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Are Trump's Attacks on Clinton Working?

NeverTrump

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I am surprised to see Trump failing at his own game. I half expected the Clinton political machine to destroy Trump, but not this quickly. I don't think there is much Trump can do to bring other people onto his train. Not in the direction he has taken recently anyway. He managed to capture the tea party market and that's about it. He kept on saying that during the primaries, he didn't focus on Clinton because he he wanted to save all his attacks on her for after he won the nomination. So now it's been a month in, and I don't think any of his attacks have stuck to it. She seems to wash them right off.

The reasons for this may be:
1. Trump has got HUGE secrets on Hillary that he hasn't let slip yet. (highly doubtful)
2. Democrat Unity.
3. The Clinton Staff and Political Campaign teams.
3. Republican queasiness about Trump himself.
4. His attacks are just really name-calling, full of fluff, and not much else.
5. He has no national network and his yes men are pretty bad at defending him.
6. Lack of central message.

So what do you think? Are Trump's attacks working?
 
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Chomsky

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I am surprised to see Trump failing at his own game. I half expected the Clinton political machine to destroy Trump, but not this quickly. I don't think there is much Trump can do to bring other people onto his train. Not in the direction he has taken recently anyway. He managed to capture the tea party market and that's about it. He kept on saying that during the primaries, he didn't focus on Clinton because he he wanted to save all his attacks on her for after he won the nomination. So now it's been a month in, and I don't think any of his attacks have stuck to it. She seems to wash them right off.

The reasons for this may be:
1. Trump has got HUGE secrets on Hillary that he hasn't let slip yet. (highly doubtful)
2. Democrat Unity.
3. The Clinton Staff and Political Campaign teams.
3. Republican queasiness about Trump himself.
4. His attacks are just really name-calling, full of fluff, and not much else.
5. He has no national network and his yes men are pretty bad at defending him.
6. Lack of central message.

So what do you think? Are Trump's attacks working?
You pen some nicely detailed and though-out OPs, but I'm going to just touch on this one only in the larger sense:

Trumps derogatory style of "Lyin' Ted" and "Little Marco" may have worked well with a subset of the GOP electorate.

But I'm not sure it will play well in a Presidential election with Indies and Dems. Hell, it doesn't even play well with many GOP now in the general! I see this as a difference between what wins the GOP nomination, and what wins the general.

I will go out on a limb now, and predict HRC will never join trump at his level in this, like Marco Rubio briefly attempted (to great failure). She will remain reasonably composed and project a Presidential image. (She has Warren et al to do her dirty work)

This will cause problems for Trump, and we have not seen him perform at her current level or manner, if indeed he can even do it successfully!

That's my take.
 

Hawkeye10

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Trump is not focused on Hillary as he is still dealing with the GOP. We are starting to get an idea of how this fight is going to be conducted on both sides, and I have to say I expect that it will be a lot of fun.
 

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You pen some nicely detailed and though-out OPs, but I'm going to just touch on this one only in the larger sense:

Trumps derogatory style of "Lyin' Ted" and "Little Marco" may have worked well with a subset of the GOP electorate.

But I'm not sure it will play well in a Presidential election with Indies and Dems. Hell, it doesn't even play well with many GOP now in the general! I see this as a difference between what wins the GOP nomination, and what wins the general.

I will go out on a limb now, and predict HRC will never join trump at his level in this, like Marco Rubio briefly attempted (to great failure). She will remain reasonably composed and project a Presidential image. (She has Warren et al to do her dirty work)

This will cause problems for Trump, and we have not seen him perform at her current level or manner, if indeed he can even do it successfully!

That's my take.

I think Hillary will most certainly stoop to that level, the democrats are pretty much ignored when they go there by the MSM.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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You pen some nicely detailed and though-out OPs, but I'm going to just touch on this one only in the larger sense:

Trumps derogatory style of "Lyin' Ted" and "Little Marco" may have worked well with a subset of the GOP electorate.

