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Are the people nice? Are the people good?

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
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'Willful Ignorance.' Inside President Trump's Troubled Intelligence Briefings


Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time


Dereliction of duty is not illegal, but, depending on the gravity of it and reasonably assessed serious consequences, it could be one of the items on a Senate or Congress's ( not sure who would initially write it up) articles of impeachment.

Willful ignorance might seem innocuous if we are talking about policies on whether or not the gov should keep track of the profits of horse breeders) but it could altogether something far more serious if we are talking about ignorance of intelligence briefs if they were about a foreign country developing a super weapon for which we cannot fight back on any viable level unless we act now as the window of safety is closing rapidly.


This article in Time Magazine goes into great detail about how Trump's willful ignorance of intelligence briefs are a serious threat to America's national security.


The sad thing is, there are so many 5 alarms sounding currently, people are getting used to them and are now not thinking that much about it.

Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time

Citing multiple in-person episodes, these intelligence officials say Trump displays what one called “willful ignorance” when presented with analyses generated by America’s $81 billion-a-year intelligence services. The officials, who include analysts who prepare Trump’s briefs and the briefers themselves, describe futile attempts to keep his attention by using visual aids, confining some briefing points to two or three sentences, and repeating his name and title as frequently as possible.

And this one is most alarming.

What is most troubling, say these officials and others in government and on Capitol Hill who have been briefed on the episodes, are Trump’s angry reactions when he is given information that contradicts positions he has taken or beliefs he holds. Two intelligence officers even reported that they have been warned to avoid giving the President intelligence assessments that contradict stances he has taken in public.

What is happening that those intel officers who contradict the Prez after something he said on TV, he cuts off access. This happened to Kelly, McMaster, and no doubt many others who are no longer there. They lose access, they feel they are not valued and there work has no value to the president, and they leave.

I don't think republicans understand how serious this is to our national security, in an ever shrinking intel officer pool


The problem has existed since the beginning of Trump’s presidency, the intelligence officials say, and for a time they tried to respond to the President’s behavior in briefings with dark humor. After a briefing in preparation for a meeting with British Prime Minister Theresa May, for example, the subject turned to the British Indian Ocean Territory of Diego Garcia. The island is home to an important airbase and a U.S. Naval Support Facility that are central to America’s ability to project power in the region, including in the war in Afghanistan.

The President, officials familiar with the briefing said, asked two questions: Are the people nice, and are the beaches good? “Some of us wondered if he was thinking about our alliance with the Brits and the security issues in an important area where the Chinese have been increasingly active, or whether he was thinking like a real estate developer,” one of the officials said wryly.

I understand that the knee jerk reaction by right wingers will be, well, not even to read it or gloss over it, and say, "TDS, jobs are up, this is not important".

That, too, is alarming. It would be like you are standing on the Titanic, and someone from the boiler room comes up and shouts "Hull has been breached, waters coming ini", and you brush your lapel with your fingers, and think, please don't bore me with this, the food is delicious, and the music is lovely."

Well, history's record of such consequences is more than well known.

It's like he doesn't care, he's got his way of thinking and that is that. He doesn't grasp the danger he is to the national security of the United States, for only "he can fix it", and "he knows more than the generals" , and " intel told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction and bush should go to war (therefore they are wrong all the time)

Well, I hate to tell you, Mr. Trump, that line about WND and the intel report that supposedly led to Bush's decision to go to war didn't actually say that, not by any stretch of the imagination. No matter, you wouldn't read it, anyway.



,
 
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I'm guessing Trump isn't using his PDB as a political weapon the way his predecessor did.

Anyway, I'm not worried about Trump's methods of decision making. Let me know when he starts a war, though.
 
Trump is about distraction, deception, disloyalty.

He's for each of 'em.

All of 'em and more. And His Fanboyz love it.
 
I'm guessing Trump isn't using his PDB as a political weapon the way his predecessor did.

