Are we alone in the universe?

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, so that gives us 2 questions:

1. Do you believe we are alone in the universe? My answer: No, statistically it looks inevitable that we are not.
2. Do you believe that Earth has ever been visited by aliens? My answer: No, I certainly don't believe that has happened because I can't see any evidence of it, and I think that we would have such evidence had it happened.

I understand now and I think I missed your original point.

My apologies.

 

[grip]

It would be ironic if the distance between planets supporting life forms could never be traveled? And I mean no mount of advanced intelligence can ever find a work around for the "warp drive" needed for solar system travel because the physics of the universe makes it impossible.

The closest star to our Sun, is 4.24 light-years away. The fastest unmanned space craft traveled 157,000 mph. At that rate, it would take 17,000 earth years to travel 4 light years. So if you were a Mesopotamian farmer in 6,500 BC, you'd still be 8500 years away from your destination. Let's increase the speed dramatically to millions of miles per hour, provided that a navigation system could be developed to avoid objects and make course changes. Then add a spaceship with either a suspended animation system or capable of supporting many generations of people. It's still a reach without some sort of advanced space/time travel.

Though where there's a will there's usually a way, unless we start to devolve or self destruct.

Though, I don't think any alien civilization capable of reaching our planet would need our resources for the simple fact that there are many, many exoplanets available besides ours for those purposes. And they would probably be so advanced that they could replicate any amount of resources needed from basic and abundant elements. We're probably getting close to that ourselves.

 

[lizzie]

From all over the planet and even before man had anything that could fly. Even the main religions of today all have writings concerning what they described as the Gods in Flying Chariots. Seems there is evidence suggesting such from all over the planet and in different places in time. As if we were being told from the very beginning.

Thanks for the reminder. Some of the old religious paintings which contain images, which look like "ufo's" really do spark my interest and curiosity.

 

[joko104]

There are 100 Billion stars in the Milky Way (our galaxy). Our galaxy is one of a cluster of 100 Billion galaxies. There are 100 Billion clusters of galaxies.

And it all exists just for us to look at on romantic evenings. Obviously. More specifically, 100% of it all has existed specifically to lead to this moment of my posting this message.

:thumbs:

 

[joko104]

One of light's greatest mysteries, eh?

It's kind of hard to fathom just how big are galaxy is. 200 Billion Stars. That's 200,000,000,000. If each star just had two planets orbiting around it, that's 400,000,000,000 planets. Given the chances, I wouldn't be surprised to find other life in the universe.

No, it's much bigger than that. Very much so.

 

[Jredbaron96]

No, it's much bigger than that. Very much so.

What is, the number of stars of planets?

 

[MMC]

It would be ironic if the distance between planets supporting life forms could never be traveled? And I mean no mount of advanced intelligence can ever find a work around for the "warp drive" needed for solar system travel because the physics of the universe makes it impossible.

The closest star to our Sun, is 4.24 light-years away. The fastest unmanned space craft traveled 157,000 mph. At that rate, it would take 17,000 earth years to travel 4 light years. So if you were a Mesopotamian farmer in 6,500 BC, you'd still be 8500 years away from your destination. Let's increase the speed dramatically to millions of miles per hour, provided that a navigation system could be developed to avoid objects and make course changes. Then add a spaceship with either a suspended animation system or capable of supporting many generations of people. It's still a reach without some sort of advanced space/time travel.

Though where there's a will there's usually a way, unless we start to devolve or self destruct.

Though, I don't think any alien civilization capable of reaching our planet would need our resources for the simple fact that there are many, many exoplanets available besides ours for those purposes. And they would probably be so advanced that they could replicate any amount of resources needed from basic and abundant elements. We're probably getting close to that ourselves.

Heya Grip. :2wave: What about worm-holes? String Theory? Time Travel?

 

[MMC]

Thanks for the reminder. Some of the old religious paintings which contain images, which look like "ufo's" really do spark my interest and curiosity.

Not only religious Liz.....even Tribal as in Cro Magnum and Neanderthal. Cave painting and drawings. Then carvings in all kinds of stone and metals.

The only thing missing is one landing here and telling someone to take-em to our Leaders.

Otherwise again all forms of Military have reported UFO's or USO's. We are not talking about people tripping out over a stealth Bomber or fighter, some Satellite never seen before. The only reason Governments wont Officially say they exist. Is to say they cannot control their air space and keep their country safe. To admit we cant catch them or bring one down. Would be detrimental to a country and its National and Physical Security.

 

[Captain Adverse]

The real question is: What is more likely, that they're hostile, or that they're friendly?

Stephen Hawking believes they're more likely to be hostile, and I think I mostly agree. Our world is beautiful and full of resources. Any alien race that makes it to earth will be extremely advanced and likely require resources.

I tend to agree with Mr. Hawking. There are all sorts of possibilities out there but I discount ones where a freindly alien intelligence would seek an encounter. I figure that any alien race so advanced that it has achieved benevolence would also have the intelligence NOT to make themselves known to us. They would be aware that even a benevolent contact would disrupt our development, much like the social policy behind Star Trek's "Prime Directive."

