Are Trump's purported remarks about the troops disqualifying?

[Rogue Valley]

If true, he should be marched out to the nearest lamppost.

 

[Moderate Right]

Calling those KIA "losers" and "suckers." Or saying of POWs, "I like people that weren't captured," for that matter.

Those so called remarks were not remarks. They were made up by anti-Trumpers.

 

[Greenbeard]

Those so called remarks were not remarks. They were made up by anti-Trumpers.

The latter remarks were made on camera; the former are consistent with them, and characteristic of the general attitude of the POS in the White House.

You've picked a despicable hill to die on here.

 

[uptower]

So you are giving him credit for surviving close calls. Sort of like in a James Bond movie.
So, you too don't care if his accusers are specifically identified. You accept the Atlantic article as fact without knowing who reported that Trump made those vile comments. And you believe it because Trump made similar comments in the past.
I pity the guy on trial if you're a member of the jury.
You must have been cheering for Blasey Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings whenever was against him and nothing could be proven.
You're probably a believer in the "Hands up; Don't Shoot" mythology where people still believe that is what Michael Brown said before he got shot.

Eight sentences and all of them about 'me' not the topic. All of them. Learn to debate, learn to stick to the topic. Once someone starts attacking posters it shows they have no ideas to contribute.

I will address the only somewhat relevant sentence above in bold:

Yes I think that because Trump has a past record of saying such insensitive things he's likely to have done so again. That's the premise of the poll (it's not a jury trial so spare us the drama, Matlock) and it's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make given the person we're talking about.

 

[Moderate Right]

The latter remarks were made on camera; the former are consistent with them, and characteristic of the general attitude of the POS in the White House.

You've picked a despicable hill to die on here.

If they were made on camera then you can post the link so I can hear it myself.

 

[Greenbeard]

If they were made on camera then you can post the link so I can hear it myself.

 

[Moderate Right]

LOL. That's years ago and was in the heat of battle. I already know that. Please post the current link to prove the recent things the left claims Trump said.

 

[Greenbeard]

LOL. That's years ago and was in the heat of battle. I already know that. Please post the current link to prove the recent things the left claims Trump said.

We know what you think of POWs, now it's clear what you think of those KIA.

Like I said, despicable hill to die on.

 

[uptower]

LOL. That's years ago and was in the heat of battle. I already know that. Please post the current link to prove the recent things the left claims Trump said.

That's just moving the goalpost. The 'heat of battle' and 'years ago' is no excuse. It was bad enough then and reason enough to suspect he still holds such views. More corroboration is coming out.

 

[WillyPete]

The public deserves to know if the story is true and it is true if people believe there are real sources that can be believed.

It's true if he said what has been reported. People's beliefs don't enter into it.

Let us not forget the sources you are questioning are amongst Trump's closest staff, the team he takes with him overseas.

 

[JasperL]

It's a bunch of malarchy. Were Fox news and the other news outlets there? The only thing they can confirm is heresy.

Well, good we've resurrected that excuse! If we were in a court of law, that might matter, but we're not.

FWIW, I think you meant "hearsay" although 'heresy' works pretty good in this context.

 

[Overitall]

"I don't get it. What was in it for them?" Trump was said to have asked retired Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who later became Trump's chief of staff, as the two stood beside 1st Lt. Robert Kelly's grave at Arlington National Cemetery in 2017.

Note that Kelly became chief of staff AFTER the alleged comments. Comments that others are using to claim that trump is guilty of saying the other comments. Do you think Kelly would take the job had Trump actually disparaged his son?

 

[Amelia]

Present a credible source of his alleged, purported, supposed remarks from someone who was there when he said what you would like to believe he said.
If no one who was there is willing to take an oath and give you bloodsuckers what you want to see and hear , then what good is hearsay and 'he said, he said'?
More fake news to feed the rabid anti-Trumpers who couldn't be any more rabid leading up to November.

The point is that what he is alleged to have said is very similar to what he has already said in public.

What he has already said in public is plenty bad. He has already disqualified himself many times over in public on this subject and you don't give a damn. Trump has enough shame to lie and say he never called McCain a loser. So he is tacitly admitting that it was bad for him to do it. But I don't expect any admissions from you.

I don't expect anything from you and I don't know what I did to get your attention.

You are covered in Trump slime and I don't want you to splatter me with it so quit bothering me.

 

[Nickyjo]

You wrote: "Trump is the one who seems to love torture."
Why? Because he was not opposed to waterboarding? A lot of Americans think waterboarding could be helpful in a time of danger and imminent disaster. Haven't you watched any "24 " episodes?