Anyway, I'm not worried about Trump's methods of decision making. Let me know when he starts a war, though.


Yeah, I get it, ignorance is bliss.
 
I'm guessing Trump isn't using his PDB as a political weapon the way his predecessor did.

Anyway, I'm not worried about Trump's methods of decision making. Let me know when he starts a war, though.

Trump has already started a war. He's pitting Americans against Americans. ( divide and conquer ) ........next....
 
'Willful Ignorance.' Inside President Trump's Troubled Intelligence Briefings


Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time


Dereliction of duty is not illegal, but, depending on the gravity of it and reasonably assessed serious consequences, it could be one of the items on a Senate or Congress's ( not sure who would initially write it up) articles of impeachment.

Willful ignorance might seem innocuous if we are talking about policies on whether or not the gov should keep track of the profits of horse breeders) but it could altogether something far more serious if we are talking about ignorance of intelligence briefs if they were about a foreign country developing a super weapon for which we cannot fight back on any viable level unless we act now as the window of safety is closing rapidly.


This article in Time Magazine goes into great detail about how Trump's willful ignorance of intelligence briefs are a serious threat to America's national security.


The sad thing is, there are so many 5 alarms sounding currently, people are getting used to them and are now not thinking that much about it.



And this one is most alarming.



What is happening that those intel officers who contradict the Prez after something he said on TV, he cuts off access. This happened to Kelly, McMaster, and no doubt many others who are no longer there. They lose access, they feel they are not valued and there work has no value to the president, and they leave.

I don't think republicans understand how serious this is to our national security, in an ever shrinking intel officer pool




I understand that the knee jerk reaction by right wingers will be, well, not even to read it or gloss over it, and say, "TDS, jobs are up, this is not important".

That, too, is alarming. It would be like you are standing on the Titanic, and someone from the boiler room comes up and shouts "Hull has been breached, waters coming ini", and you brush your lapel with your fingers, and think, please don't bore me with this, the food is delicious, and the music is lovely."

Well, history's record of such consequences is more than well known.

It's like he doesn't care, he's got his way of thinking and that is that. He doesn't grasp the danger he is to the national security of the United States, for only "he can fix it", and "he knows more than the generals" , and " intel told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction and bush should go to war (therefore they are wrong all the time)

Well, I hate to tell you, Mr. Trump, that line about WND and the intel report that supposedly led to Bush's decision to go to war didn't actually say that, not by any stretch of the imagination. No matter, you wouldn't read it, anyway.



,

President Moron and his supporting band of useful idiots
 
Trump has already started a war. He's pitting Americans against Americans. ( divide and conquer ) ........next....

I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. So either you're omitting that he and his supporters have been getting attacked since before the election finished, or you're excusing it.

Which is it?
 
'Willful Ignorance.' Inside President Trump's Troubled Intelligence Briefings


Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time


Dereliction of duty is not illegal, but, depending on the gravity of it and reasonably assessed serious consequences, it could be one of the items on a Senate or Congress's ( not sure who would initially write it up) articles of impeachment.

Willful ignorance might seem innocuous if we are talking about policies on whether or not the gov should keep track of the profits of horse breeders) but it could altogether something far more serious if we are talking about ignorance of intelligence briefs if they were about a foreign country developing a super weapon for which we cannot fight back on any viable level unless we act now as the window of safety is closing rapidly.


This article in Time Magazine goes into great detail about how Trump's willful ignorance of intelligence briefs are a serious threat to America's national security.


The sad thing is, there are so many 5 alarms sounding currently, people are getting used to them and are now not thinking that much about it.



And this one is most alarming.



What is happening that those intel officers who contradict the Prez after something he said on TV, he cuts off access. This happened to Kelly, McMaster, and no doubt many others who are no longer there. They lose access, they feel they are not valued and there work has no value to the president, and they leave.

I don't think republicans understand how serious this is to our national security, in an ever shrinking intel officer pool




I understand that the knee jerk reaction by right wingers will be, well, not even to read it or gloss over it, and say, "TDS, jobs are up, this is not important".

