Are we ready for another Contract with America?

[liblady]

@mellie you do know that Obama has proposed that only the top bracket tax cuts be phased out, and that the tax cuts in the lower brackets be made permanent right? This is what I am talking about, the constant belief that Obama is going to punish the middle class and poor.

once again mellie skips out when asked to defend her position.

 

[ricksfolly]

I believe the government already has a contract, The Constitution.

Not contracts as they are viewed today. Too indistinct and not enough specific detail for this time and place. Self evident truth, for example, really has no judicial meaning, nor logic for that matter.

Take things as they are, not as they could or should be.

ricksfolly

 

[cpwill]

@mellie you do know that Obama has proposed that only the top bracket tax cuts be phased out, and that the tax cuts in the lower brackets be made permanent right? This is what I am talking about, the constant belief that Obama is going to punish the middle class and poor.

oh. whew. okay. i could have sworn there were a bunch of taxes in that obammacare thingy, or that small business owners had to report their earnings as income (thus putting them over the 250,000 level, despite what they may 'keep' in evil, greedy profit), or that those same small businesses were the kinds of places most likely to create new jobs for a middle / poor class in the midst of historic unemployment, or that the average retiree is going to require capital gains over the course of a lifetime in order to supprt retirement come the (inevitable, soon) collapse of the entitlement system, and so forth.

whew, i'm glad that none of those things are true. Obama has figured out how to magically only effect one segment of the economy! truly he can build up the wage earner by tearing down the wage giver!!!
All Praise He Who Is So Wise And Fair Speaking, Post Racial, Post Ideological, and Sort Of Like God. :good_job:

 

[Josie]

once again mellie skips out when asked to defend her position.

Gosh, I'm so sorry I can't be here 24/7 to humor you. I'm so sorry that I had to mow my yard, pull the weeds, stain the deck, help my mother, pay some bills, take a shower twice....

I'm tired, sweaty, sunburnt and my back is killing me. I won't be continuing this discussion until I have the time and energy.

eace

 

[LizardofOz]

oh. whew. okay. i could have sworn there were a bunch of taxes in that obammacare thingy, or that small business owners had to report their earnings as income (thus putting them over the 250,000 level, despite what they may 'keep' in evil, greedy profit), or that those same small businesses were the kinds of places most likely to create new jobs for a middle / poor class in the midst of historic unemployment, or that the average retiree is going to require capital gains over the course of a lifetime in order to supprt retirement come the (inevitable, soon) collapse of the entitlement system, and so forth.

whew, i'm glad that none of those things are true. Obama has figured out how to magically only effect one segment of the economy! truly he can build up the wage earner by tearing down the wage giver!!!
All Praise He Who Is So Wise And Fair Speaking, Post Racial, Post Ideological, and Sort Of Like God. :good_job:

You know that is an interesting point you bring there. Just for something to chew on, the average CEO wage against employee in the 1950s was 60 to 1. The average now? 700 to 1. But hey man I get it, you think the trinkle down thing works.

Here are some sources for you:
EXECUTIVE PAY: Up, Up, and Away: Timeline
BW Online | April 15, 2002 | Executive Pay
The Great CEO Pay Heist Executive compensation has become highway robbery--we all know that. But how did it happen? And why can't we stop it? The answers lie in the perverse interaction of CEOs, boards, consultants, even the feds. - June 25, 2001

 

[liblady]

oh. whew. okay. i could have sworn there were a bunch of taxes in that obammacare thingy, or that small business owners had to report their earnings as income (thus putting them over the 250,000 level, despite what they may 'keep' in evil, greedy profit), or that those same small businesses were the kinds of places most likely to create new jobs for a middle / poor class in the midst of historic unemployment, or that the average retiree is going to require capital gains over the course of a lifetime in order to supprt retirement come the (inevitable, soon) collapse of the entitlement system, and so forth.

whew, i'm glad that none of those things are true. Obama has figured out how to magically only effect one segment of the economy! truly he can build up the wage earner by tearing down the wage giver!!!
All Praise He Who Is So Wise And Fair Speaking, Post Racial, Post Ideological, and Sort Of Like God. :good_job:

please enlighten me.....why shouldn't small business have to report their earnings as income?

 

[Gill]

please enlighten me.....why shouldn't small business have to report their earnings as income?

hmmm, maybe because business income does not directly benefit the owner all of the time. Do you think that every penney a small business owner makes goes into their pockets ??

 

[liblady]

hmmm, maybe because business income does not directly benefit the owner all of the time. Do you think that every penney a small business owner makes goes into their pockets ??

um, gill, do you know what we are discussing here? it's closing a loophole. do you have any idea how a business operates?

One provision of the bill is designed to help curb tax abuses by small business owners whose companies are organized as S corporations. The way things are currently structured, many of these small business firms have been able to avoid Social Security and Medicare taxes ("payroll taxes") they will likely now have to pay.

Small-Business Owners: Prepare For A Tax Hike - Forbes.com

 

[Gill]

um, gill, do you know what we are discussing here? it's closing a loophole. do you have any idea how a business operates?


