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Are we about to have an "Atlas Shrugged" moment?

it's just me

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You are on government paid roads are you not? Socialism paid for them. They could all be privatized and the owners could require tolls to use them. But no, the gosh darn socialists want crappy government owned roads that are poorly maintained and overcrowded causing traffic jams

I dont live in Canada. The streets were paid for by the city and the secondary roads were paid for by the state. They are not "poorly maintained" and nobody is going to privatize them.
 

it's just me

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I value your opinion, highly.

Ayn Rand has many, many flaws. She was a homewrecker and made her heroic female protaganist a homewrecker as an act of self-justification. She did not understand the value of voluntary altruism to the altruistic one. Her characters are one dimensional and highly unrealistic. Her understanding of businessmen and their love for the free market is pure romantic fantasy.

etc.

But she was prescient in some of that novel.

Sometimes I think the talking heads and the liberal pols in the media have just read that book and are modeling their talking points on those of her government characters.

What's happening now with nurses, pilots, police, soon to be military, etc. is that (some of them) are willing to quit their professions over this vaccine mandate.

Why?

It isn't because of the risk that they perceive from the vaccine. They have a high tolerance for risk or they would not have chosen their professions, and they certainly wouldn't have kept working them during the pandemic, pre-vaccine. The same is true for teachers, when it comes to communicable diseases. Teachers are told during pre-employment training that working with kids, "you'll get everything from whooping cough to hoof and mouth. It's part of the job.

It certainly isn't because they are Trump worshippers. It's Trump's vaccine that he rushed through and cut red tape for. But I understand that the Trumprette's Syndrome didn't stop when he left office so some people have to compulsively blurt his name.

I think the real motivation is that sometimes enough is freaking enough. You can bully some of the people some of the time, but you can't bully all of the people all of the time. Those professions are exposed to a variety of strangers all the time. It is extremely unlikely that they have not been infected already, probably multiple times. They have immunity and they are healthy enough to fight it of, especially a second time.

The purpose of forcing them to get the vaccine is to force them to get the vaccine. To bend the knee to the COVID Karen movement. To show that they can be bullied, as long as it is their jobs you go after. They're willing to give up their livelihoods to refuse to do that.

Americans have sacrificed more for less.

What it will eventually show is that big brother needs us more than we need him.
 

trouble13

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I don't know about Atlas shriggs but of enough people opt out of working it will create a profound change in our labor market.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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I dont live in Canada. The streets were paid for by the city and the secondary roads were paid for by the state. They are not "poorly maintained" and nobody is going to privatize them.


The government forced taxpayers to pay for the roads you use. That is a form of socialism. They should be privatized and have people pay to use them, a person who does not drive should not be forced to pay for roads you use
 

seymourflops

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I don't know about Atlas shriggs but of enough people opt out of working it will create a profound change in our labor market.
Yes, it will.

A lot of that opting out is being done by people who formerly were whining that making coffee should pay as much as welding. Now, they are just waiting for their COVID-driven UBI.

Having professional opt out won't mean a shortage of professionals. They are higher paying jobs, so applicants previously unqualified will snap them up.
 

it's just me

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The government forced taxpayers to pay for the roads you use. That is a form of socialism. They should be privatized and have people pay to use them, a person who does not drive should not be forced to pay for roads you use

You need to look up socialism in the dictionary. The people vote on things like roads.
 

trouble13

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Yes, it will.

A lot of that opting out is being done by people who formerly were whining that making coffee should pay as much as welding. Now, they are just waiting for their COVID-driven UBI.

Having professional opt out won't mean a shortage of professionals. They are higher paying jobs, so applicants previously unqualified will snap them up.
I am wondering, if they are unhirable because they won't get vaccinated, if that qualifies them to collect SSI?
 
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it's just me

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So socialism is ok if people vote for it?

Socialism: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

If people vote for it, its not socialism.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Socialism: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

If people vote for it, its not socialism.
An interesting definition of socialism. So for Universal Health Care not to be socialism in your view is if people voted for it
 
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Mongidig

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I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the Libs (libertarians) freak out because of the mandates.
 

Tlrmln

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In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?

Personally I'm okay with paying a little more for healthcare and/or airfare if it means that the person treating/flying me isn't an idiot who refuses to take a vaccine.
 

seymourflops

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Personally I'm okay with paying a little more for healthcare and/or airfare if it means that the person treating/flying me isn't an idiot who refuses to take a vaccine.
You'll be paying more the the less qualified pilot that the pilot who quit was hired over.

Enjoy!
 

W_Heisenberg

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But we know capitalism can work without government, because we observe that markets work even with government actively trying to destroy them. Consider the market for sex. It's illegal just about everywhere, yet it's not very difficult for a buyer to get anything he wants. It's unlicensed, unregulated, and untaxed, yet it works.


This is called the middle ground fallacy. The middle point is the best because it's the middle.




Based on whose values? Certainly not mine.

