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Are Covid passports a threat to liberty? It depends on how you define freedom


The people who have no problem with over 100,000 dead British and 500,000 dead Americans are the same ones who cry and moan over common-sense, life-saving measures. Such as businesses' rights to not admit narcissistic anti-vaxxers.

Here's the thing about liberty: It only works in moderation. Unlimited liberty means I can literally do whatever I want to you, and whoever "wins" is decided by brute force. Barbarism. Unlimited liberty is, in practice, no liberty at all. The best liberty is freedom within limits.

There's another aspect to this: Healthcare IS freedom. If you have that vaccine, you're going to get the freedom to more safely do things you haven't gotten to do in over a year. If you have affordable healthcare, you have the freedom to live your life not being one health event away from bankruptcy.

So we see that the actual opponents of freedom are the ones who oppose anti-coronavirus measures, not the sensible people who support them.

and 500,000 dead Americans

Just stop

2 1/2 million die in America normally every single year
 
And that’s ok with you? Our society is devolving into a sheeplike mentality where they believe it’s ok to be tracked, categorized and sorted. You’re right, personal liberty has nearly vanished. The govt knows what’s best. Big tech decides what you can and can’t read. Media decides who is credible. They decide when fake news is appropriate because it’s for the good of society.
Unlike you I don't live my life terrified that someone might take an interest in me. Go find a nice comfy bunker. By the way, as far as "fake news" is concerned your idiotic conspiracy posts are a prime example. 'Experimental gene therapy", and claiming no vaccines have ever been developed or worked. You, sir, are full of it.
 
"Experimental gene therapy"! Did you escape from some lunatic's conspiracy forum and land here by mistake? The conspiracy forum is that way >
It must be too stressful for some to acknowledge the reality playing out in the rush to get the jab. Name calling is immature and inappropriate. Projecting mental illness on strangers is most certainly a growing pathology in society. Are you not aware these jabs are experimental and you’re the test subject? And yes, there are new technologies being used in these ‘vaccines’ that are designed to alter your body’s immune response. That’s genetic manipulation. You can play with semantics all day long but it is what it is.
 
It took weaker victims like the Flu does is normal(wink)
And it is also taking young, fit and healthy people. Or have you not been keeping up with events?
"Research suggests more than half of people being treated in intensive care last month were under 40".
 
And it is also taking young, fit and healthy people. Or have you not been keeping up with events?

And it is also taking young, fit and healthy people

Yes, but proportionally a minority(wink)

It took MORE the 60 and over and weak crowed
 
And it is also taking young, fit and healthy people. Or have you not been keeping up with events?
"Research suggests more than half of people being treated in intensive care last month were under 40".


Oh snake


Older Adults
At greater risk of requiring hospitalization or dying if diagnosed with COVID-19


8 out of ten COVID deaths are 65 and older

 
Unlike you I don't live my life terrified that someone might take an interest in me. Go find a nice comfy bunker. By the way, as far as "fake news" is concerned your idiotic conspiracy posts are a prime example. 'Experimental gene therapy", and claiming no vaccines have ever been developed or worked. You, sir, are full of it.
I’m afraid you’re the one who has devised some crazy assumptions.
1. please don’t make up nonsense that I or anyone who questions govt overreach as someone who is terrified and in need of a bunker. Im just commenting on the masses who don’t mind being moved to the paddock. It is they who seem more comfortable being housed within a creepy communal system. The the latest and greatest bunker for those who need to be controlled!
2. I think some of us have had enough of MSM and it’s fake news. Filming fake overcrowding in hospitals to terrorize people into thinking COVID was taking them out was shameful but expected. It has been very effective in convincing the masses to take an experimental jab......yes each an every one is experimental. You need to do your research before projecting your strange ideas on strangers.
3. Oh and please don’t make untrue statements about what I’ve said. I never said vaccines don’t work but you did. Some work and some have been devastating such as what gates did in India with the polio vaccine.
4. I am truly sorry that you don’t understand the mRNA technology but it manipulates your genes by changing your Natural immune response. Since it is experimental, human trials will determine if it is safe or if it works. Since adequate animals studies are absent along with any long term studies , we can only hope the side effects will be minimal although there are some scientists who think many will become injured, life expectancies reduced and aids like diseases will appear. But not to worry, pharma has a pill to fix that!
 
And it is also taking young, fit and healthy people. Or have you not been keeping up with events?
"Research suggests more than half of people being treated in intensive care last month were under 40".

This new mutant strain actually will start taking out the younger folks....the vaccinated. Their bodies are primed for a full attack. I wonder if this will be revealed. On the other hand, we just don’t know what is going to happen in each and every case because it wasn’t studied. There will be people who will be able to survive it and others who won’t. This info will become part of these studies and eventually we will be able to determine if these ‘vaccinations’ prevented illness or caused it.