But I'm not sure it will play well in a Presidential election with Indies and Dems. Hell, it doesn't even play well with many GOP now in the general! I see this as a difference between what wins the GOP nomination, and what wins the general.

I will go out on a limb now, and predict HRC will never join trump at his level in this, like Marco Rubio briefly attempted (to great failure). She will remain reasonably composed and project a Presidential image. (She has Warren et al to do her dirty work)

This will cause problems for Trump, and we have not seen him perform at her current level or manner, if indeed he can even do it successfully!

That's my take.
While that may be true as regards Trump's fight with fellow GOPers, the "Lying" and "Crooked" part actually fits nicely with the persona even Dems and, for sure the Independents, already have of over the Hillary and her proven liar husband, Billy boy toy Clinton. The recent twitter salvo with o t Hillary positing that Trump should "delete" his account, while initially seeming brilliant to her sycophants, was such a ironically dumb choice of words with all her email deletion problems. Trump/team pounced right on it, clobbered her on such a stupid mistake.

She isn't presidential, she can only attempt to put on the fake smile and pretend, with Bill at her side perhaps.
 

Frank Apisa

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You pen some nicely detailed and though-out OPs, but I'm going to just touch on this one only in the larger sense:

Trumps derogatory style of "Lyin' Ted" and "Little Marco" may have worked well with a subset of the GOP electorate.

But I'm not sure it will play well in a Presidential election with Indies and Dems. Hell, it doesn't even play well with many GOP now in the general! I see this as a difference between what wins the GOP nomination, and what wins the general.

I will go out on a limb now, and predict HRC will never join trump at his level in this, like Marco Rubio briefly attempted (to great failure). She will remain reasonably composed and project a Presidential image. (She has Warren et al to do her dirty work)

This will cause problems for Trump, and we have not seen him perform at her current level or manner, if indeed he can even do it successfully!

That's my take.

I agree.
 

Frank Apisa

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Amazing how the Republican Party has managed to work ITSELF into the position in which it finds itself right now.

It is a marvel that they managed to do it to themselves with almost no help from the Democrats.

Right now, the Republican Party is not fit to run itself, let alone the most powerful country on the planet.

Part of me wants to see them destroyed in this next election, but I understand and appreciate the need for a STRONG loyal opposition.

Get your act together Republicans. You have a responsibility to the rest of us. Jumping into a volcano the way you are is not acting responsibly.
 

sangha

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I am surprised to see Trump failing at his own game. I half expected the Clinton political machine to destroy Trump, but not this quickly. I don't think there is much Trump can do to bring other people onto his train. Not in the direction he has taken recently anyway. He managed to capture the tea party market and that's about it. He kept on saying that during the primaries, he didn't focus on Clinton because he he wanted to save all his attacks on her for after he won the nomination. So now it's been a month in, and I don't think any of his attacks have stuck to it. She seems to wash them right off.

The reasons for this may be:
1. Trump has got HUGE secrets on Hillary that he hasn't let slip yet. (highly doubtful)
2. Democrat Unity.
3. The Clinton Staff and Political Campaign teams.
3. Republican queasiness about Trump himself.
4. His attacks are just really name-calling, full of fluff, and not much else.
5. He has no national network and his yes men are pretty bad at defending him.
6. Lack of central message.

So what do you think? Are Trump's attacks working?

Trump is failing and the reason why is mentioned in your OP
I don't think there is much Trump can do to bring other people onto his train. Not in the direction he has taken recently anyway. He managed to capture the tea party market and that's about it.

In order to win the Presidency, one must have broad appeal. Trump's appeal is limited and he doesn't have the ability to broaden that appeal. He's a one-trick pony and he faces the same dillemna the GOP faces - either tone down their act to appeal to the majority (and lose the support of their strongest supporters) or continue to appeal to a minority of voters.

The latter choice can get republicans elected in a congressional district but it's not going to get anyone into the White House
 

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I think that Trump gained lots of Independent support in the beginning when he bad-mouthed Free Trade.

If Trump continued to claim anti-Free Trade, then his poll numbers will go up.

