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Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Howler63

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.
 

NeverTrump

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

There are more scenarios here than you said. Trump doesn't seem to want to try too hard to win, playing a If it happens it happens defense. There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is a con-man playing off the edges of right-wing hysteria for his own political gain and power and he is having way too much fun doing this. IMO this was made clear after his ugly comments on abortion during one of the townhalls. I know for a fact Trump really doesn't believe what he said about punishing women for having abortions. He was just trying to interpret what he thinks the hard-right wing voters are saying. I can easily see him swindling people saying, "You know I really don't believe this stuff, I have them eating out of my hand." Jeb Bush said it best a few days ago, when he said "people will feel betrayed by Trump."

I think Bill urged him to run, they had a very interesting phone call right before people jumped in. Now I think he was hoping that trump would be laughed off the stage around this time. However, with all that is going on, I think the tide has turned. Trump actually has a shot to win this thing as he is targeting the key states while the Clinton's seem to be running around like a chicken without its head. They have buyer's remorse, if they urged Trump to run but they play the long game really well, and aren't quite finished with this clown.
 

Howler63

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There are more scenarios here than you said. Trump doesn't seem to want to try too hard to win, playing a If it happens it happens defense. There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is a con-man playing off the edges of right-wing hysteria for his own political gain and power and he is having way too much fun doing this. IMO this was made clear after his ugly comments on abortion during one of the townhalls. I know for a fact Trump really doesn't believe what he said about punishing women for having abortions. He was just trying to interpret what he thinks the hard-right wing voters are saying. I can easily see him swindling people saying, "You know I really don't believe this stuff, I have them eating out of my hand." Jeb Bush said it best a few days ago, when he said "people will feel betrayed by Trump."

I think Bill urged him to run, hoping that trump would be laughed off the stage around this time. However, with all that is going on, I think the tide has turned. Trump actually has a shot to win this thing as he is targeting the key states while the Clinton's seem to be running around like a chicken without its head. They have buyer's remorse, if they urged Trump to run but they play the long game really well, and aren't quite finished with this clown.


I think you could be right with the exception of one thing. Trump can not and will not win.
 

NeverTrump

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I think you could be right with the exception of one thing. Trump can not and will not win.

We may hope so and want that, but all the polls show he has the chance in the swing states.
 

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Not even close and this belongs firmly in the CT forum.
 

NeverTrump

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clownboy

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No this is a legitimate question and one that bothers many people. If someone is not using him to run, why is he acting so idiotic and why does he have two faces? His two-faced hypocrisy is well
recorded.

One Donald Trump Says There Are Two Donald Trumps, Other Trump Says There's One | The Weekly Standard

No it doesn't and most folks look and laugh at the sheer CT silliness of this effort to paint them as the same or working in collusion. It's only a matter of time before someone brings the Illuminati and ET into it.
 

NeverTrump

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No it doesn't and most folks look and laugh at the sheer CT silliness of this effort to paint them as the same or working in collusion. It's only a matter of time before someone bring the Illuminati and ET into it.

It's funny that with his well known liberal connections and with the available evidence you refuse to even think it could be a possibility. Tell me again how he has the best brain ever...
 

MaggieD

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

Just can't accept that Americans are sick and tired can you?

IMO, DT wouldn't collude with anyone. Not a chance. Everything to lose. And what to gain?

This belongs in the Conspiracy forum.
 

clownboy

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It's funny that with his well known liberal connections and with the available evidence you refuse to even think it could be a possibility. Tell me again how he has the best brain ever...

:lamo Which is what all conspiracy theorists fall back upon. Might want to lay off the new History Channel's programming for a bit. Ancient Aliens is steering you in the wrong direction.
 

NeverTrump

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Just can't accept that Americans are sick and tired can you?

IMO, DT wouldn't collude with anyone. Not a chance. Everything to lose. And what to gain?

This belongs in the Conspiracy forum.

Trump loves attention, collusion could be simple as Billy saying that it would be a great idea for Trump to run. It's clear Trump doesn't believe half of what he says, so... That's the EXACT reason he's doing it. Just for the attention. I think it was a shock to everybody involved how "well" he upended the primary.
 

mike2810

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imo, this election may have the worst turn out in many years. Why, imo many people don't like either candidate. For me, right now I am not sure if its worth voting this year. It will be the first time in in my life I may not vote. Only hope I see is Congress can keep things in check no matter which candidate gets in.
 

Skeptic Bob

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Definitely belongs in the CT forum. I'm the first to laugh at conspiracy theories and I have ridiculed people who suggest Trump is running in order to ensure a Hillary victory. But when things like this plagiarized speech happen I can kind of see where they are coming from. Kind of.
 

jamesrage

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No it doesn't and most folks look and laugh at the sheer CT silliness of this effort to paint them as the same or working in collusion. It's only a matter of time before someone brings the Illuminati and ET into it.