On the other hand, a race that would seek to make contact would also likely be seeking advantage, similar to the conquistadores of Old Spain. In the case of such a race I would not put it past them to send scouting parties from time to time to check on our level of technological advancement. In such a case, the alleged crash which is the basis for the Area 51 legend is quite possible.

So I don't agree that we have not been visited. I think it's entirely possible, and if so we should be expecting an invasion force any decade now.

 

[MMC]

Here is Kaku on String Theory.

 

[hfd]

If aliens exist and have the capability to visit our planet and are hostile why haven't they demonstrated that hostility by now? If they needed our resources why haven't the simply overrun all earthly authority? But to answer the question, no I'm not alone. I live with my wife and dog.

 

[calamity]

Don't know.

I will say that if aliens exist, one could be sitting right beside me/you right at this moment and we wouldn't even know about it....

After all, if they are light years ahead of us from a technological standpoint, they would have the ability to remain invisible and unheard....

Sobering thought, if you ask me.

Opinions?

If we are alone, I'd be very surprised. If we are being visited, I'd be even more surprised though.

 

[MMC]

If aliens exist and have the capability to visit our planet and are hostile why haven't they demonstrated that hostility by now? If they needed our resources why haven't the simply overrun all earthly authority? But to answer the question, no I'm not alone. I live with my wife and dog.

There could be a host of scientific reasons as to why they haven't. Even being superior there could be some sort of bacteria that exists here wherein they cannot be exposed to it. Or some virus that if it got back to them could wipe them out. Also even if they were hostile and Superior. Doesn't mean they wouldn't take casualties.

One can have all the gold and riches in the world in front of them.....but if it is deadly to touch or be around. Then what good is it?

 

[Captain Adverse]

If aliens exist and have the capability to visit our planet and are hostile why haven't they demonstrated that hostility by now? If they needed our resources why haven't the simply overrun all earthly authority? But to answer the question, no I'm not alone. I live with my wife and dog.

There are lots of possible reasons. Perhaps they haven't been able to achieve faster than light travel. Even at close to light speeds it would take a long time to travel between star systems. They may have sent scouts out to find life then report back, sending a series of them like pulses, each arriving at a later time than the one prior. Meanwhile, once the first scout managed to return and report back they set up an invasion fleet and sent it out. Unfortunately, this fleet would be geared toward technology more advanced than whatever era that first scout reported. By the time they arrive they might find we have speedily advanced beyond their expectations and they are striving to either upgrade or wait for follow-on forces with new technology. There's actually a literary science fiction series based upon that idea, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it or the title.

Or, lets say they have faster than light travel. It would still take a while, although not nearly as long as sub-light speeds. But the distances are still great and they are just still enroute. Its only been between 50 and 60 years since sightings of "flying saucers" have been reported, so it's possible in terms of travel distance they are almost about to arrive...a decade or two more perhaps?

Those are just two possibiities. I'm sure others could think of more. Just because something has not happened does not mean it will never happen.

 

[Paschendale]

I'd be very disappointed if travel fast enough to reach other inhabited planets is impossible. But I think I would far prefer that we meet aliens as the technologically superior explorers, rather than the other way around. While one would hope that the older a species is, the more civilized it will be, there's no guarantee of that, and it is entirely possible that our first contact with intelligent aliens would be hostile and extremely one sided. I'd like it to be one sided in our favor.

 

[grip]

Heya Grip. :2wave: What about worm-holes? String Theory? Time Travel?

What about them? Theoretically the gravitational forces involved in worm holes are so extreme that nothing could possibly go thru one intact. String Theory = a theory. Time Travel, so far not possible. I've heard Kaku before and agree with some of his premises but I could speculate on any manner of plausible possibilities and be wrong about all of them.

Evolving towards a higher intelligence required a significant number of special circumstances to happen. There is no law written into Evolution that any organism must develop into an intelligent, big brained, bipedal primate. If a species survives, then it is as evolved as any other surviving species, including bacteria, fungi and viruses. Cockroaches were here long before us and might be here long after us.

There are all kinds of possible life destroying hazards we must face in the near future. If we can avoid a mass/near extinction event and don't go backwards we may technologically evolve very quickly. But thru the Internets ability to connect us we're also going thru an intense and sudden cultural shift, where old traditions and values are being challenged. It makes the world feel like 10lbs of crazy in a 5lb bag. The flood of information and speed of change are challenging our ability to adapt quick enough.

We also could be the first planet to have reached this stage of evolution because someone has to be first.

 

[specklebang]

There is virtually no possibility that the universe is not teeming with life. There isn't a number long enough for me to describe the number of planets out there. Even if the formation of life we a one in a quadrillion chance (odds that are millions of times greater than winning the lottery) there are probably thousands or even millions of other sentient life forms, most likely carbon based and vaguely humanoid.

However - the universe is a mighty big place. Even with FTL you are looking at a long journey. To develop FTL requires a lot of scientific advancement. To gain societal cooperation to develop and assemble the resources required to produce even a sigle star-ship would imply a very developed society and a sense of cooperative ethics.