However; the Republican party itself is supportive of Free Trade.

Obama ran on anti-Free Trade and then set out to initiate more Free Trade deals than any other president in history.

The Ruling Class can not have Trump running around talking about cancelling Free Trade or renegotiating any trade deals. No corporation is going to financially support any candidate who is anti-Free Trade.

And, thus the battle within the Republican Elite.

The Ruling Class can handle racism of every sort, but not anti-trade.

The TPP could be up for a vote before November.

Calm
 
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Skeptic Bob

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I don't think he has really started attacking her, yet.

That said, both of their favorably ratings are so low I wonder how much lower they could actually get. I tend to think that th people who still actually like Trump and Clinton at this point are "true believers" and aren't going to be dissuaded.
 

Frank Apisa

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I don't think he has really started attacking her, yet.

That said, both of their favorably ratings are so low I wonder how much lower they could actually get. I tend to think that th people who still actually like Trump and Clinto at this point are "true believers" and aren't going to be dissuaded.

MY GUESS: Trump will continue to attack her personally...he just cannot help it. No matter how many people tell him to cool it, he will continue unrelentingly. And he will make the attack so savage...that at the end of the campaign...Hillary Clinton's favorability ratings will be twice what they are now.

Americans tend to react with compassion to the object of savage attacks.

We'll see.
 

NeverTrump

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Trump is not focused on Hillary as he is still dealing with the GOP. We are starting to get an idea of how this fight is going to be conducted on both sides, and I have to say I expect that it will be a lot of fun.

Are you serious? Just about anything with substance that comes out of Trump's mouth these days are attacks on Hillary or other democrats, but they don't stick. Trump is still dealing with the GOP thanks to his own mouth. If he knew what to say and when, he wouldn't be dealing with the GOP and he would be able to get them to back him more easily. He just says whatever he thinks the tea party wants to hear and you guys are falling for it. What makes you think Trump will change his ways? What makes you think Trump has more attacks that we don't know of yet? Just because he says so?? The Clintons have been in the public spotlight for years and sticking with his attacks on Bill or attacking Clinton's wealth is going to fall on deaf ears. Got anything else?
 

NeverTrump

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MY GUESS: Trump will continue to attack her personally...he just cannot help it. No matter how many people tell him to cool it, he will continue unrelentingly. And he will make the attack so savage...that at the end of the campaign...Hillary Clinton's favorability ratings will be twice what they are now.

Americans tend to react with compassion to the object of savage attacks.

We'll see.

You know that's the thing. The more nasty this primary got the more favorable Washington and President Obama appealed to me. I assume the same thing will happen in the general. Just because Trump can make the GOP look like losers does not mean he can make Clinton look like one. It's easy for him to destroy the GOP because more than half the country loathe them and I'd say most say the GOP is wrong for our country and complete the list of corruption for most people. For some reasons lots of democrats make the cut off from being corrupt in the eyes of the general public and I think Trump sees it the same way. He was one ya know and he has never been particularly friendly to the Republican Party itself.

Heck, the tea party itself spends more time attacking the GOP than the democrats. Which has allowed the Democrats to fortify their defense. While the GOP has been getting attacked on two fronts since 2008 and now three with Trump in there. Paul Ryan is right to suggest that Trump is offering fake unity, and I see Hillary and the Democrats really unifying at this point.

The nail in the coffin for Trump might be whatever offensive thing he plans for the Convention. It's going to be flashy and different, but that's not necessarily good. It could turn into a real circus! Complete with scantily clad acrobats
 

NeverTrump

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I think Hillary will most certainly stoop to that level, the democrats are pretty much ignored when they go there by the MSM.

Hillary has just told Trump to delete his twitter. That's about as nasty as she has gotten herself. If they keep responding to him like this. It's game over. You can't really counter that with more nasty things otherwise you look like an idiot. Whoever on her team thought of that was brilliant. Yeah the GOP can make snide comments about her server and emails, but no one will take that seriously because Trump is still out there saying stupid things and other Democrats can just respond in kind, Eye Roll, "Delete your account Trump." Shut Down.
 

