Are the EU and UK doing enough to prevent Islamofascism? (1 Viewer)

[liberateamerica]

60% of British Muslims would rather live under shariah law than British Common Law. There have been anti-UK, anti-US, anti-West demonstrations in London itself! The West has to draw the limit sometime about free speech. Saying "Bomb the US and UK" is going too far, and we should arrest those Muslims who spout this anti-Western garbage and propoganda before they actually execute some of the plans they shout. It is imperative that the West fight back against this spreading threat of Nazi-like radical Islam. Mr Bush is correct in fighting the war on terror, he was just not correct on how to do it. (Going into Iraq is not the way to fight the war on terror). Even though some deserving, perfectly harmless Muslims would be hurt, we can't allow this kin of thing to happen any longer. We must protect ourselves, and if it means using extreme measures, then fine. ***HOWEVER***, we must draw the line at taking extreme measures somewhere. We should not become xenophobic or discriminatory just because of radical Islam, we should merely be more alert and ready and we should take measures to defend liberty and our civilisation.

 

[Stupiderthanthou]

60% of British Muslims would rather live under shariah law than British Common Law.

Out of curiosity, where'd you get that number? It sounds like part of a larger study... link? Link? *looks about eagerly*

In answer to your question, it's not that we've done too much or too little so much as the wrong things. I know that that's not much of an answer, but...

IThe West has to draw the limit sometime about free speech.

I think that, generally speaking, it's a mistake to stifle anti-American or UK speech; in foreign countries, it's exactly the sort of "meddling" that will generate more of the same, and at home, there is that whole first amendment thing. Too, I rather suspect that there's no quicker path to losing the moral high ground or alienating moderate Muslims.

It is imperative that the West fight back against this spreading threat of Nazi-like radical Islam.

I don't know how valid the comparison to the Nazis is.

Even though some deserving, perfectly harmless Muslims would be hurt, we can't allow this kin of thing to happen any longer. We must protect ourselves, and if it means using extreme measures, then fine.

Disagreement on this boils down to two fundamental questions, I think: a) do you imprison nine innocent men and one guilty man, or let them all go, and b) simply put, safety or freedom?

"Innocent until proven guilty," the mantra of our legal system, pretty much answers the first one; that Franklin quote (Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety) answers the second.

"Collateral damage" is to be carefully avoided, then... and I can't think of any Extreme Measures that wouldn't take a bite out of Essential Liberty.

We should not become xenophobic or discriminatory just because of radical Islam, we should merely be more alert and ready and we should take measures to defend liberty and our civilisation.

How can you reconcile this with what you said above? You can't have the same liberties you now have and be safer; defending liberty and your life, then, are two different things. Broadly, which course of action are you advocating?

 

[Jay R]

Disappointingly no option for "No we're not and we probably won't":lol:

Its less a question of Islamofascism but rather a wider issue of how we deal with Islam itself. We are deep in a mire at the moment with no consensus and little sensible debate regarding how to integrate Muslims adequately. Unfortunately the only consensus we do have is that to suggest anything bar the absolute primacy of the multiculturalist theory must mean you are a dirty racist. Silly I know but that's Britain, you get used to it.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I don't know how valid the comparison to the Nazis is.

Oh you don't do you?

[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6997579070608486011&q=Grand+Mufti+of+Jerusalem&hl=en[/GVIDEO]

 

[Gardener]

Disappointingly no option for "No we're not and we probably won't":lol:

Its less a question of Islamofascism but rather a wider issue of how we deal with Islam itself. We are deep in a mire at the moment with no consensus and little sensible debate regarding how to integrate Muslims adequately. Unfortunately the only consensus we do have is that to suggest anything bar the absolute primacy of the multiculturalist theory must mean you are a dirty racist. Silly I know but that's Britain, you get used to it.

Multiculturalism is the petard upon which Europe is being hoisted.

When will more Europeans wake up and realize they have been sold such a damaged bill of goods?

 

[Volker]

I voted "Yes, we have done enough" and "I don't know, what's this Islamofascism thing you're talking about". This is maybe kind of contradictory.

When it is about being prevent terrorist attacks with Islamist background I think Europe has made useful steps with politics, police and information. With some issues we went to far in Germany. An example was dragnet investigation, which was legal wildcat and did not lead to many useful results.
With some things we could get better in Germany. An example is observation of radical chat rooms. I heard of three persons, who planned suicide bombings using such a chat room Germany and they have been arrested before they did something stupid. These guys with the suitcase bombs met each other in Internet, too. I'm not too happy about wiretapping internet conversation, but if it helps preventing terrorism, then be it.

Well, I made a cross at "I don't know, what's this Islamofascism thing you're talking about", because I think, it is a stupid propaganda term. It's not clear to me, who is actually meant with it and I don't really care.

People, who don't like multiculturalism because of different reasons, may use such propaganda terms. Reasons for not liking multiculturalism can be lack of knowledge or xenophopia among others.

 

[ptsdkid]

The EU and UK don't prevent Islamofascism--they're doing everything in their power to encourage it. Europe is on a quick slide toward total Sharia (sp) law, and with the liberals in power in America--we're not far behind with that Islamofascist theme here as pointed out by Pat Buchanan in his book "The Death of The West".

