Are We the Greatest, Richest Country in the World?

[phattonez]

I ran across this post recently:

Hmm... if capitalism died in 1981 then how are we (still?) the greatest, most powerful, richest country in the world?

And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.

"We"? Perhaps the country as a whole is wealthy, but we have a comparatively high homeless rate, one of the highest per capita debt levels, and a home ownership rate below most EU countries.


Here's the most damming evidence. Median wealth by country. The US is FAR behind other countries.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I find the US ranking compared to China very surprising. Does Taiwan and Hong Kong skew things that much in their favor?

 

[phattonez]

I find the US ranking compared to China very surprising. Does Taiwan and Hong Kong skew things that much in their favor?

I believe it's talking about just Taiwan, not mainland China.

Here is the 2017 data in map form.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

Remember what they say about waking sleep walkers....the fantasies of Americans die hard and usually violently.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

One, the scale only measures wealth, which is NOT the only indicator of 'greatness'.

I don't believe the graph. I know a lot of Australians as they come to Canada to improve their lot, armed with arguments like a nightclub cover fee of $125, prescription costs and wage freezes. Beer costs over $10 and the wages are on par with Canada.

I do not doubt how low the US is ranked as 99% of the country's wealth is held by less than 1% of the population and the level of poverty is rising.

The scale in vogue now is "livability" which factors in transportation, the arts, education,access to programs, health facilities, parks etc. and especially social safety net.

Traditionally, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Japan, Canada, Switzerland are in the top ten, as economic conditions vary year to year. To my knowledge the US has NEVER been in the top ten.

What other major indicator is used is health care, and there the US is ranked about 57th, well behind Cuba.

So, in the end, the US is a wonderful place to live if you're rich like Trump, and a **** hole for the poor.

BTW, each of the countries listed have very well carved in stone social policies to promote a middle class, which is eroding in the US.

as well as economic indicators like access to health etc., where Canada has been in the top five for at least the last 20 years and where the US never makes the list.

The other indicator I look at is community health

 

[jdog21]

I believe it's talking about just Taiwan, not mainland China.

Here is the 2017 data in map form.

I think the better measurement is at the extremes. Take the top 5 millions average and the bottom 5 millions average and compare to other countries. The country who has the rich people win and the country who has the richest poorest people win. And I think in that category the US is doing the best.

 

[phattonez]

I think the better measurement is at the extremes. Take the top 5 millions average and the bottom 5 millions average and compare to other countries. The country who has the rich people win and the country who has the richest poorest people win. And I think in that category the US is doing the best.

I wouldn't think so. The US has a Gini Index on par with South America. If anything this would make the US look even worse.

Of course if you're wealthy it's fantastic.

 

[Mr Person]

Rich, yes, but sorely failing to live up to our claimed principles (we always have). The city that wishes it were still on a hill. But the world changed around us, so we stopped being on one and merely started telling itself it was.

 

[Conaeolos]

Here is a more full chart with the 2018 numbers:
Wiki

Summed up the US is 5th by mean and 21st by median.

Older population will skew up: wiki

Private debts are a good thing to look at independantly: tradingeconomics

15.6 Millionaires and billions in the united states [1/20 americans]. Australia for example has less than 1/100. Opportunity is higher in america.

By state. US holds still holds top spots. Showing population and diveristy of economic region is a major factor to take into consideration.

...

 

[Mach]

I posted a similar graph in your other wealth distribution thread, some days back:
https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...butions-wealth-country-55.html#post1069567784

We have two political parties.

One entire political party has as it's overriding goal, to transfer money from the world, to the wealthiest Americans and corporations (including from everyone else in the U.S.), both in real terms (tax cuts) and no restrictions on outsouring, etc., and with loose restrictions and regulations on everything from environment, to health care, etc.

The other party, has a wide variety of goals, including government or subsidized health insurance/care, increasing tax progressiveness, and fighting for min wage, civil rights, education, regulating wall street more, the environment, etc.

Surprising right?

