• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are guns a problem in the US?

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This graph shows exactly where the problem lies


Homocided Rates.jpg

How can we be conned that guns are now problem when they are obviously not? Is everybody a slave to what gun control claims?
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Guns aren't a problem.

People who misuse guns are a big problem.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
69,197
Reaction score
39,369
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Guns aren't a problem.

People who misuse guns are a big problem.

Which is why we should let them roam freely among us and then try to prevent (only?) them from becoming armed. ;)
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Which is why we should let them roam freely among us and then try to prevent (only?) them from becoming armed. ;)

We don't know how to do that any better than we could stop people drinking alcohol.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
259,400
Reaction score
79,372
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Guns aren't a problem.

People who misuse guns are a big problem.

true, but almost all the "solutions" proposed by the Democrat party and its allies target people who DO NOT MISUSE guns
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We know that guns don't cause crime yet we are always arguing about how to stop people getting guns? What's wrong with this picture?
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another:
reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you
have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force
me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human
interaction falls into one of those two categories, without
exception.

Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively
interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid
method of social interaction and the only thing that re-
moves force from the menu is the personal firearm, as
paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You
have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a
way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound
woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year
old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and
a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys
with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or
numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of
bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd
be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a
firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That,
of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly
disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity
when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule
by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact
opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can
only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted
him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal
that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious
in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute
lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and
come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes
lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not
the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an
octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply
wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal
and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a
fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my
side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I
don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me
to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would
interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who
would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and
that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By
Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally
armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another:
reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you
have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force
me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human
interaction falls into one of those two categories, without
exception.

Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively
interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid
method of social interaction and the only thing that re-
moves force from the menu is the personal firearm, as
paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You
have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a
way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound
woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year
old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and
a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys
with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or
numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of
bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd
be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a
firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That,
of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly
disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity
when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule
by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact
opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can
only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted
him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal
that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious
in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute
lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and
come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes
lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not
the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an
octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply
wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal
and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a
fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my
side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I
don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me
to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would
interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who
would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and
that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By
Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally
armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

Excellent post but I must correct the attribute. This was written by Marko Kloos.

March 23, 2007 by Marko Kloos
why the gun is civilization.

https://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/
 

ajn678

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
7,966
Reaction score
3,395
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No guns are not the problem. Gangs which use guns to kill each other is the main issue with gun violence in America. I used to think that we should have stricter gun laws. Then, I woke up and really looked at the numbers. The likelihood that I or anyone else that I know will end up the victim of gun violence is so low simply because we don't associate with inner city gang members, and are not involved with drug trafficking. I urge anyone that is terrified of the idea of people owning guns, to take a look at the actual statistics about where almost all of the gun violence happens in America. The War on Drugs has caused massive problems with gun violence in America. Simply put, no one cares about the main victims and perpetrators of gun violence. The young African American male.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No guns are not the problem. Gangs which use guns to kill each other is the main issue with gun violence in America. I used to think that we should have stricter gun laws. Then, I woke up and really looked at the numbers. The likelihood that I or anyone else that I know will end up the victim of gun violence is so low simply because we don't associate with inner city gang members, and are not involved with drug trafficking. I urge anyone that is terrified of the idea of people owning guns, to take a look at the actual statistics about where almost all of the gun violence happens in America. The War on Drugs has caused massive problems with gun violence in America. Simply put, no one cares about the main victims and perpetrators of gun violence. The young African American male.

That is one excellent view the other is it is completely silly to ignore the fact guns simply do not cause crime. Therefore no benefit can possibly be obtained by restriction or removing guns. To many that is a quantum leap of logic they simply cannot make because fear gets in the way. It is really a sad day for humanity went people refuse to think.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Guns aren't a problem.

People who misuse guns are a big problem.

Which is why we punish bad behaviour as it punishes the perpetrator. However when we seek to remove things from all and sundry the only word that describes it is oppression.
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,928
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
This graph shows exactly where the problem lies


View attachment 67201451

How can we be conned that guns are now problem when they are obviously not? Is everybody a slave to what gun control claims?

Criminals are a problem and the problem is getting worse. Americans need their right to keep and bear arms more than ever.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Criminals are a problem and the problem is getting worse. Americans need their right to keep and bear arms more than ever.

I think even gun control advocates would agree on that. What is clear is that at no time in history has gun control reduced crime. That is beautifully illustrated by the graph. I think the discussion should move towards making sure governments effort is directed to crime fighting and not gun control as a false proxy. It stands to reason that the billions spent on gun control so far cannot be recovered but do we need to compound the error by continuing?

Rights are the most important thing we have and we must never lose sight that it is our rights that keep us safe
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,928
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I think even gun control advocates would agree on that. What is clear is that at no time in history has gun control reduced crime. That is beautifully illustrated by the graph. I think the discussion should move towards making sure governments effort is directed to crime fighting and not gun control as a false proxy. It stands to reason that the billions spent on gun control so far cannot be recovered but do we need to compound the error by continuing?

Rights are the most important thing we have and we must never lose sight that it is our rights that keep us safe

I don't know if they. Just last week the government stopped using the word, "convict".
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I don't know if they. Just last week the government stopped using the word, "convict".

One has to be politically correct or suffer the consequence's of the protectors screeching in the media drumming up support and loss of government votes.

Now if firearm organisations understood that we would have as many rights as criminals do.:lol:
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,928
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
One has to be politically correct or suffer the consequence's of the protectors screeching in the media drumming up support and loss of government votes.

Now if firearm organisations understood that we would have as many rights as criminals do.:lol:

We should start referring to guns as, "pressurized impact devices".
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
259,400
Reaction score
79,372
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
We should start referring to guns as, "pressurized impact devices".

How about "laxatives for left-wingers" given the effect guns often have on lefties?
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
259,400
Reaction score
79,372
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I prefer "speed for right-wingers" since so many people on the right waste so much time on guns.

how is keeping America free wasting time? the real waste of time (and money) is by Democrats who pretend gun control laws are actually going to restrict criminals.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I prefer "speed for right-wingers" since so many people on the right waste so much time on guns.

I suppose claiming it is guns rather than rights allows you to ignore it?
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
how is keeping America free wastingg that time?
the real waste of time (and money) is by Democrats who pretend gun control laws are actually going to restrict criminals.



The real waste of time in the USA is all of the GOPers dreaming that they'll ever control what Democrats do.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time, GOP.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We should start referring to guns as, "pressurized impact devices".

:lol:

A better plan would be to raise our voices in objection to gun controls lies and deliberate demonisation of firearm owners. A better plan would be to realise this is a fight over public safety and reassure citizens guns (not gun owners) represent no danger to them. That criminals the government has not arrested and charged do.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
13,494
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The real waste of time in the USA is all of the GOPers dreaming that they'll ever control what Democrats do.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time, GOP.

Or vise versa. Liberals want to change the right by rewriting Websters Dictionary, and have been doing it for a very long time/
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Or vise versa. Liberals want to change the right by rewriting Websters Dictionary, and have been doing it for a very long time/



Wrong. We're going to put the GOP out of business.

Get back with us in about 40 years and we'll talk about it.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Wrong. We're going to put the GOP out of business.

Get back with us in about 40 years and we'll talk about it.

You mean after the great war?
 
Top Bottom