That, too, is alarming. It would be like you are standing on the Titanic, and someone from the boiler room comes up and shouts "Hull has been breached, waters coming ini", and you brush your lapel with your fingers, and think, please don't bore me with this, the food is delicious, and the music is lovely."

Well, history's record of such consequences is more than well known.

It's like he doesn't care, he's got his way of thinking and that is that. He doesn't grasp the danger he is to the national security of the United States, for only "he can fix it", and "he knows more than the generals" , and " intel told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction and bush should go to war (therefore they are wrong all the time)

Well, I hate to tell you, Mr. Trump, that line about WND and the intel report that supposedly led to Bush's decision to go to war didn't actually say that, not by any stretch of the imagination. No matter, you wouldn't read it, anyway.



,

Wow, listen to that red herring sizzle.
 
I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. So either you're omitting that he and his supporters have been getting attacked since before the election finished, or you're excusing it.

Which is it?

It's that what goes around comes around.

At this point Trump's boomerang is coming back at him and headed right up the crack in his ass.

We'll hear him when it happens coming soon.
 
It's that what goes around comes around.

At this point Trump's boomerang is coming back at him and headed right up the crack in his ass.

We'll hear him when it happens coming soon.

So excusing it then.

Good to know.
 
I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. So either you're omitting that he and his supporters have been getting attacked since before the election finished, or you're excusing it.

Which is it?

/// I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. /// <----- Thanks for validating my claim. That was extemely easy.
 
/// I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. /// <----- Thanks for validating my claim. That was extemely easy.

So attacking someone in an unprovoked fashion is fine, yet retaliating is out of the question?

Also, seeing as you neglected to answer the question. I can surmise that you most likely excuse those actions as well, correct?
 
So excusing it then.

Good to know.

The nation is divided and that is fact.

What Trump expanded and intensified is coming back at him as well it should and as you over there should expect it to.

So now you're back on your heels in denials, deflections, accusations and whining in addition to the usual whinging.

Trump and His Fanboys are the new Lost Cause.
 
The nation is divided and that is fact.

What Trump expanded and intensified is coming back at him as well it should and as you over there should expect it to.

So now you're back on your heels in denials, deflections, accusations and whining in addition to the usual whinging.

Trump and His Fanboys are the new Lost Cause.

Is that something that you would solely lay at Trumps feet?
 
The Putin-Trump Fanboys.

Then you're just as lost as I thought you were.

Omitting history for your own benefit... seems to be a constant thing with you Tangmo.
 
'Willful Ignorance.' Inside President Trump's Troubled Intelligence Briefings


Donald Trump Rejects Intelligence Briefing Facts | Time


Dereliction of duty is not illegal, but, depending on the gravity of it and reasonably assessed serious consequences, it could be one of the items on a Senate or Congress's ( not sure who would initially write it up) articles of impeachment.

Willful ignorance might seem innocuous if we are talking about policies on whether or not the gov should keep track of the profits of horse breeders) but it could altogether something far more serious if we are talking about ignorance of intelligence briefs if they were about a foreign country developing a super weapon for which we cannot fight back on any viable level unless we act now as the window of safety is closing rapidly.


This article in Time Magazine goes into great detail about how Trump's willful ignorance of intelligence briefs are a serious threat to America's national security.


The sad thing is, there are so many 5 alarms sounding currently, people are getting used to them and are now not thinking that much about it.



And this one is most alarming.



What is happening that those intel officers who contradict the Prez after something he said on TV, he cuts off access. This happened to Kelly, McMaster, and no doubt many others who are no longer there. They lose access, they feel they are not valued and there work has no value to the president, and they leave.

I don't think republicans understand how serious this is to our national security, in an ever shrinking intel officer pool




I understand that the knee jerk reaction by right wingers will be, well, not even to read it or gloss over it, and say, "TDS, jobs are up, this is not important".