Trump has spent years courting Hillary and other Dems - POLITICO
Donald Trump jumped into the crowded and rowdy Republican presidential field on Tuesday, but the business magnate has astutely played both sides of the aisle for years, and has been especially cozy — financially and personally — with Hillary Clinton.

Clinton, the Democratic front-runner and former New York senator who had some say over policy that could have impacted Trump’s vast business dealings, received donations from both him and son Donald Trump Jr. on separate occasions in 2002, 2005, 2006 and 2007, according to state and federal disclosure records.

Trump has also been generous with the Clinton Foundation, donating at least $100,000, according to the non-profit.

In another sign of their closeness, Clinton attended Trump’s 2005 wedding to current wife Melania Knauss at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida, along with the likes of Katie Couric, Billy Joel and then-“American Idol” judge Simon Cowell. (According to People, Clinton had front-pew seating. Though Bill missed the ceremony itself, he did show up to the reception.)

Read more: Trump has spent years courting Hillary and other Dems - POLITICO
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...rote-hillary-clinton-would-be-great-president
Getty Images

Donald Trump praised Hillary Clinton during the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, saying that she would make a “great president.”

BuzzFeed News unearthed the comments, made in a 2008 blog post.

“Hillary Clinton said she’d consider naming Barack Obama as her vice-president when she gets the nomination, but she’s nowhere near a shoo-in,” the real estate mogul wrote about the tight 2008 Democratic primary between Clinton and then-Illinois Sen. Obama.

“For his part, Obama said he’s just focused on winning the nomination, although at least one member of his team said Clinton would make a good vice-president. (I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president or vice-president.).”


When Donald Trump Praised Hillary Clinton
When Clinton last ran for office, Trump was torn between supporting her and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. ” They’re both terrific people, and I hope they both get the nomination,” he told CNN in 2007, adding that he thought Clinton would surround herself with good people to negotiate a deal with Iran. A year later, Trump wondered publicly why Clinton wasn’t chosen as President Obama’s running-mate.

In 2012, as Obama was running for re-election, Trump called Clinton “terrific” again in an interview with Fox News, saying she performed well as Secretary of State.

“Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman,” he told Greta Van Susteren. “I am biased because I have known her for years. I live in New York. She lives in New York. I really like her and her husband both a lot. I think she really works hard. And I think, again, she’s given an agenda, it is not all of her, but I think she really works hard and I think she does a good job. I like her.
 

jamesrage

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

Considering his closeness to the Clintons I say collusion.
 

Marvan Buren

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I think Bill urged him to run, they had a very interesting phone call right before people jumped in. Now I think he was hoping that trump would be laughed off the stage around this time. However, with all that is going on, I think the tide has turned. Trump actually has a shot to win this thing as he is targeting the key states while the Clinton's seem to be running around like a chicken without its head. They have buyer's remorse, if they urged Trump to run but they play the long game really well, and aren't quite finished with this clown.

I think it makes total sense that Bill would have urged Trump to get in. I am quite sure that Bill never expected Trump to get the nomination but perhaps he hoped that Trump would attract Republicans who more socially liberal. Also, he may have thought that Trump's non-doctrinaire thinking on issues of taxes and national defense might sway other Republicans to challenge conservative orthodoxy. Once Trump was defeated, his followers would then be potential targets for the Clinton campaign to convert.

Bill's political instincts, though, aren't what they used to be. Because Trump is now directly facing Hillary, the people Trump wound up attracting will never become Clinton supporters and, in fact, are going to pose a major headache to her ability to govern, should she be elected. They will never accept her and will continue to vilify her and undermine her every move - and so will the Congressional representatives they elect.

My final answer to the question is that there is both collusion and (what we deem to be) idiocy. Initially there was collusion with both Trump and Clinton thinking they could use the other for their own personal goals. That collusion is now over. Trump is running his own campaign and he is a political neophyte who believes that because he won the Republican nomination, he is smarter than everyone else. The scary part, of course, is that perhaps he's right. I, for one, thought that his candidacy was dead after he said he likes soldiers that don't get captured.
 

Howler63

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Just can't accept that Americans are sick and tired can you?

IMO, DT wouldn't collude with anyone. Not a chance. Everything to lose. And what to gain?

This belongs in the Conspiracy forum.



So then which is it? Is he a Clinton patsy or a moron?
 

