I do not think that throwing money at the education system is the only way to fix it, however. I do think that there are a lot of things we could do to make the schools better, and money is one of those things.
I'm also not even advocating more money being used for the schools (though that too is a good idea). What I'm saying is that the money we already spend on textbooks I could use far more effectively in other ways.
I hope this clarifies my stance somewhat. I think you and I agree more than we disagree, Bodhisattva. I think my reaction to some of the more ignorant and hostile remarks in the thread may have caused that situation to arise. I hope this remedies that to some extent.
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Completely clarifies your position. Thank you. I hear you and understand. I agree that money could be better spent, but I think that before textbooks go, union representatives and ridiculous programs and grants should be reduced. Textbooks directly benefit students. A lady I know that makes $200,000 a year job for relatively little work as a second language state instructor is idiotic. She kinda agrees, but does it regardless.
At $130 bucks per pop per year (the cost of one textbook) I can do an amazing amount of printing. A ream of paper is what? $5?
Toner is $79 per cartridge that does 1000 pages, and that's on my personal printer at home. The school has a much more efficient printer and gets products at a reduced rate because they buy in bulk.
So even if I use 1,000 activity sheets per student per year (which is absurd), I'd be spending $95 on that student - saving $35 each - even though my personal printer is far less efficient than what I'd actually use - the school's printer.
The reality is though, that I'm not going to give out 1,000 activity sheets to each student each year. I'm not going to print remotely that many items.
Yeah, printing gets expensive - but nowhere near what a textbook costs.
But students are not given new $130 textbooks each year. They are purchased, used and then saved for subsequent years. Additionally, textbooks have all sorts of instructional activites for ELL or computers, ideas for projects, websites for information as well as being usefull for independent. learning. The McDougal Littell "The Americans" Textbook, for example... good stuff.
Bodhisattva
I have no idea, nor did I mean to imply one way or the other on your personal stance.
I was simply responding to the dismissive comment that "Most students go to school because they have to and for no other reason."
I don't think that's remotely accurate, and I don't think it's a fair statement to make. It sounds like a blanket statement that might be made by someone who doesn't actually work with the students, so I said as much
That statement is no more untrue than saying that most adults go to work because they have to and for no other reason. If you gave them a choice, would a kid rather go to school, or hang out at the park, play video games, surf, paintball, etc etc etc? Ask your students. I have. That does not mean that they don't mind, or don't understand why they come to school, but if the question is presented properly, I have yet to meet any person, literally, in the world that would rather go to work or school than to do what they wanted to do, all things being equal, like money. And that is not a factor for kids, just adults.
I am keeping my position within the context of one or the other. Not in the context of reality, so to speak. It is obviously unrealistic to have millions of kids just doing what they want with no supervision. They also understand that, but in the context of "what if" I stand by my statement.
Just so we are on the same page, I have taught for well over ten years in multiple countries and multiple socio-economic situations. From gang infested inner-city extension school for Oakland, CA to posh private schools. I currently am teaching in New Zealand at an average school, meaning the range of kids and families cover the spectrum of all socio-economic ranges.
Sometimes, just location alters a teachers percpetion of things like textbooks simply due to the districts choice in what to buy and nothing more. The districts I worked for made good choices IMO.
Understood. We're mincing words. I try to clearly define those phrases because, oddly enough, I teach Economics including the notions of regulated and unregulated markets - and yeah, to a high school student that's learning Adam Smith for the first time it really does need to be clarified.
The phrase "relative free market" is more clear to students, and I've gotten in the habit of using it. If I taught advanced Econ at the college level, I wouldn't. I teach ninth through 12th grade, however. Most of these students can't even spell laissez-faire capitalism, much less know what the Hell it means.
Hell, I can barely spell laissez-faire capitalism...
In any case, to answer your specific question, "I use the phrase relative free market to make it clear that we're not talking about the unbridled Invisible Hand theory."
Understood. I was just trying to catch you on the use of the word and nothing else... it was a word game.
I agree that money is not the only solution. I do agree that it is one of the necessary solutions, however.
Yes, money can and does help dramatically. Agreed.
I think there has been some misunderstanding then, possibly because of the staunch reaction I had to Hoplites asinine and ill-informed remarks. I attempted to clarify that in the last couple of posts, but it seems fair that I still have work to do, so here goes:
Fair enough...
Textbooks are pretty much a total waste. This is a statement I made and I stand by it. Ideally, I'd get three textbooks each semester for all four of my classes. The teacher's edition, one student version for my classroom, and one student version to take home so I could work on it (because yes, we really do spend a lot of time working on these things outside of the classroom).
The other 147 textbooks, I do not want, do not need, but do want the resources I could have in their place with the $19,500 that they cost.
Textbooks do suck.
We disagree on that point, at least. They are not the best thing in the world, but they are far from sucking. I think that they have a lot to offer. I rarely use them, except in math.
I hope this clarifies my stance somewhat. I think you and I agree more than we disagree, Bodhisattva. I think my reaction to some of the more ignorant and hostile remarks in the thread may have caused that situation to arise. I hope this remedies that to some extent.
I think that must be it. I grasped onto what seemed like extreme ideas, but I was evidently taking them out of context since I was not seeing your conversation with the other person clearly enough. All good!