Small-Business Owners: Prepare For A Tax Hike - Forbes.com

ummm, lib.... I've owned a business since 1991, so I think I do know the subject we are discussing and have a bit of an idea how a business operates.

Just curious... how many years have you owned a business with employees??

 

[liblady]

ummm, lib.... I've owned a business since 1991, so I think I do know the subject we are discussing and have a bit of an idea how a business operates.

Just curious... how many years have you owned a business with employees??

then why didn't you know what i was referring to? :roll:

 

[Gill]

then why didn't you know what i was referring to? :roll:

simple. you were talking about fica and medicare tax and I was referring to income tax.

 

[liblady]

simple. you were talking about fica and medicare tax and I was referring to income tax.

oh, i see, you had no idea what was in the bill, and yet you own a small business. good to know.

 

[MaggieD]

You know that is an interesting point you bring there. Just for something to chew on, the average CEO wage against employee in the 1950s was 60 to 1. The average now? 700 to 1. But hey man I get it, you think the trinkle down thing works.

Here are some sources for you:
EXECUTIVE PAY: Up, Up, and Away: Timeline
BW Online | April 15, 2002 | Executive Pay
The Great CEO Pay Heist Executive compensation has become highway robbery--we all know that. But how did it happen? And why can't we stop it? The answers lie in the perverse interaction of CEOs, boards, consultants, even the feds. - June 25, 2001

What's the difference? Everybody's paying taxes on what they're earning....either at the corporate or the individual level. If a Board of Directors is so enamored with a CEO they're willing to pay what you consider an outrageous sum, what difference does it make to you? When did we turn into the Soviet Union?

 

[Gill]

oh, i see, you had no idea what was in the bill, and yet you own a small business. good to know.

Oh I see.. the only affect of this bill is to prevent FICA and Medicare tax fraud ???? Have YOU read the bill. Never mind.. already know the answer.

This bill is a total grab bag of goodies that the dems hope will give them enough votes to prevent a total meltdown in November. They would bring in more tax money if they got rid of the Union's and other special interest groups' ability to not participate in social security and medicare.

By the way, still waiting on a description of your vast business ownership experience.

 

[liblady]

Oh I see.. the only affect of this bill is to prevent FICA and Medicare tax fraud ???? Have YOU read the bill. Never mind.. already know the answer.

This bill is a total grab bag of goodies that the dems hope will give them enough votes to prevent a total meltdown in November. They would bring in more tax money if they got rid of the Union's and other special interest groups' ability to not participate in social security and medicare.

By the way, still waiting on a description of your vast business ownership experience.

gill...you had no idea what we were discussing, and now you attempt a lame diversion to the subject of my experience? too funny. and btw, gill, do you think all unions don't particiapte in SS? wth? is that yet another area of your expertise?

come on, enlighten me. i'm waiting.

 

[Gill]

gill...you had no idea what we were discussing, and now you attempt a lame diversion to the subject of my experience? too funny. and btw, gill, do you think all unions don't particiapte in SS? wth? is that yet another area of your expertise?

come on, enlighten me. i'm waiting.

Deflecting again I see. Come on, don't be embarrassed. Your lack of experience in business won't stop you from posting, it will only confirm your lack of credibility.

 

[liblady]

Deflecting again I see. Come on, don't be embarrassed. Your lack of experience in business won't stop you from posting, it will only confirm your lack of credibility.

post to someone who doesn't see through you. your argument is typical of those who can't debate with facts.

 

[MaggieD]

Oh I see.. the only affect of this bill is to prevent FICA and Medicare tax fraud ???? Have YOU read the bill. Never mind.. already know the answer.

This bill is a total grab bag of goodies that the dems hope will give them enough votes to prevent a total meltdown in November. They would bring in more tax money if they got rid of the Union's and other special interest groups' ability to not participate in social security and medicare.

By the way, still waiting on a description of your vast business ownership experience.

Some of the goodies:

The legislation would encourage investment in small businesses by allowing investors to exclude 100 percent of the gains from the sale of certain small business stock from their income for tax purposes if the stock is held for more than five years. This policy would help small business owners access more private capital to finance an expansion and hire new workers.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The legislation would double the amount of start-up expenditures that may be deducted by someone starting a small business. It would also allow self-employed individuals to deduct health insurance costs for purposes of paying the self-employment tax.

The legislation would also establish a State Small Business Credit Initiative to provide $900 million in grants to existing successful state small business programs that help private lenders extend more credit to small businesses.

In addition, the legislation would establish a Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion to provide capital investments to small community banks to increase small business lending. The fund would be limited to only the smallest banks, those that hold less than $10 billion in assets, and the performance-based program would incentivize only those lenders that extend new credit by decreasing the dividend rate banks pay as they increase lending. More here: Senate Unveils Small Business Jobs Act

You're right. Goodie bag. (This is the Senate bill.) And, for sure, their definition of "small business" doesn't begin to approximate Main Street's definition.