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Hillary has just told Trump to delete his twitter. That's about as nasty as she has gotten herself. If they keep responding to him like this. It's game over. You can't really counter that with more nasty things otherwise you look like an idiot. Whoever on her team thought of that was brilliant. Yeah the GOP can make snide comments about her server and emails, but no one will take that seriously because Trump is still out there saying stupid things and other Democrats can just respond in kind, Eye Roll, "Delete your account Trump." Shut Down.

Maybe I don't get twitter but "delete your account" seems pretty lowbrow.
 

Frank Apisa

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You know that's the thing. The more nasty this primary got the more favorable Washington and President Obama appealed to me. I assume the same thing will happen in the general. Just because Trump can make the GOP look like losers does not mean he can make Clinton look like one. It's easy for him to destroy the GOP because more than half the country loathe them and I'd say most say the GOP is wrong for our country and complete the list of corruption for most people. For some reasons lots of democrats make the cut off from being corrupt in the eyes of the general public and I think Trump sees it the same way. He was one ya know and he has never been particularly friendly to the Republican Party itself.

Heck, the tea party itself spends more time attacking the GOP than the democrats. Which has allowed the Democrats to fortify their defense. While the GOP has been getting attacked on two fronts since 2008 and now three with Trump in there. Paul Ryan is right to suggest that Trump is offering fake unity, and I see Hillary and the Democrats really unifying at this point.

The nail in the coffin for Trump might be whatever offensive thing he plans for the Convention. It's going to be flashy and different, but that's not necessarily good. It could turn into a real circus! Complete with scantily clad acrobats

My guess is that viewership for both conventions will probably be higher than they have for decadees and decades.

I'm going to enjoy both conventions...and I dare say we will see drama and political intrigue to rival any of the stuff on the fiction shows. I also guess that this election will be fodder for more political novels than any election before in history.

If nothing else...it does increase American awareness of the process.

That can be a very good thing. (fingers crossed)
 

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I think Hillary will most certainly stoop to that level, the democrats are pretty much ignored when they go there by the MSM.
That's your opinion - mine differs - but, fair enough.

While that may be true as regards Trump's fight with fellow GOPers, the "Lying" and "Crooked" part actually fits nicely with the persona even Dems and, for sure the Independents, already have of over the Hillary and her proven liar husband, Billy boy toy Clinton. The recent twitter salvo with o t Hillary positing that Trump should "delete" his account, while initially seeming brilliant to her sycophants, was such a ironically dumb choice of words with all her email deletion problems. Trump/team pounced right on it, clobbered her on such a stupid mistake.

She isn't presidential, she can only attempt to put on the fake smile and pretend, with Bill at her side perhaps.
I've been out of the news loop the past few days, so I have no knowledge of this Twitter development and can't debate it, so I'll defer to you on this detail.

But i will comment that my point was not about the (possible) validity of Mr. Trump's comments, but the tone & choice of rhetoric, and whether that tone & rhetoric attracts or repels Dems & Indies. I believe it will turn-off this voter segment in excess of those it will attract.

Not the most profound or expository reply I've ever received, but I'll take it! :thumbs:
 

Chomsky

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Amazing how the Republican Party has managed to work ITSELF into the position in which it finds itself right now.

It is a marvel that they managed to do it to themselves with almost no help from the Democrats.

Right now, the Republican Party is not fit to run itself, let alone the most powerful country on the planet.

Part of me wants to see them destroyed in this next election, but I understand and appreciate the need for a STRONG loyal opposition.

Get your act together Republicans. You have a responsibility to the rest of us. Jumping into a volcano the way you are is not acting responsibly.
I think this is a nicely balanced reply, especially the last two paragraphs.

