• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are we still a Constitutional Democracy? Are we to allow Trump to destroy it?

Luckyone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
24,131
Reaction score
11,122
Location
Miami, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

In the last 2 weeks, Trump has additionally attacked our Constitution and our laws by:

1)
Trump Has Triggered a 'Constitutional Crisis' by Refusing Congressional Subpoenas
Click to expand...

2)
If Trump is not forced to follow the Constitution and the laws of our nation he will set a precedent for the future that will allow anyone to do the same and get away with it.

Are we still a Constitutional Democracy? Will we allow Trump to break the Constitution and our laws and turn us into an autocratic ruled nation or a dictatorship? Will the Republicans defend the Constitution that they so often quote, or kowtow to Trump's desires? Is Trump above the law?
 
Last edited:

Trump was elected via the people through an electoral college. The answer is yes. If you don't like it write to your local congressmen and ask for a constitutional amendment.
 
Bucky said:
Trump was elected via the people through an electoral college. The answer is yes. If you don't like it write to your local congressmen and ask for a constitutional amendment.
Click to expand...

This OP was not about the election but what the President has done since the election. Does his being elected mean he is "above the law"?
 
Last edited:
Did the Constitution collapse when Obama claimed executive privilege to prevent people in his administration from testifying or to prevent the release of emails. Hell...we even managed to survive his Justice Departments granting of immunity to key witnesses while they destroyed subpoenaed evidence. And I bet you didnt say a ****ing word. EHll...Id bet you were one of the people cheering on their actions.
 

Probably nothing is a greater threat to democracy, when faced with a president who refuses all cooperation with Congress and expresses confidence that he will defeat them through "my judges", than the rationalization that "everybody does it."
 

Does what Obama did or did not do make what Trump is doing to break our laws and our Constitution the right thing to do?

Are you the kind of hypocrite that criticizes the action of others but then supports the same kind of action by your idol?
 

Lovely hypocrisy being pointed out.
 
eohrnberger said:
Lovely hypocrisy being pointed out.
Click to expand...

He used assumptions since he does not know what I supported and did not support of Obama. Nonetheless, talking about "lovely hypocrisy", is it not that when someone criticizes what another president did but then supports the same actions in Trump? Is not that the height of hypocrisy?

If he thought that Obama did wrong, why does he not also think that Trump is doing the same or worse (given that he only gave 1 example on Obama but I gave 12)?
 
Luckyone said:
Does what Obama did or did not do make what Trump is doing to break our laws and our Constitution the right thing to do?

Are you the kind of hypocrite that criticizes the action of others but then supports the same kind of action by your idol?
Click to expand...

so you applaud it when your guy is in office, and squeal at the top of your lungs when your guy isnt in office

can you say hypocrite?
 
It's not that the Trump supporters truly care about the Constitution. It's that they don't care about accountability or personal responsibility. And they know they can get away with it because the DNC is too limpwristed to go through with holding the GOP accountable
 
trixare4kids said:
You might want to read the comment section for your second source. It could very well even describe the hysteria behind this thread.
Enjoy!
Click to expand...

Is it not a "Constitutional Crisis" no matter who said it? By law, Congress has the right of subpoena anyone they believe has something to say. Refusing to accept the legal subpoena is against the Constitution and the law, isn't it?

Additionally, it certainly would not be a Republican saying it is a Constitutional Crisis because all Republicans support Trump and if they said anything like that they would be ostracized by Trump and no Republicans wants that. As such, it is the Democrats or anyone that upholds the Constitution that has to bring it up. One question, do you uphold the Constitution or are you one of those that uphold it when it is to your advantage and not when it isn't?
 

If trump’s supporters don’t care about accountability or personal responsibility, then they won’t mind if Democrats refuse to carry out his demands.
 
gdgyva said:
so you applaud it when your guy is in office, and squeal at the top of your lungs when your guy isnt in office

can you say hypocrite?
Click to expand...

Since your post is a personal attack, you need to prove that I supported Obama on anything that broke the law or went against the Constitution. If you can't, your post is a POS.
 

So...someone is attacked and, when they try to defend themselves, it's now their fault?

You probably approve of neighbors suing neighbors over stupid ****...and you'd call the victim a criminal for defending himself in a court of law.

Dismissed.
 

When obama whipped out his phone and pen did you write any posts about it?
 


It’s kind of funny how trump’s defenders lecture us about how they care about constitutional principles when out of power yet they remain silent whenever constitutional principles are violated when they are in power.

If these conservatives truly believed in constitutional principles, they would have to be willing to sacrifice being in power. But it seems being in power is all that really matters
 
AlphaOmega said:
When obama whipped out his phone and pen did you write any posts about it?
Click to expand...

I was not on this board at the time so I could not have done it either way.

Nonetheless, I have no idols like most Trump supporters do. I respect people that try to do the right thing all the time and in my opinion Obama tried to do the right thing most of the time. I have no respect for Trump for the exact opposite reason, he never tries to do the right thing for others, only the right thing for himself.