 

[liblady]

Some of the goodies:

The legislation would encourage investment in small businesses by allowing investors to exclude 100 percent of the gains from the sale of certain small business stock from their income for tax purposes if the stock is held for more than five years. This policy would help small business owners access more private capital to finance an expansion and hire new workers.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The legislation would double the amount of start-up expenditures that may be deducted by someone starting a small business. It would also allow self-employed individuals to deduct health insurance costs for purposes of paying the self-employment tax.

The legislation would also establish a State Small Business Credit Initiative to provide $900 million in grants to existing successful state small business programs that help private lenders extend more credit to small businesses.

In addition, the legislation would establish a Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion to provide capital investments to small community banks to increase small business lending. The fund would be limited to only the smallest banks, those that hold less than $10 billion in assets, and the performance-based program would incentivize only those lenders that extend new credit by decreasing the dividend rate banks pay as they increase lending. More here: Senate Unveils Small Business Jobs Act

You're right. Goodie bag. (This is the Senate bill.) And, for sure, their definition of "small business" doesn't begin to approximate Main Street's definition.

you have issues with these provisions?

 

[Gill]

Some of the goodies:

The legislation would encourage investment in small businesses by allowing investors to exclude 100 percent of the gains from the sale of certain small business stock from their income for tax purposes if the stock is held for more than five years. This policy would help small business owners access more private capital to finance an expansion and hire new workers.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years. Small businesses would also be able to count the general business credits against the Alternative Minimum Tax, freeing up capital for expansion and job growth.

The legislation would double the amount of start-up expenditures that may be deducted by someone starting a small business. It would also allow self-employed individuals to deduct health insurance costs for purposes of paying the self-employment tax.

The legislation would also establish a State Small Business Credit Initiative to provide $900 million in grants to existing successful state small business programs that help private lenders extend more credit to small businesses.

In addition, the legislation would establish a Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion to provide capital investments to small community banks to increase small business lending. The fund would be limited to only the smallest banks, those that hold less than $10 billion in assets, and the performance-based program would incentivize only those lenders that extend new credit by decreasing the dividend rate banks pay as they increase lending. More here: Senate Unveils Small Business Jobs Act

You're right. Goodie bag. (This is the Senate bill.) And, for sure, their definition of "small business" doesn't begin to approximate Main Street's definition.

And don't forget tax subsidies for hybrid vehicles, extension of the homebuyers tax credit, and .... most importantly, sets standards for the installation windows in homes.

 

[Gill]

post to someone who doesn't see through you. your argument is typical of those who can't debate with facts.

surrender accepted.

 

[liblady]

surrender accepted.

lol......having to claim victory, big guy? why would that be? saving the post to show your mommy?

 

[Gill]

lol......having to claim victory, big guy? why would that be? saving the post to show your mommy?

Didn't have to claim it, you handed it to me on a silver platter.

 

[MaggieD]

you have issues with these provisions?

Some of them

The legislation would encourage investment in small businesses by allowing investors to exclude 100 percent of the gains from the sale of certain small business stock from their income for tax purposes if the stock is held for more than five years.

I'd like to know what these "certain small business stocks" on which 100% of the gains are excluded from income tax. Real nice perk.

The bill would also reduce the tax burden for small businesses by allowing them to carry back general business tax credits to offset their tax burdens from the previous five years.

I think this is unprecedented.

The legislation would also establish a State Small Business Credit Initiative to provide $900 million in grants to existing successful state small business programs that help private lenders extend more credit to small businesses.

$900 million in GRANTS? Why? This doesn't even make any sense to me. "....that help lenders extend more credit...." Huh? This is another way of saying, "Go ahead and lend....if you don't get paid back, we've got this grant for you."

In addition, the legislation would establish a Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion to provide capital investments to small community banks to increase small business lending.

This Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion? The fund will undoubtedly set standards that are much more lax than normal lending. That's part of the problem...lending money to people who can't pay it back.

Banks have PLENTY of money to lend. There's no shortage. There's a shortage of companies who are expanding and WANTING to borrow money. Throwing more of our money at this problem is not the way to grow business. Getting more money into the hands of Main Street is the way to grow the economy.

 

[liblady]

Some of them


I'd like to know what these "certain small business stocks" on which 100% of the gains are excluded from income tax. Real nice perk.


I think this is unprecedented.


$900 million in GRANTS? Why? This doesn't even make any sense to me. "....that help lenders extend more credit...." Huh? This is another way of saying, "Go ahead and lend....if you don't get paid back, we've got this grant for you."


This Small Business Lending Fund of $30 billion? The fund will undoubtedly set standards that are much more lax than normal lending. That's part of the problem...lending money to people who can't pay it back.

Banks have PLENTY of money to lend. There's no shortage. There's a shortage of companies who are expanding and WANTING to borrow money. Throwing more of our money at this problem is not the way to grow business. Getting more money into the hands of Main Street is the way to grow the economy.

i work for a bank, and not as a teller. liquidity is a real problem right now, and not just for my bank. and btw, who do you think this bill is FOR? you have an issue with cutting taxes for small business? seriously?