There are a lot of metrics you can look at, and most do have the U.S. below a wide variety of other nations on any measurable "goodness" stat.
We are big, and powerful, rich *as a nation* and have the largest and most advanced military in the world, and are a part of NATO, the most powerful military alliance in the world.

You won't like this, but as a nation, we're far more welcoming to the world than many other nations are, and our more widespread English language dissemination makes the U.S. a great, accepting place, for people from all walks of life. We do have a party that opposes that though...one of our few strengths.

In any case, politically this is purely a Republican issue. Republicans are the party that push the ever-increasing wage disparity. It's just a matter of priorities.
For the wealthy in the U.S., we are doing great. For everyone else, not nearly what it could be, and certainly nowhere near any high marks globally in similarly developed nations.

 

[phattonez]

Here is a more full chart with the 2018 numbers:
Wiki

Summed up the US is 5th by mean and 21st by median.

Older population will skew up: wiki

Private debts are a good thing to look at independantly: tradingeconomics

15.6 Millionaires and billions in the united states [1/20 americans]. Australia for example has less than 1/100. Opportunity is higher in america.

By state. US holds still holds top spots. Showing population and diveristy of economic region is a major factor to take into consideration.

...

A higher mean but lower median tells me that opportunity is lower in America. Most people aspire to (and have a decent possibility of getting to) a middle class lifestyle. Very few will ever reach the upper class. It tells me that there is lower opportunity to break into the middle class here, and that the wealthy are just very wealthy.

 

[Rich2018]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

Yay, the UK kicks Germany's ass !!!


Are you sure the convicts are the richest though ?

 

[phattonez]

In any case, politically this is purely a Republican issue. Republicans are the party that push the ever-increasing wage disparity. It's just a matter of priorities.
For the wealthy in the U.S., we are doing great. For everyone else, not nearly what it could be, and certainly nowhere near any high marks globally in similarly developed nations.

I hate to burst your bubble here, bud, but banks, finance institutions, and big corporations all supported Obama big time. Did he do anything to cut their profits? No, they soared to record highs during his presidency. Are these institutions on your side?

Give it up, man. The entire political establishment is against us. Establishment Democrats don't care about you, just like establishment Republicans don't care about me. These companies fund both sides.

 

[can2man]

I find the US ranking compared to China very surprising. Does Taiwan and Hong Kong skew things that much in their favor?

I agree even if Taiwan and Hong Kong are included no way that is accurate.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I believe it's talking about just Taiwan, not mainland China.

Here is the 2017 data in map form.

That would make more sense.

 

[can2man]

I believe it's talking about just Taiwan, not mainland China.

Here is the 2017 data in map form.

That makes sense.

 

[HumblePi]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

Think about this, 1/10th of 1% has the same wealth as 90% of America and 40% of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency. A schoolteacher earning $50k a year pays exactly the same in income tax that a person that inherits $500 million dollars. They buy yachts, airplanes paintings and bring in $50k a year in income doing some random work. Currently they get taxed exactly the same.

 

[Casca XV]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

Take out form the stats Illegal Alien's and American communities devastated by Leftist Democrat policies and there is little doubt we are #1.

 

[bongsaway]

One, the scale only measures wealth, which is NOT the only indicator of 'greatness'.

I don't believe the graph. I know a lot of Australians as they come to Canada to improve their lot, armed with arguments like a nightclub cover fee of $125, prescription costs and wage freezes. Beer costs over $10 and the wages are on par with Canada.

I do not doubt how low the US is ranked as 99% of the country's wealth is held by less than 1% of the population and the level of poverty is rising.

The scale in vogue now is "livability" which factors in transportation, the arts, education,access to programs, health facilities, parks etc. and especially social safety net.

Traditionally, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Japan, Canada, Switzerland are in the top ten, as economic conditions vary year to year. To my knowledge the US has NEVER been in the top ten.

What other major indicator is used is health care, and there the US is ranked about 57th, well behind Cuba.

So, in the end, the US is a wonderful place to live if you're rich like Trump, and a **** hole for the poor.