I abhor the GOP, and for years wished they would drop-off the face of the earth. I'm speaking of the Party elite & establishment here, not necessarily my fellow American rank & file voters. But you bring-up a good point: I'm not to crazy about seeing the Dems in full unfettered control of the country either; well, at least those of the Hillary variety! I could handle Bernie though, I believe.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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But i will comment that my point was not about the (possible) validity of Mr. Trump's comments, but the tone & choice of rhetoric, and whether that tone & rhetoric attracts or repels Dems & Indies. I believe it will turn-off this voter segment in excess of those it will attract.
I would agree that the tone/choice of rhetoric utilized by Trump is often poor, but it is at least as often poorly reported/misconstrued. The media, so quick to attempt to destroy him, often implies meanings that Trump himself simply did not. He is bad enough on his own, but with media making stuff up it gives his words, dramatically not politically correct, more strength to those who at least occasionally follow with some interest... and the general populace, now onto the fact that mainstream media too often slants things to favor one side or the other, so that we, the people, know to take what they say with a grain of salt and skepticism.

Add to that the Occupy, Black Lives Matter, anti-Trump violent protesters, etc... movements that have been either psychically or vocally attempting to keep other Americans from expressing their opinions...well , you end up with a person like Trump willing to throw out all the rules. He understands that if he plays by the rules, with the referees virtually under the thumb/controlled by an amorphous "establishment", a thing that he cannot specifically attack since it is so so nebulous...if he plays by their rules, he necessarily will lose. This Janus faced establishment will see to that becoming fact.

So, a lot of us are forced, by dint of two terrible candidates, into a willingness to take a chance on the outsider on the outside chance that he may actually break the hold that the ruling classes, that back both sides because they control both sides, have over the rest of us.

Now that we have actually arrived at the point of looking at what the choices are, this has to be one of the most "lesser of two evils" elections in living memory.

I only have hope that Trump will change us back to being more like what and how we were pre GWBush-pre BHObama. Hard to believe that a conservative might yearn for, however maladjusted a person he was, the pragmatic Bill Clinton administration days ... Over the Hillary, though having the name Clinton, has no intention of accomplishing that. She will be a continuation of the multiple poor paths taken by Obama domestically and she and Obama's shared weak decisions in the foreign policy realm.

Btw, I appreciate your generally even handed approach replying to opposing posts. I try, but when the other side gets smarmy, I am more apt to swing at/swat such annoying mosquitoes with a sledge hammer. Guess my ration of tolerance we Americans have traditonally been taught to extend to others was used up by the end of the GW beginning of the BO era.
 

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I am surprised to see Trump failing at his own game. I half expected the Clinton political machine to destroy Trump, but not this quickly. I don't think there is much Trump can do to bring other people onto his train. Not in the direction he has taken recently anyway. He managed to capture the tea party market and that's about it. He kept on saying that during the primaries, he didn't focus on Clinton because he he wanted to save all his attacks on her for after he won the nomination. So now it's been a month in, and I don't think any of his attacks have stuck to it. She seems to wash them right off.

The reasons for this may be:
1. Trump has got HUGE secrets on Hillary that he hasn't let slip yet. (highly doubtful)
2. Democrat Unity.
3. The Clinton Staff and Political Campaign teams.
3. Republican queasiness about Trump himself.
4. His attacks are just really name-calling, full of fluff, and not much else.
5. He has no national network and his yes men are pretty bad at defending him.
6. Lack of central message.

So what do you think? Are Trump's attacks working?

He managed to capture the tea party market? Upon what do you base that?
 

NeverTrump

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Maybe I don't get twitter but "delete your account" seems pretty lowbrow.

Surely you know that Trump mostly uses twitter as an outlet to get into petty arguments with people. Hillary uses twitter for campaigning. Big difference


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NeverTrump

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He managed to capture the tea party market? Upon what do you base that?

He made the birther movement into what it is today and just went from there. Pretty easy to connect the dots


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Clearly the same tactics that work on the tea party crowd do NOT work on the average independent. Even Mitch McConnell says Trump is ignorant on the issues, which is why he calls people names and avoids the issues, other than to say he'll be great. I'm sorry, he's not selling me that pig in a poke. Name calling is 3 year old behavior. Temperamentally, he is not suited by be president.
 
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