COVID stats were exaggerated by 40% according to some. Driving fear is the perfect way to increase the number of test subjects. No doubt COVID leaked from the lab in Wuhan, it’s a virus we’ve never seen which is why those withweakened immune systems are at most risk. I’m not sure if manipulating our genes is appropriate without long term study. I’m concerned treatments have been buried because the only way these ‘vaccines’ can continue is when there are no effective treatments. Most of us know there actually are but this info is scrubbed. Anything that surfaces is discredited or worse.
 
I’m afraid you’re the one who has devised some crazy assumptions.
1. please don’t make up nonsense that I or anyone who questions govt overreach as someone who is terrified and in need of a bunker. Im just commenting on the masses who don’t mind being moved to the paddock. It is they who seem more comfortable being housed within a creepy communal system. The the latest and greatest bunker for those who need to be controlled!
2. I think some of us have had enough of MSM and it’s fake news. Filming fake overcrowding in hospitals to terrorize people into thinking COVID was taking them out was shameful but expected. It has been very effective in convincing the masses to take an experimental jab......yes each an every one is experimental. You need to do your research before projecting your strange ideas on strangers.
3. Oh and please don’t make untrue statements about what I’ve said. I never said vaccines don’t work but you did. Some work and some have been devastating such as what gates did in India with the polio vaccine.
4. I am truly sorry that you don’t understand the mRNA technology but it manipulates your genes by changing your Natural immune response. Since it is experimental, human trials will determine if it is safe or if it works. Since adequate animals studies are absent along with any long term studies , we can only hope the side effects will be minimal although there are some scientists who think many will become injured, life expectancies reduced and aids like diseases will appear. But not to worry, pharma has a pill to fix that!
3. Yes you did; post #266. "We have never been able to vaccinate for viruses". So in addition to your dumb conspiracy nonsense you also employ lies and a conveniently failing memory. I have never stated vaccines don't work; why would I, I had mine in February. Oh, and by the way, every new medication is trialled before approval and certification. If you call that an experiment it's your problem. You really are clueless-and I suggest you stop digging that hole. There are several medics both practising and retired on this board, including me willing to educate you. I would hate to see you crash and burn, so I'd quit your conspiratorial nonsense right about now if I were you.
 
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Oh snake





8 out of ten COVID deaths are 65 and older

Oh ffs. The NEW variants are taking young people at an increasing rate. Do you not bother to read the links you're presented?
 
It took weaker victims like the Flu does is normal(wink)

They would have lived longer if they had not caught Covid 19.
Just like the victims of the Flu would have lived longer if they had not caught the Flu.

Even those who had underling health conditions.

New study finds coronavirus can cut life span by 10 years or more
A study from the University of Glasgow tested the assumption those who died from COVID-19 would have died soon regardless of contracting the infection.
  • The study found those who died from COVID-19 lost more than 10 years of their life on average.
  • Men lost about 13 years of potential life, while women lost about 11 years.
  • The estimates account for underlying health conditions.
 
I don't have an issue. I'm simply reaction to your complacent claim that you have lasting immunity.
Then you would object to vaccines which rely on that same immunity.
 
What are you babbling about now?
If my immunity is in question, then so is the immunity of anyone taking a vaccine. You do understand that they both are based on our immune systems, right?
 
Only to the people who refuse to get vaccinated think it's infringing on their rights or are just plain bull headed stupid who think they have good reasons not to be vaccinated.
 
If my immunity is in question, then so is the immunity of anyone taking a vaccine. You do understand that they both are based on our immune systems, right?
Oh dear god. Everyone's immune system is different, and everyone's immune response is different. Don't you know anything? What works for you may not work for the next person. Here's today's homework study...
"The human immune system is highly variable among individuals..."
 
Oh dear god. Everyone's immune system is different, and everyone's immune response is different. Don't you know anything? What works for you may not work for the next person. Here's today's homework study...
"The human immune system is highly variable among individuals..."
Which is true both for people who got covid, and for people that get the vaccine.......
 
No two people will react in the same way. No two immune systems work in the same way. You learned something today; no need to thank me.
WHich applies to people who got covid naturally, or people who get the vaccine. So again, what's your issue?
 
COVID–19 vaccines generate both antibody and T cell responses– but this is much stronger and more consistent than immunity from natural infection.
I think we're wasting our time. Some people are simply to arrogant and pig-headed to ever admit they could be wrong. They just love digging themselves into holes...
 
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WHich applies to people who got covid naturally, or people who get the vaccine. So again, what's your issue?
I don't have an issue. I was simply correcting your dumb assumption that everyone's immune system works in the same way. Now that is an issue.
"If my immunity is in question, then so is the immunity of anyone taking a vaccine". It isn't.
 
Actually, it is you who seem to be losing control calling my opinions stupid and feeling justified in mocking those

:LOL:

You're the one who is spreading the disinformation that mRNA vaccines change our DNA, when they never, ever do.
You're the one who is full of Dunning-Kruger and is getting pissy when their bullshit is called out.

You won't last long around here with that kind of attitude. :)
 
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