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well, I made a cross at "I don't know, what's this Islamofascism thing you're talking about", because I think, it is a stupid propaganda term. It's not clear to me, who is actually meant with it and I don't really care.

This is what it means:

[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6331994107023396223&q=Obsession+Islam+Radical&hl=en
[/GVIDEO]

And this is what it means:

[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6997579070608486011&q=Islam+Nazi&hl=en[/GVIDEO]

 

[Volker]

This is what it means:

Ok, there are propaganda videos out there, but I don't have speaker and I am as smart as before now.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Ok, there are propaganda videos out there, but I don't have speaker and I am as smart as before now.

Are you saying that the Islamic Fascists in their own words and actions is propaganda?

 

[rathi]

This islamfacism stuff is really not an issue. Organized crime and gangs kill off far more people per year in Europe than terrorism. England fought the IRA for decades without sacrificing too many civil liberties, and they ended up fine. Terrorism is really not much of threat compared to internal criminal groups. The real problem with Muslim citizens in the EU is treatment towards women.

 

[Stupiderthanthou]

Oh you don't do you?

No, I don't. The video that you posted was interesting, but it hardly convinced me that radical Islam is broadly similar to Naziism. It is an image splice with very little text; most of the pictures go altogether unexplained, and where there is text, it is either too blurry or too briefly displayed to be read, or in a foreign language. A few of things that stand out in my mind:

- an arm raised in acknowledgment is not necessarily offering the Nazi salute; cosmetic similarities are likely coincidental. There aren't too terribly many different sorts of "body-homages" employed, and I'm pretty sure that that one long predates the rise of the Third Reich.

- swastikas were likewise adopted rather than invented by the Nazis, and have symbolic significance in many different religions. According to the relevant Wikipedia article, mosques a bit older than sixty years have swastikas on their roofs...

- why does it matter that Muslims served in the SS? There were people from plenty of other religions and many different nationalities in that group. There were Austrian Christians in the SS, for example; does anyone today use their pictures to try and equate quiet villagers in the Alps to brutal killers? (Which is not at all to say, I hasten to add, that militant Islamists aren't some of them murderers and terrorists. You understand my point, I think...)

And on a broader level: the fact that there exist pictures of Muslims next to Nazis, the fact that Nazi symbology may possibly have been used by Muslims, hardly mean that Muslims - even Islamist extremists bent on killing innocents - are actually Nazis themselves. They may be "bad dudes," but this does not make them acolytes of Hitler anymore than it does Stalin or Marshal Tito or Genghis Khan.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No, I don't. The video that you posted was interesting, but it hardly convinced me that radical Islam is broadly similar to Naziism.

Islamic Fascism is the direct descendent of the Reich:

FrontPage magazine.com :: The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda by John Loftus

By John Loftus
Jewish Community News | October 4, 2004

It always seems a little strange to have an Irish-Catholic talking about Yom Ha Shoah

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C., and that's where the U.S. government buries its secrets -- literally.

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark”? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

 

[Volker]

Are you saying that the Islamic Fascists in their own words and actions is propaganda?

I don't have speakers here, I don't think someone said "Look, I am one" or so.

 

[Haggwarr]

More than enough I'd say. I think we must see beyond the nine-eleven and open our eyes to see what we are doing to their countries. Haven't they suffered enough by now? Are the EU and the US here to exstinguish the muslims?

I guess not but the reason for me saying that we've done enough is that we're becoming terrible people ourselfs, when we invade, destroy and kill just because the muslims have a different religious background, yes some of the radicals wants to destroy the western world and the US but if we are destroying them, then what better are we?
Take iraq for example, isn't it time to move out the troops now, leave them to take care of themselfs and not be some kind of babysitter who's watching over them 24/7, the americans have made a good job to educate the iraqy police and soldiers and I belive that they can make a splendid job defending their own rights now.

I know that many of you dissagree with me but it's a fact that we ourselfs will become the very terrorists that we are trying to defend ourselfs from.
It's just that it comes from our point of view so in our eyes it looks good and righteous, exactly as the muslims find their cause righteous but from a different point of view.

And by the way those movies are indeed a bit scary to watch since you actually can see a pact made between nazis and radicals, but does this mean that they have the same ideology?

Are you saying that the Islamic Fascists in their own words and actions is propaganda?

Might be, yes.

This islamfacism stuff is really not an issue. Organized crime and gangs kill off far more people per year in Europe than terrorism. England fought the IRA for decades without sacrificing too many civil liberties, and they ended up fine. Terrorism is really not much of threat compared to internal criminal groups. The real problem with Muslim citizens in the EU is treatment towards women.

I agree how often does a terrorist attack occur?, well more people die in heartattacks each year than in a terrorist attack I can pretty much asure you that.

 

[doughgirl]

rathi.............Youve obviously never read the Koran or the Hadiths have you?

And their treatment of woman is bad? Ya think? :rofl

They want global domination, why don't you see that?

 

[Haggwarr]

rathi.............Youve obviously never read the Koran or the Hadiths have you?

And their treatment of woman is bad? Ya think? :rofl

They want global domination, why don't you see that?

Ehhm right, so you mean that the terrorist main objective is to rule the world...

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Ehhm right, so you mean that the terrorist main objective is to rule the world...

Umm ya is that new to you or something? They want to convert or kill every non-Muslim or non radical Muslim worldwide and to establish a global Caliphate under Sharia law.