BTW, each of the countries listed have very well carved in stone social policies to promote a middle class, which is eroding in the US.

as well as economic indicators like access to health etc., where Canada has been in the top five for at least the last 20 years and where the US never makes the list.

The other indicator I look at is community health

Were you aware republicans never vote against their own best interests? Just ask them, or better yet, read their comments.

 

[Mach]

I hate to burst your bubble here, bud, but banks, finance institutions, and big corporations all supported Obama big time. Did he do anything to cut their profits? No, they soared to record highs during his presidency. Are these institutions on your side?
Give it up, man. The entire political establishment is against us. Establishment Democrats don't care about you, just like establishment Republicans don't care about me. These companies fund both sides.

You aren't keeping your eye on the ball. What legislation/platform do they support with that money?

Be brave Phattonez, admit that Republicans as their first, and only big legislative effort, have decreased taxes permanently on corporations, and lowered taxes on the ultra-wealthy. That's federal taxes, for the nation.
And where would Democrats push for taxes Phat? And if they did push for more progressivity in taxes, you must also admit that Republicans would oppose it.
Given that taxes are a key enabler of our wage disparity in the U.S., (and as a result, one of the best ways to deal with it), why are you acting like this isn't reality?

It's bewildering.

Name your high level, large-scale fixes for wealth disparity, and let's see which party best aligns with it. If you can't talk politics, then don't bother talking, because politics is how things become reality in the United States Government.

 

[Casca XV]

I ran across this post recently:



And I wanted to look up some statistics to see how valid this claim was. What I found was shocking.



Frankly, I don't know if there is a response you can make to that last image. Typical American wealth is behind what you see in advanced European economies, advanced Asian economies, but also European basket cases! This is a big gap in many cases. While our median wealth is around $50k, France has a median wealth greater than $90k, so does Canada.


So taken as a whole our nation may be the richest, but for most Americans this certainly isn't the case. They're not experiencing the benefits of this economy.

Make of this what you will, but I hope that this dispels the notion that we are the greatest economy ever and everything is just grand! It's not, and I'm sick of "CAPITALISM FTW!!!" tier arguments.

The fact that this data is from dead center of the Obama era does give it some creditability.

 

[Mach]

Take out form the stats Illegal Alien's and American communities devastated by Leftist Democrat policies and there is little doubt we are #1.

That's why you can back your claim with facts? Can you cite a real source and facts to back your claim?

I doubt everything you post, especially when you don't include any sourcing/evidence ot back your outrageous claims.

 

[phattonez]

Think about this, 1/10th of 1% has the same wealth as 90% of America and 40% of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency. A schoolteacher earning $50k a year pays exactly the same in income tax that a person that inherits $500 million dollars. They buy yachts, airplanes paintings and bring in $50k a year in income doing some random work. Currently they get taxed exactly the same.

They certainly wouldn't work. They just collect interest along the way and pay taxes on that. There's a lot of unearned income in our system, and it's nothing more than a wealth transfer from poor to rich.

 

[phattonez]

Take out form the stats Illegal Alien's and American communities devastated by Leftist Democrat policies and there is little doubt we are #1.

What communities have been devastated more than the rural ones? They have no jobs, no hope, are addicted to drugs, and get laughed at by our cultural elites.

I agree with you that immigration is contributing to the problem, but you're not in reality if you think that most Americans are doing well. They aren't. The town where my grandfather grew up is dead. This isn't an exception in Middle America. This is the rule.

 

[bongsaway]

Think about this, 1/10th of 1% has the same wealth as 90% of America and 40% of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency. A schoolteacher earning $50k a year pays exactly the same in income tax that a person that inherits $500 million dollars. They buy yachts, airplanes paintings and bring in $50k a year in income doing some random work. Currently they get taxed exactly the same.

But, but, but the rich pay forty five percent of all income tax in america. Which does not mean any individual pays forty five percent like the right tries to infer. It means the uber wealthy and big corporations might not pay a penny into the treasury. So don't go messing with the job creators, you might one day need a job at walmart.