Capitalism needs the Rule of Law to work. There is a reason why people tend to invest money in modern western economies and tend to shy away from investing in developing countries. A lot of the poorer countries just don’t have a functioning judiciary where you can resolve business disputes.

And some projects require community funding such as infrastructure and war.

It’s not practical to use an entirely capitalist system. As useful as capitalism is for most things it doesn’t work very well for some things.

Environmental laws are a good example. There is very little incentive for a company to not pollute or dump toxic waste improperly.
 

W_Heisenberg

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I value your opinion, highly.

Ayn Rand has many, many flaws. She was a homewrecker and made her heroic female protaganist a homewrecker as an act of self-justification. She did not understand the value of voluntary altruism to the altruistic one. Her characters are one dimensional and highly unrealistic. Her understanding of businessmen and their love for the free market is pure romantic fantasy.

etc.

But she was prescient in some of that novel.

Sometimes I think the talking heads and the liberal pols in the media have just read that book and are modeling their talking points on those of her government characters.

What's happening now with nurses, pilots, police, soon to be military, etc. is that (some of them) are willing to quit their professions over this vaccine mandate.

Why?

It isn't because of the risk that they perceive from the vaccine. They have a high tolerance for risk or they would not have chosen their professions, and they certainly wouldn't have kept working them during the pandemic, pre-vaccine. The same is true for teachers, when it comes to communicable diseases. Teachers are told during pre-employment training that working with kids, "you'll get everything from whooping cough to hoof and mouth. It's part of the job.

It certainly isn't because they are Trump worshippers. It's Trump's vaccine that he rushed through and cut red tape for. But I understand that the Trumprette's Syndrome didn't stop when he left office so some people have to compulsively blurt his name.

I think the real motivation is that sometimes enough is freaking enough. You can bully some of the people some of the time, but you can't bully all of the people all of the time. Those professions are exposed to a variety of strangers all the time. It is extremely unlikely that they have not been infected already, probably multiple times. They have immunity and they are healthy enough to fight it of, especially a second time.

The purpose of forcing them to get the vaccine is to force them to get the vaccine. To bend the knee to the COVID Karen movement. To show that they can be bullied, as long as it is their jobs you go after. They're willing to give up their livelihoods to refuse to do that.

Americans have sacrificed more for less.

You guys act like a vaccine mandate is a crime against humanity. It’s so silly. The vaccine is safe, free, and effective. It takes no more than 30 mins to get vaccinated in most places. Yes, it’s a bit of a pain in the ass, but it will save lives. It’s not a “big ask.” But you guys act like we are sending people to a gulag or killing them in a gas chamber. Getting vaccinated isn’t a big deal. People should just do it, get over it, and move on with their lives. We’ve had forced inoculations and vaccinations since the revolutionary war. This isn’t new. What’s new is that Trump supporters and Republicans — out of sheer spite and due to politics — have decided they are going to make this a political issue and ruin everyone else’s day.

Republicans and Trump supporters need to grow up and act like adults.
 

minnie616

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Thus far none of what's posited in the OP is panning out. Sure, there have been some people who quit over this, but those numbers are dwarfed by the many who complied.

Exactly, when jobs are on the line , it has been noted about 90 percent ( or more ) of employees get the vaccination.


 
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EMNofSeattle

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In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?
I would say so, although I am happy that the shrugging is coming from common people. I never believed the premise from Ayn’s mediocre novel that the big capital owners would go on capital strike, there’s never a shortage of oligarchs willing and able to profit from any government action, the big banksters make more money from food stamps then the poor because the banks process all the payments for example.
 

EMNofSeattle

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You guys act like a vaccine mandate is a crime against humanity. It’s so silly. The vaccine is safe, free, and effective. It takes no more than 30 mins to get vaccinated in most places. Yes, it’s a bit of a pain in the ass, but it will save lives. It’s not a “big ask.” But you guys act like we are sending people to a gulag or killing them in a gas chamber. Getting vaccinated isn’t a big deal. People should just do it, get over it, and move on with their lives. We’ve had forced inoculations and vaccinations since the revolutionary war. This isn’t new. What’s new is that Trump supporters and Republicans — out of sheer spite and due to politics — have decided they are going to make this a political issue and ruin everyone else’s day.

Republicans and Trump supporters need to grow up and act like adults.
Blah blah blah blah.

The safety of the vaccine is irrelevant. The political act of mandating it is morally wrong and a violation of the political values of this country. No individual persons life is worth more then said values

And let’s be honest anyway, the way you people talk about people who don’t want to take the vaccine, or your political rivals generally, you would happily man the gulags for them.
 

EMNofSeattle

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...as is capitalism. It is finding the right blend of capitalism and socialism that requires thought.
No, socialism is evil and so no blend of socialism is ever acceptable. You’re so ignorant of the topic though, or dishonest that you promote the idea socialism and “capitalism” (whatever that means) can be “blended”
 

EMNofSeattle

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The socialists are responsible for Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, free public schools, and on and on. You would be far from fine without the socialists.
No, they’re not. Because none of those things are socialism. Take your psyops elsewhere
 
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