That, too, is alarming. It would be like you are standing on the Titanic, and someone from the boiler room comes up and shouts "Hull has been breached, waters coming ini", and you brush your lapel with your fingers, and think, please don't bore me with this, the food is delicious, and the music is lovely."

Well, history's record of such consequences is more than well known.

It's like he doesn't care, he's got his way of thinking and that is that. He doesn't grasp the danger he is to the national security of the United States, for only "he can fix it", and "he knows more than the generals" , and " intel told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction and bush should go to war (therefore they are wrong all the time)

Well, I hate to tell you, Mr. Trump, that line about WND and the intel report that supposedly led to Bush's decision to go to war didn't actually say that, not by any stretch of the imagination. No matter, you wouldn't read it, anyway.
,

What do Times reporters know about handling secret government affairs or how the president must guide this nation through national threats all around us? Most of those young journalism graduates should be happy the liberal schools they graduated from graded on a steep bell curve. They can barely read and write anymore compared to journalists of several decades ago. They are not qualified to second guess the studied decisions the president and his advisers make on our behalf.
 
Many Democrats and liberals are throwing a hissy fit that President Trump does not go to war against Russia in Syria. It appears there is no war the Democratic Party does not want - except against their financial backer - China. They want the USA to surrender to China.
 
Then you're just as lost as I thought you were.

Omitting history for your own benefit... seems to be a constant thing with you Tangmo.

Denial to deflection to error.

There's nothing constructive or positive coming from the Right.

It's always focus on the enemy because you have nothing of merit to present or promote.

And now you guys are back on your heels.








Many Democrats and liberals are throwing a hissy fit that President Trump does not go to war against Russia in Syria. It appears there is no war the Democratic Party does not want - except against their financial backer - China. They want the USA to surrender to China.

The post seems to have arrived in a pod from space. Perhaps everyone should check his garden.

Here on earth meantime Trump and Bolton with the enthusiastic support of Pentagon are zeroing in on Iran. They mean to take it for us. Get it back after all these lost decades of ayatollahs. Kill two birds with one stone by making SA, Israel and virtually all the ME happy except of course for Assad and Putin. Which would leave their days numbered there too. Trump does hate China but that will have to be a work around to eventually leave 'em dangling alone out there. Stranger things have happened eh.
 
Denial to deflection to error.

There's nothing constructive or positive coming from the Right.

It's always focus on the enemy because you have nothing of merit to present or promote.

And now you guys are back on your heels.

I would actually have to be on my heels for once Tangmo. A state that I'm glad to say that you've never been able to push me to.

However, seeing as I have you stuck repeating the same canned lines over and over. It's obvious who here has no real place to go.

Don't worry though. I'm going to save you the embarrassment and give you an out this time.
 
I don't recall him ever doing that, without the other side doing it first. So either you're omitting that he and his supporters have been getting attacked since before the election finished, or you're excusing it.

Which is it?

Well, Trump is the guy who encouraged his faithful to violence against someone who disagreed with him. But I guess that guy started it. Everything is liberals' fault.
 
Well, Trump is the guy who encouraged his faithful to violence against someone who disagreed with him. But I guess that guy started it. Everything is liberals' fault.

I'm going to bet that you're talking that completely out of context.

So why don't you go and cite me the instance in which he was speaking in that way and then we can continue from there.
 
I'm going to bet that you're talking that completely out of context.

So why don't you go and cite me the instance in which he was speaking in that way and then we can continue from there.

Trump told his supporters to punch the opposition in the face and he would pay their legal bills. The question remains...…...how can you be so wrong and not know it? Lack of brain cells. LMAO!
 
This is a hard enough time for the US to find its way in the world without having an ignorant fool in the WH insisting that he is smarter than all of his Intel chiefs when in fact he is if anything as ignorant as a tree stump.

