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Are green energy programs wasting tax payer money?

MrT

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TheGoverness

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MickeyW

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Like the vast majority of articles that include a question mark in the title, the answer is "No."

I fully disagree.

The only thing we waste billions of tax dollars on, is our bloated military.

I agree on some level......there is a lot of waste in any government entity....and that's why they need to be run like a business, instead of a cash cow with over funding.
 

mike2810

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The only thing we waste billions of tax dollars on, is our bloated military.

Let's not forget all the social (free stuff) programs). Seems they are quite bloated themselves.:mrgreen:
 

thenotorious

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Are green energy programs wasting tax payer money? | On Air Videos | Fox Business


But the message of Obama's and Greenie politicians is an utter failure, in forcing not-ready-for-prime-time green energy sources, while wasting Billions and hurting the economy & jobs, needs saying.

No. What we are wasting though is opportunities to not destroy just about everything on this planet. Sadly, those opportunities continue to dwindle as people choose cheap energy over a future.
 

longview

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I think part of the problem is that the Government places little value on the peoples money,
so when they give it out on any project, they only expect the level of care, they themselves exercise.
Solyndra is a good example, they actually had a good idea, and had that good idea been forced to compete
with the other solar panel companies, perhaps they could have made it cost competitive.
With the overwash of excessive tax payers dollars, Solyndra went first class on everything.
They found the most expensive place and built an entirely new plant, in an expansive state.
There are empty factories in almost every state, that they could have had for much lower cost.
As much as I would like the solar panel subsidy to continue (until I get panels on my roof),
the price has dropped to the point where a panel system can be justified on a savings basis alone.
The Government need to clean up the patchwork of rules regarding home solar, so the utilities
are not harmed by each new home added.
 

Threegoofs

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Are green energy programs wasting tax payer money? | On Air Videos | Fox Business


But the message of Obama's and Greenie politicians is an utter failure, in forcing not-ready-for-prime-time green energy sources, while wasting Billions and hurting the economy & jobs, needs saying.

You obviously don't get the basic concept that the reason for subsidies are precisely because these technologies are not-ready-for-prime-time and need to have demand generated to achieve economies of scale that are now making them better and cheaper.

And as Longview points out, this is happening right now, demonstrating the ultimate success of these programs.

Thanks, Obama!
 

Geoist

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You obviously don't get the basic concept that the reason for subsidies are precisely because these technologies are not-ready-for-prime-time and need to have demand generated to achieve economies of scale that are now making them better and cheaper.

And as Longview points out, this is happening right now, demonstrating the ultimate success of these programs.

Thanks, Obama!

Some people also seem to conveniently forget how much we subsidize the fossil fuel industries.

But, of course, it's all,
"GREEN ENERGY SUBSIDIES BAD!!"
"ENVIRONMENT-DESTROYING OIL SUBSIDIES GOOD!!"

What a ******* crazy society we live in. :(
 

Mr Person

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No.

If anything, we need more money into clean energy research, into NIH grants for other types of research, and NASA space exploration. The reason we lead in science for a while last century is because we invested in that stuff. It didn't just happen because "MERKA, F yeah!"



The trouble is that realizing this requires a respect for delayed gratification and a mature appreciation for long-term planning, something sorely lacking in many.
 

Lord of Planar

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Some people also seem to conveniently forget how much we subsidize the fossil fuel industries.

But, of course, it's all,
"GREEN ENERGY SUBSIDIES BAD!!"
"ENVIRONMENT-DESTROYING OIL SUBSIDIES GOOD!!"

What a ******* crazy society we live in. :(

No we don't.

Please link the facts about subsidies.

You may also want to look up the definition of "subsidy" before you proceed.
 

Geoist

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No we don't.

Please link the facts about subsidies.

You may also want to look up the definition of "subsidy" before you proceed.

Perhaps you should provide links to support your own argument. I have already provided a link for mine.
 

apdst

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You obviously don't get the basic concept that the reason for subsidies are precisely because these technologies are not-ready-for-prime-time and need to have demand generated to achieve economies of scale that are now making them better and cheaper.

And as Longview points out, this is happening right now, demonstrating the ultimate success of these programs.

Thanks, Obama!

Windmills will never be profitable.

Forbes Welcome
 

longview

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Windmills will never be profitable.

Forbes Welcome
Never is a long time, and I suspect in some geographies, current technology wind power might be profitable.
That said, without storage, wind power has a steep hill to climb.
Right now photovoltaic solar is looking better than wind.
 

apdst

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Never is a long time, and I suspect in some geographies, current technology wind power might be profitable.
That said, without storage, wind power has a steep hill to climb.
Right now photovoltaic solar is looking better than wind.