Just before an election, I would be shocked if Trump said something totally stupid and damaging.

Great, so we’ll base our policy on a TV series. Btw, Trump said he would do torture *worse* than waterboarding. Given that Trump loves to pardon war criminals, I presume he should propose pardons for the Japanese and other war criminals the allies hanged for waterboarding and other niceties post WWII.

I helped organize a campaign against torture some years ago for Amnesty International. I learned a bit about it from meeting several victims, doctors and shrinks who treated them, and a couple of torturers. There seem to be three victims of the practice: the tortured, the torturers themselves, and societies that allow it. It produces lousy information, it violates domestic law, international law, and the commandments. The only practice that seemed effective in producing good info might have been when a prisoners children were tortured. Given that Trump proposed killing the children of terrorists, he might be willing to go down that road. So long as he is ready to meet the hangman, fine. He has made dishonoring the flag and Constitution his thing, so it fits a pattern.

 

[jaypatriot]

Great, so we’ll base our policy on a TV series. Btw, Trump said he would do torture *worse* than waterboarding. Given that Trump loves to pardon war criminals, I presume he should propose pardons for the Japanese and other war criminals the allies hanged for waterboarding and other niceties post WWII.

I helped organize a campaign against torture some years ago for Amnesty International. I learned a bit about it from meeting several victims, doctors and shrinks who treated them, and a couple of torturers. There seem to be three victims of the practice: the tortured, the torturers themselves, and societies that allow it. It produces lousy information, it violates domestic law, international law, and the commandments. The only practice that seemed effective in producing good info might have been when a prisoners children were tortured. Given that Trump proposed killing the children of terrorists, he might be willing to go down that road. So long as he is ready to meet the hangman, fine. He has made dishonoring the flag and Constitution his thing, so it fits a pattern.

So you believe waterboarding is torture. At one time it was a legal form of enhanced interrogation.
Times change. People change.
They used to hang people in the public square as a warning to others and leave the bodies hanging.
We don't do that anymore.

 

[Nickyjo]

So you believe waterboarding is torture. At one time it was a legal form of enhanced interrogation.
Times change. People change.
They used to hang people in the public square as a warning to others and leave the bodies hanging.
We don't do that anymore.

Waterboarding meets the definition of torture. At one time other forms were legal as well. Those times are considered barbaric. Morality, domestic and treaty law now forbid it it. You know, the stuff Trump doesn’t care about.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Fox News has it share of Trump haters.

Has Griffin ever been known to be a Trump hater in your view?

Knowing and alleging are two different things. It would and should make a difference IF he said it. But I don’t make decisions based on gossip. Do you?

If the same story is confirmed by multiple, reputable news outlets then what's being reported can be accepted with greater confidence. I don't think we can call this gossip anymore.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

From the FOX News WH reporter John Roberts who is not a Trump fan btw:


@AmbJohnBolton told me today that if @realDonaldTrump had said he didn’t want to visit Aisne-Marne because the interred heroes were “losers” and “suckers”, he would have written an entire chapter about it in his book #TheRoomWhereItHappened

5:05 PM · Sep 4, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


I'll let Jen respond to this more fully. We co-ordinated our reporting tonight on @SpecialReport. She specifically reported that her sources had NOT confirmed "the most salacious part" of the Atlantic article about POTUS calling war dead at Aisne-Marnes "losers" and "suckers"

5:38 PM · Sep 4, 2020·Twitter Web App

That's okay. There is more to the Atlantic article than the visit to the cemetery.

Also, Bolton's comment is not a refutation of the cemetery aspect of the story. He's just saying he didn't hear Trump say it.

There is a pattern of behavior being reported by multiple sources with respect to a variety of incidents.

Have you read the Atlantic article in full?

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’ - The Atlantic

 

[avatar]

His remarks are not disqualifying but they will cost him votes.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Would you vote for Biden if he was on camera being a creeper with kids?

Are you accusing Biden of something? Would you like to make a specific accusation rather than just casting dispersions?

Why won't you answer my question?

Would you vote for Trump if you knew he thought and spoke about people who served in the U.S. military as being suckers and losers?

Well we know whatever source was used for the story lied about the helicopter or doesn’t have enough access to the president or information to know what he said or know that the weather was documented in official sources. So maybe your source just doesn’t know anything. That’s a possibility. Either way not credible

1. Why can't all of these things be true? Why can't the recommendations to not travel be true, and the information about the weather be true, and why can't Trump also have said what he is reported to have said? None of these things are mutually exclusive. And what's being labeled as "not true" is not that the weather was bad, or not that the it was recommended the helicopters shouldn't fly, but rather Trump's rationale for visiting the cemetery:

"When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true. Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day."