This is truly the most difficult period in our modern history. Ascendency is easy compared to the circumstance we are in today. Deciding to become a WW1 belligerent involved much political angst but in the end was easy to justify. We literally had no choice in WW2. Left with a world around us in rubble after WW2 we were the default top dog confronted by a single major adversary. Again, not a terribly complicated geopolitical environment.

We tripped ourselves up here and there from the end of WW2 through to Nixon's Presidency with Vietnam the most notable screwup. But it was hard to hurt ourselves too much because it was by comparison a fairly uncomplicated geopolitical environment for us to manage. From Nixon forward, we have tried to deal with how to be not just the top dog but the benevolent top dog. That was a rational choice, certainly more rational than insulting and belittling allies and blustering about like some tin horn Dictatorship. However, its that well understood and oft exercised lack of American patience that has caused us to do rather poorly in this effort to be the benevolent top dog.

The task set before us from Nixon through to today was to be nimble and flexible in our approach to the rest of the world. We tend to be too impatient for such subtlety. For example, if you are going to pull back your engagement in parts of the world, you can not do it unilaterally cutting across a wide swath of influences. You cannot for example pull back politically, economically and militarily all at the same time in the same places. That is what we are trying in the Middle East for example and we are tripping over our ding-dongs every step of the way. Saudi is a good example.

We have less need for Saudi oil which means we have been letting go economically. At the same time we have little interest in maintaining our military and even our political interests in the Middle East. You tell me how much sense it makes to turn the Middle East over to potentates that while actually being no more cosmopolitan, urban or interested in geopolitics than your standard camel jockey potentates of several centuries past but that can now reach out and touch you with a few keystrokes on a computer? Anybody that thinks Crown Prince MBS or his father are any more "civilized" than their predecessors needs to remind themselves of the Khashoggi incident.

Couple our standard lack of patience with linkage to what has probably been the most damaging Empire in modern history, that being the British Empire and we have put ourselves in a rather dicy spot. Syria....Syria is not even a country really. Syria is one of those post WW1 British concoctions. It has no history, no tradition, no interest in maintaining or defending its borders. Christ, it had no borders before the British started playing pin the tail on the donkey with maps. It is simply a breeding ground for terror and problems. It will not likely ever be more than that. But we have the most to lose in leaving it to fend for itself. Iran....a real country with real traditions and real history that the UK frigged over to their hearts content then passing the torch to us when the UK was so bankrupt that they had to release control of their far flung "Empire" no longer capable of controlling it. We happily took up the torch and and proceeded to frigg Iran over at just about the same pace as the British did. No wonder Iran hates us.

Least I remind you, it was the British that in the main created Israel without making any accommodation at all for the Palestinians as if they were just going to melt away, an utterly Anglo-centric of point of view which we adopted that strained logic then and now.

Iraq....stepped on our ding-dongs again. Thank you Bush 43. Saudi, we are kidding ourselves. We are feeding them arms and they are selling them to our adversaries. Really nicely done US.

The single high water mark of note in the use of US power and influence all the way from Nixon to today was Bush 41 and the rescue of Kuwait combined with the common sense to leave Saddam in Baghdad. Add Bush 41 and Reagan negotiating a peaceful end to the Cold War and in truth that is all we have to brag about. The rest is honestly pretty ugly whether the name of the the guy in the oval office was Nixon or Carter or Clinton or Ford or "43" or Obama and God help us Donald Trump.

Afghanistan....what in Gods name do we think we are doing with 14,000 troopers on the ground.

Tripping over our ding-dongs in Venezuela as well.

So this is a pretty nasty time to have an infant in the WH as the benevolent top dog is the right course for us to take but it is a difficult task. Trump does not even have the intellectual bandwidth to figure that out.
 
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I would actually have to be on my heels for once Tangmo. A state that I'm glad to say that you've never been able to push me to.

However, seeing as I have you stuck repeating the same canned lines over and over. It's obvious who here has no real place to go.

Don't worry though. I'm going to save you the embarrassment and give you an out this time.

I left already thx anyway.
 
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