The costs are going up and the energy production is remaining the same. Never is a pretty safe bet.

The funnniest part of the wind turbine industry, is the amount of diesel fuel it takes to erect one tower.
 

longview

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The costs are going up and the energy production is remaining the same. Never is a pretty safe bet.

The funnniest part of the wind turbine industry, is the amount of diesel fuel it takes to erect one tower.
I suspect wind power may have past the point of diminishing returns, at least with respect to the high tech stuff.
 

apdst

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I suspect wind power may have past the point of diminishing returns, at least with respect to the high tech stuff.

It was never and will never be profitable.

As we speak, Denmark is trying to figure out what to do with their unusable blades.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Personally, I would rather us get energy from this:

solar-farm-to-be-developed.jpg


Than this:

mountaintop-removal-.jpg

But I guess that is just me. Maybe some people would rather us blow entire mountains up, destroy millions of acres of forest, pollute thousands of miles of rivers and streams, and literally scar the land for millions of years (How long do you think it will take for another mountain to form?).

I also all for nuclear, hydro where appropriate, natural gas, wind, geothermal.
 

apdst

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Personally, I would rather us get energy from this:

solar-farm-to-be-developed.jpg


Than this:

View attachment 67200641

But I guess that is just me. Maybe some people would rather us blow entire mountains up, destroy millions of acres of forest, pollute thousands of miles of rivers and streams, and literally scar the land for millions of years (How long do you think it will take for another mountain to form?).

I also all for nuclear, hydro where appropriate, natural gas, wind, geothermal.

Strip mines are reclaimed, so that not quote as bad as some would make them out to be.

BTW, lithium is strip mined.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Strip mines are reclaimed, so that not quote as bad as some would make them out to be.

BTW, lithium is strip mined.

Yes, lithium is strip mined. However, we use exponentially more coal in a given year than we do lithium. So the impact of coal mining is exponentially greater than from mining lithium. The worst environmental disasters in US history have all been related to coal mining. Even if you had a Chernobyl level nuclear meltdown once a decade, nuclear would still have nothing on coal in terms of environmental destruction.

Finally, yes those mines are reclaimed. What once was large mountain in the Appalachians, covered in forests, with cool clean streams and abundant wildlife, becomes a flat field after reclamation. You can literally see reclaimed mines mountaintop removal coal mines from space. Just look at West Virginia or Eastern Kentucky with Google Earth. So, its not the same. Even with reclamation we literally altering the landscape for millions of years (until the next mountains form).
 

apdst

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Yes, lithium is strip mined. However, we use exponentially more coal in a given year than we do lithium. So the impact of coal mining is exponentially greater than from mining lithium. The worst environmental disasters in US history have all been related to coal mining. Even if you had a Chernobyl level nuclear meltdown once a decade, nuclear would still have nothing on coal in terms of environmental destruction.

Finally, yes those mines are reclaimed. What once was large mountain in the Appalachians, covered in forests, with cool clean streams and abundant wildlife, becomes a flat field after reclamation. You can literally see reclaimed mines mountaintop removal coal mines from space. Just look at West Virginia or Eastern Kentucky with Google Earth. So, its not the same. Even with reclamation we literally altering the landscape for millions of years (until the next mountains form).

Strip mining is no different than clearing land for farming. Or solar farms, or wind farms.
 

polgara

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Personally, I would rather us get energy from this:

solar-farm-to-be-developed.jpg


Than this:

View attachment 67200641

But I guess that is just me. Maybe some people would rather us blow entire mountains up, destroy millions of acres of forest, pollute thousands of miles of rivers and streams, and literally scar the land for millions of years (How long do you think it will take for another mountain to form?).

I also all for nuclear, hydro where appropriate, natural gas, wind, geothermal.

Greetings, Southern Democrat. :2wave:

:agree: 100 percent with your post! Also, so many birds are killed by windmills - many of them eagles, our national bird! Can't something be done to handle that problem? It's a federal crime to take their feathers, but not to kill them with windmills? WTH is wrong with that thinking? :2mad:
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Strip mining is no different than clearing land for farming. Or solar farms, or wind farms.

How many mountains have been blown up to clear land for solar farms or wind farms?
 

apdst

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How many mountains have been blown up to clear land for solar farms or wind farms?

How many board feet of timber have been cleared for wind, solar and crops?

I went to a wind farm in Pennsylvania where 50 acres of timber were cleared to build the wind farm.

Shall we get into the pollution caused by leaking wind turbines?
 
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