NeverTrump

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I think it makes total sense that Bill would have urged Trump to get in. I am quite sure that Bill never expected Trump to get the nomination but perhaps he hoped that Trump would attract Republicans who more socially liberal. Also, he may have thought that Trump's non-doctrinaire thinking on issues of taxes and national defense might sway other Republicans to challenge conservative orthodoxy. Once Trump was defeated, his followers would then be potential targets for the Clinton campaign to convert.

Bill's political instincts, though, aren't what they used to be. Because Trump is now directly facing Hillary, the people Trump wound up attracting will never become Clinton supporters and, in fact, are going to pose a major headache to her ability to govern, should she be elected. They will never accept her and will continue to vilify her and undermine her every move - and so will the Congressional representatives they elect.

My final answer to the question is that there is both collusion and (what we deem to be) idiocy. Initially there was collusion with both Trump and Clinton thinking they could use the other for their own personal goals. That collusion is now over. Trump is running his own campaign and he is a political neophyte who believes that because he won the Republican nomination, he is smarter than everyone else. The scary part, of course, is that perhaps he's right. I, for one, thought that his candidacy was dead after he said he likes soldiers that don't get captured.

I think what happened is that the Clinton's really didn't want to run against Bush. They didn't want that match up to tarnish their legacy. They didn't want this election to be remembered as two political dynasties fighting it out. They didn't want to share the spotlight. So they threw in a wild card called Donald Trump. It would be better to beat a Trump than a Bush. It would be easier too...So they thought. I think Trump really wanted to destroy the Bush legacy anyway and with Bill's blessing he marched on. You can tell by the way he demonizes Bush and keeps on bringing up his tenure in office like what most liberals tend to do.

Now, the Clinton's are appalled by what Trump has done by appealing to the extreme right wing. It's also why no great celebs are at the convention. Though Trump hoped they would be and even promised us that this will be different. They don't want to be associated with Republicans let alone Trump's brand.
 
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justabubba

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

i have also wondered 'is tRump trying to lose?' but the donald is a strange fellow. he tends to want to push into those parts of society from which he was never extended an invitation. here is what i think was the incident that most inspired tRump to seek the white house; this was a devastating instance of disrespect from which he has never recovered ... and never will unless he wins this election:
 

Howler63

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i have also wondered 'is tRump trying to lose?' but the donald is a strange fellow. he tends to want to push into those parts of society from which he was never extended an invitation. here is what i think was the incident that most inspired tRump to seek the white house; this was a devastating instance of disrespect from which he has never recovered ... and never will unless he wins this election:

But how? It's not like he's running against Obama.
 

beerftw

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

You could call it a doublecross of the gop, but what if it was a double double cross with hillary pretenting to be the chosen one to elect trump, who was secretly in bed with all the donors the whole time?

Or maybe trump does not care, if it was a double cross it is the worst in history, trump has kept up pace with nearly no spending while hillary is spending like a drunken sailor to barely maintain a lead. If hillary wanted a plant, trump was the worst choice.
 

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I am not a man given to wild speculation. I am firmly planted in reality with a healthy level of cynicism in the tank. However, after these past few months, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trump campaign is either a Trojan horse meant to hand the election to Hillary on a silver platter, or the biggest gaggle of morons ever to grace the political arena.
On the one hand there is ample evidence that Trump and Clinton are either working together, or they're using him to secure the White House for Hillary. In the first case, he's an old family friend and they know each other very well. Not to mention that he's campaigning on the cheap, not assembling anything close to a ground game, and he is constantly firing off misstep, after misstep, after misstep.

In the second case, the Clinton's know Trump very well. They knew that his uncouth rhetoric and xenophobic hyperbole would play well with the reactive Republican base. They knew the right-wing factions would gravitate to a guy wanting to 'build a wall', 'deport millions' and institute a religious litmus test for immigration. They know how despised political correctness is among the 'Tea Party' groups and they knew that if they could just stoke the fires enough to get him past the primaries, then they would face a general election opponent with worse favorable's than Hillary.
On the other hand it could be possible that Trump and his apparatus are the largest collection of political Neanderthals since the Neolithic age. Is it possible that he's some sort of stupidity black hole? Drawing other idiots to him like retarded moths to a vacuous flame? Could anyone worth billions actually be that incompetent?

And here are our choices. Are they in collusion? Are the Clinton's using Trump? Or is Trump an idiot?

Truthfully, I'm torn. The evidence to suggest that Trump is in cahoots with the Clinton's, is pretty much the same evidence that it's all some horrible game of patty cake between simple minded children. I think I would feel better if it were collusion. Because anyone as stupid and ill prepared as Trump getting this far, says so much about a good portion of my fellow Americans that I'd rather not accept.

I've wondered that since day #1.
 
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