Nothing relevant to say as usual, huh KC?

Anyways I don't agree that the US will ever emerge as the Fourth Reich. The only way that will happen is if all dissenting voices in the United States dropped dead instantly. I do believe though that our government is becoming progressivly more oppressive and I shudder to think of what might happen if we continue along this route.

At this point America is just a Hammer for the powers that be, we are just being used...but that is changing...right now the bias of the world is now being turned against us, for the final trick that will bring forth the horrible VISION! :(
 

Gaivs Ivlivs

Banned
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
George_Washington said:
Some of us actually use our minds and come to the rational conclusion that the war has been neccessary.
Let me guess, you also used your mind when you came up with your public execution/ beating people for adultry philosphy?
 

Tashah

wʜɪтe яussɪaи
DP Veteran
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
18,379
Reaction score
9,226
Location
ישראל • אמריקה
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Centrist
Gaivs Ivlivs said:
Let me guess, you also used your mind when you came up with your public execution/ beating people for adultry philosphy?
Can you please expound on this quote and provide a url/citation? Or is this strictly innuendo?
 

Gaivs Ivlivs

Banned
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Tashah said:
Can you please expound on this quote and provide a url/citation? Or is this strictly innuendo?
George Washington(the member of the board of course) has on several occasions expressed his desire to reinstate public executions and to create laws which punish people for adultry.

Are you asking for links to threads which show this? If you are then your just being difficult.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7594

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7598

Happy?
 
Top Bottom