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’ - The Atlantic

2. There's more than one incident being reported in the Atlantic article. And there are multiple sources for these various incidents. Do you reject everything else in the article because of the inconsistencies you see in the first incident reporting in the article?

3. If you accept Trump's statements and comments as being true despite the fact he has lied to or mislead the American people over 20,000 times since assuming office, why don't you give others the same benefit of the doubt?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

He is the most pro-vet president in 50 years.

Is that what you want to go with? It appears as though Trump's record on veterans issue is a record of incompetence and failure:

Trump Cites the V.A. as a Central Achievement. But Troubles Simmer. - The New York Times

As he campaigns for a second term, President Trump brags about few things more consistently than his record on veterans affairs. Among his signature lines: “No one has done more for veterans than me.” But nearly four years into his promises to fix systemic problems at the Department of Veterans Affairs, charges of sexism, ineptitude and other flaws remain.

Mr. Trump’s signature plan to expand veteran access to health care outside the department’s own health care centers has been hobbled by the coronavirus pandemic.

His secretary of veterans affairs, Robert L. Wilkie, has been ensnared in an investigation into whether he used his authority to discredit a female veteran who said she was assaulted at a veterans health center in Washington, D.C. Complaints of harassment at veteran’s centers by female veterans remains high.

Black workers recently accused leaders of the Kansas City V.A. of fostering a culture of racism. And as calls from Black veterans and active-duty members of the armed forces to remove the names of Confederate officers from military bases have grown louder, Mr. Wilkie’s own history of insensitive remarks have resurfaced, including those describing the president of the confederacy, Jefferson Davis, as a victim of Northern aggression. He also gave a vigorous defense of Nazi headstones at veterans cemeteries before bowing to pressure to remove them.

While some of Mr. Trump’s promises to ferret out corruption at the department have come to pass, other forms have taken root, including at a new office formed to protect whistle-blowers, which the inspector general determined often found ways to retaliate against them.

Beyond issues of administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs, questions remain about the care offered to those who served.

The suicide rate among veterans — one of Mr. Wilkie’s stated priorities — has not been reduced. The Trump administration’s cutbacks at the post office have hit some veterans, who say they are unable to get their prescriptions by mail.

And while care for veterans with coronavirus appeared to go well — deaths at the hospitals were lower than at many health systems — the department was plagued by a lack of protective equipment for its workers.

That long and expanding litany of problems at the Department of Veterans Affairs has left analysts and some veterans questioning why Mr. Trump has tried to make his record there a centerpiece of his quest for a second term.

And taking credit for things a much better President was responsible for:

Mr. Trump is fond of saying that he delivered the Veterans Choice Program, which enables some veterans to get care outside of the agency’s health centers, and that “no president’s ever been able to do it, and we got it done.”

This is untrue; President Barack Obama signed that law, the product of a bill negotiated between Senators Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, and John McCain, Republican of Arizona, in 2014. What Mr. Trump signed in 2018 — a measure called was the Mission Act — greatly loosened the standards allowing veterans to seek primary care, urgent care and mental health services outside the department’s system.

The urgent care component is viewed largely as a success. But for primary and specialist care, the legislation has so far not transformed the system. It was somewhat hobbled out of the gate by a shortage of doctors in the network the department chose for the program. The company told lawmakers last year that it would probably need millions of dollars more to meet the coverage goals.

And failing, once again, to respond to Covid-19:

Then, the coronavirus hit, and in March, the department told Congress it would place a “temporary strategic pause in the Mission Act access standards for 90 days, or until the soonest possible time that routine care may safely resume.” Community care referrals fell about 70 percent and millions of veterans canceled appointments over the ensuing months.

“The V.A. has been conducting Mission Act referrals in many areas where it is safe to do so throughout this national emergency,” said Christina Noel, a spokeswoman for the department. “Some sites are doing more referrals amid the pandemic than they were prior to the pandemic.”

--

Given the variable conditions across the country and the system’s highly decentralized structure, tracking the outside care veterans are receiving is difficult. But lawmakers and veterans groups note that wait times for care are increasing, which the Mission Act was meant to ease.

Trump is an incompetent liar and a failure.

 

[mrjurrs]

Would you be disqualified from becoming president if you grabbed genitals before your election?

I would think that any sexual predator would be disqualified. I would be wrong.