Then, there is that long, long flight ahead of you. Now, you get here and you're antagonistic? You want to steal cows, my coin collection, Joe Arpaio's handgun, coal, water and now you're going to trnsport it back home in your star-ship? That seems completely illogical. Some day we'll get a visit. Eventually, we'll go forth and visit. But hostile? Or hiding among us? Or ripping of our stuff? That seems unlikely.

As for the lack of compassion - I'll point out that we love our domestic companion animals. I love my cats even though they are not my intellectual equals. No matter how "advanced" another race may be, they are not going to waste their long trip by bombing Washington (although I don't mind if they want to). More plausible is they'll take pictures and buy some handicrafts to take home.






(we're just having fun here)

Lizzinator.... You should know better than to make a statement like that without elaborating.

opcorn2:

So?



The real question is: What is more likely, that they're hostile, or that they're friendly?

Stephen Hawking believes they're more likely to be hostile, and I think I mostly agree. Our world is beautiful and full of resources. Any alien race that makes it to earth will be extremely advanced and likely require resources. They'll likely look at us with as much compassion as liberals have with fetuses.

 

[MMC]

What about them? Theoretically the gravitational forces involved in worm holes are so extreme that nothing could possibly go thru one intact. String Theory = a theory. Time Travel, so far not possible. I've heard Kaku before and agree with some of his premises but I could speculate on any manner of plausible possibilities and be wrong about all of them.

Evolving towards a higher intelligence required a significant number of special circumstances to happen. There is no law written into Evolution that any organism must develop into an intelligent, big brained, bipedal primate. If a species survives, then it is as evolved as any other surviving species, including bacteria, fungi and viruses. Cockroaches were here long before us and might be here long after us.

There are all kinds of possible life destroying hazards we must face in the near future. If we can avoid a mass/near extinction event and don't go backwards we may technologically evolve very quickly. But thru the Internets ability to connect us we're also going thru an intense and sudden cultural shift, where old traditions and values are being challenged. It makes the world feel like 10lbs of crazy in a 5lb bag. The flood of information and speed of change are challenging our ability to adapt quick enough.

We also could be the first planet to have reached this stage of evolution because someone has to be first.

What about Special Relativity.....Time Dilation?





Like say a Space time bubble. Plus we now know there are particles that are traveling faster than the Speed of light.

 

[grip]

What about Special Relativity.....Time Dilation?

Like say a Space time bubble. Plus we now know there are particles that are traveling faster than the Speed of light.

I'm not saying it will always be absolutely impossible to achieve interstellar space/time travel. I said it's possible we'll never achieve it.

I don't see us literally traveling thru space in some hyper-drive vehicle but using something more like a Stargate, where we fold space and arrive almost instantaneously at some distant coordinates.

 

[Gathomas88]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” - Arthur C. Clarke

I'm not saying it will always be absolutely impossible to achieve interstellar space/time travel. I said it's possible we'll never achieve it.

I don't see us literally traveling thru space in some hyper-drive vehicle but using something more like a Stargate, where we fold space and arrive almost instantaneously at some distant coordinates.

You never know. Nothing's impossible given sufficiently advanced technology.

Alcubierre Drive

 

[MMC]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” - Arthur C. Clarke



You never know. Nothing's impossible given sufficiently advanced technology.

Alcubierre Drive

Heya Gathomas. :2wave: The Germans are working on a drive for a flight to Mars.

 

[Jack Hays]

Don't know.

I will say that if aliens exist, one could be sitting right beside me/you right at this moment and we wouldn't even know about it....

After all, if they are light years ahead of us from a technological standpoint, they would have the ability to remain invisible and unheard....

Sobering thought, if you ask me.

Opinions?

Once upon a time Carl Sagan used some simple math to indicate that it is likely there are other sentient beings in the universe. Problem is that same math shows how possible it is in a universe "teeming" with sentient life for the different beings never to meet. The universe is unimaginably vast.

 

[Gathomas88]

Heya Gathomas. :2wave: The Germans are working on a drive for a flight to Mars.

Awesome. The space plane concept has been in dire need of revisiting for some time now.

It's really a shame that the Cold War had to put such a bug up everyone's butt about nuclear power. Things would be massively easier if we could simply take a more direct approach to space propulsion. :mrgreen:

Nuclear pulse propulsion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[American]

One of light's greatest mysteries, eh?

It's kind of hard to fathom just how big are galaxy is. 200 Billion Stars. That's 200,000,000,000. If each star just had two planets orbiting around it, that's 400,000,000,000 planets. Given the chances, I wouldn't be surprised to find other life in the universe.

It depends on whether you believe in the Rare Earth hypothesis or the Copernican principle.

 

[Goshin]

My obvious dodge? I guess I must have missed something.:3oops:

As for your observations on how a race as enlightened as ourselves goes, all I can say is that we have quite obviously come along way, and we all have to start somewhere. The tendency of evolutionary influence is to move forward, not backward.

If the aliens are Nietzcheans, we're in trouble. :lamo