Then again, no human is perfect and that means that mistakes will be made and wrong judgment on actions as well. The key is "intent" and moral compass. If a person intends to respect the Constitution and the laws of the United States but on some occasion, either by mistake or by intent, happens to break one that can be forgivable as the guideline should be his previous track record (much like what happens in a court of law). On the other side if there is a pattern of intent to break the law and/or the Constitution occurs (as is the case with Trump and the OP proves it), then you are dealing with a criminal and not some form of incompetency and the criminal should be prosecuted to the height of the law and the punishment that goes along with it.

You failed to make your invalid point but it does show your inability to be fair or to understand what intent and criminality is.
 
Last edited:

Lovely hypocrisy is blatantly clear.

One of the things Creepy Uncle Joe said recently was that there wasn't even a sniff of scandal in Obama's administration. This is already an often parroted meme across the population of the leftists and the media (although I repeat myself). It's not factual in the least, yet the leftist media push that narrative onto all but willing leftist audience willing to swallow it without any thought.


Yet look at the media's and the left's response to Trump, i.e. a non-leftist, and you'd think the entire universe was coming to an cataclysmic end.

It would appear that you are among those who are purporting such nonsense. :shrug:

Well, so much for consistency where consistency is greatly needed.

It'd be fair to observe that Obama's administration was the consistently the least transparent administration, where as the Trump administration has been consistently the most transparent administration.

Of course, I suspect that you'll find fault with this assessment as well. :shrug: :roll:
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Trying to play bothsiderism is meaningless when both sides are already in a septic tank.
Click to expand...
Fair.
And it does nothing to prove that conservatives care about constitutional principles.
Click to expand...
Pretty clear that conservative principals do include constitutional principals, but that's not the case with the left.
Why are the left constantly wanting to amend the constitution (i.e. revising the principals on which the nation s founded)?

Principals are principals, and need not be amended.
 

I would be willing to discuss the Obama issues at another time. Nonetheless, at this time Obama is no longer a factor as he is not able to make any decisions for or against the country and none of his believers are in the administration either.

At this time, this nation is going through a Constitutional crisis that is being caused by Trump and that is what needs to be addressed at this time.

It does seem to me that since you cannot (or don't want) to address the problem, you deflect to another topic where you feel you have a valid gripe and have proof of. Nonetheless, that is called "running away from the problem that is facing our nation" and that makes you simply a critic but certainly not a patriot (other than to your idol - Trump). If you truly cared about your nation, you would address the issue and attempt to find a solution. Deflection is a defensive maneuver and points to the person being more of a coward than a patriot and solution-seeker. It really talks badly about you.
 

The United States of America is a Democracy - Fact or Myth?

snippets from a very long and very informative article.

Is the United States of America a Democracy or a Republic?

The United States is a Constitutional Federal Republic (a federation of states with a Representative Democracy). Despite a strong democratic tradition, the U.S. is not a “Direct Democracy“ (where people vote on laws directly*)

FACT: When Plato and Aristotle first gave names to the forms, they specifically used Democracy and Aristocracy to denote who rules. Since all future political philosophers have used their naming, the distinction is important. When we don’t stress the idea that the U.S. is a Republic (here meaning a sovereign law-abiding mixed-constitution “rooted in an aristocracy”), it makes aspects of the Constitution like the Electoral College very confusing. Yet, when we stress the term Republic too much, it makes it seem like the Republican party is inherently more American or that they hold only Republican principles, but all of those ideas are pretty far from the truth. If you want to know more about that, see the U.S. party names explained.

Conclusion

The United States of America is a Constitutional Federal Republic, not a Direct Democracy (which is the traditional meaning of the term Democracy).

The simplest way to describe America, is a “mixed constitution” or “mixed government rooted in a Republic”. For more detail you can say, “America is a mixed-market Federal Republic with strong Democratic principles, and Freedom of religion, where all people are guaranteed the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, free speech, a free press, and the right to defend those ideals against invaders foreign and domestic”. In other words, America is not meant to be overtaken by mob rule or oligarchs.

The 1st amendment gives us the technology to protect the Republic from mob rule and oligarchs, the 2nd amendment is only a last resort reserved for foreign threats, when the scales become unbalanced we will find our solution in the wisdom of our forefathers (not in corporate funded soundbites). If you think you’ve found the answer in the extreme of a political party, think again. There is a war of information going on, always has been, always will be, but look close at the history of western democracy and you’ll find the right role models in great men like Plato, Aristotle, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, and more.

Roseann
 



If conservatives really cared about principles, they would have remembered one very important one: upholding the rule of law.


If conservatives really cared about upholding the rule of law, none of trump’s actions would be tolerated and he would have been subjected to impeachment. If conservatives truely care about constitutional principles, then why did they elect a man who openly acts in contempt of constitutional principles?
 

You should call it a “serious” Constitutional Crisis. A few more adjectives always help to create a bit more drama.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…