Are Covid passports a threat to liberty? It depends on how you define freedom

[noonereal]

Not everyone is a sheep

Indeed, some of us are reasoned, prudent and wise.

You should join us. Not doing so only endangers all of us and will exclude you from much of what sociaty offers.

 

[Ethel2]

Not everyone is a sheep

lol. Then you clearly don’t understand what this jab is doing to your body. Sad really.

I think I have a much better understanding of the human body than you have shown.
Your posts reveal profound ignorance.

 

[jellybean]

I think I have a much better understanding of the human body than you have shown.
Your posts reveal profound ignorance.

Not hardly. Cornell dolled up the concept of genetic engineering in this article :https://allianceforscience.cornell....vaccines-use-genetic-engineering-get-over-it/
not genetic modification,eh?
and of course DNA isn’t involved

Modified RNA has a direct effect on DNA

An article titled "m6A RNA modification as a new player in R-loop regulation," by the Dynamic Gene Regulation research group led by Arne Klungland at IMB, was published in the January edition of Nature Genetics.

phys.org

and if you want to talk about ignorant ......who is dumb enough to submit to an experimental trial that hasn’t even been adequately tested on animals? No long term tests. Nothing but the praises from some screechy voiced old man who doesn’t even follow his own ‘expert’ advice. I’m mean really, are ppl really this gullible?

 

[Evilroddy]

Sounds good in theory but is that what this is about? I don’t think so. Genetically modifying our immune response to a corona virus is untested and has the potential to be far more dangerous to our health than the actual disease.

jellybean:

Then use the non-mRNA vaccines like Oxford-AstraZeneca or J&J. Then no worries about gene-therapy messing with your cells' nucleic acids. Problem solved.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[jellybean]

Indeed, some of us are reasoned, prudent and wise.

You should join us. Not doing so only endangers all of us and will exclude you from much of what sociaty offers.

No thanks. You are endangering yourself by engaging in this genetic experiment. When you get sick some will try to blame a new strain or those who refused to be a guinea pig. It’s already starting...,the exclusion. The passports. Exclusion from schools , sports and work. It started the same way when they put the yellow stars on the Jews. Then they were excluded from society and placed in ghettos. History allows us to see how some things never change. Rather than learning from the atrocities of the past, people morph into the same kind of folks who victimized millions of Jews. They separated them because they said they thought they were diseased and would make the rest of society ill. Sound familiar? Shame on you.

 

[noonereal]

No thanks. You are endangering yourself by engaging in this genetic experiment. When you get sick some will try to blame a new strain or those who refused to be a guinea pig. It’s already starting...,the exclusion. The passports. Exclusion from schools , sports and work. It started the same way when they put the yellow stars on the Jews. Then they were excluded from society and placed in ghettos. History allows us to see how some things never change. Rather than learning from the atrocities of the past, people morph into the same kind of folks who victimized millions of Jews. They separated them because they said they thought they were diseased and would make the rest of society ill. Sound familiar? Shame on you.

This post is hysterics. I don't do hysterics.
Peace

 

[jellybean]

jellybean:

Then use the non-mRNA vaccines like Oxford-AstraZeneca or J&J. Then no worries about gene-therapy messing with your cells' nucleic acids. Problem solved.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Not interested in enrolling in an experiment that hasn’t been adequately tested. APPARENTLY AZ and JJ had be put on hold in some countries...too many deaths. I know too many who are dropping like flies with JJ. Kind of scary how many blindly cue up for the jab. Better hope you get the placebo.

 

[jellybean]

This post is hysterics. I don't do hysterics.
Peace

No doubt you would think the truth is ‘hysterics’. It is difficult for some to handle it.

 

[Ethel2]

Not hardly. Cornell dolled up the concept of genetic engineering in this article :https://allianceforscience.cornell....vaccines-use-genetic-engineering-get-over-it/
not genetic modification,eh?
and of course DNA isn’t involved

Modified RNA has a direct effect on DNA

An article titled "m6A RNA modification as a new player in R-loop regulation," by the Dynamic Gene Regulation research group led by Arne Klungland at IMB, was published in the January edition of Nature Genetics.

phys.org

and if you want to talk about ignorant ......who is dumb enough to submit to an experimental trial that hasn’t even been adequately tested on animals? No long term tests. Nothing but the praises from some screechy voiced old man who doesn’t even follow his own ‘expert’ advice. I’m mean really, are ppl really this gullible?

Its not genetic engineering because your own DNA isn’t involved at all with the process AND the mRNA is destroyed in a matter of hours.
There is no way to alter those truths. They are facts.

I won’t debate facts.

 

[noonereal]

No doubt you would think the truth is ‘hysterics’. It is difficult for some to handle it.

yeah, whatever

peace and good luck

 

[Ethel2]

Not interested in enrolling in an experiment that hasn’t been adequately tested. APPARENTLY AZ and JJ had be put on hold in some countries...too many deaths. I know too many who are dropping like flies with JJ. Kind of scary how many blindly cue up for the jab. Better hope you get the placebo.

Your incredibly ignorant of the facts. Last I read was that there have been SIX known cases of cerebral sinus thrombosis in this country and one death (yes, it’s serious when it happens) associated with the J&J vaccine out of millions of doses given.
And gosh-that vaccine isn’t even geneticly engineered.
You’re right: the mRNA vaccines are MUCH safer.
I suggest you opt for that one.

From the FDA:

“ As of April 12, more than 6.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) vaccine have been administered in the U.S. CDC and FDA are reviewing data involving six reported U.S. cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot in individuals after receiving the J&J vaccine. ”

You’re right: just dropping like flies.

 

[Ethel2]

Not hardly. Cornell dolled up the concept of genetic engineering in this article :https://allianceforscience.cornell....vaccines-use-genetic-engineering-get-over-it/
not genetic modification,eh?
and of course DNA isn’t involved

Modified RNA has a direct effect on DNA

An article titled "m6A RNA modification as a new player in R-loop regulation," by the Dynamic Gene Regulation research group led by Arne Klungland at IMB, was published in the January edition of Nature Genetics.

phys.org

and if you want to talk about ignorant ......who is dumb enough to submit to an experimental trial that hasn’t even been adequately tested on animals? No long term tests. Nothing but the praises from some screechy voiced old man who doesn’t even follow his own ‘expert’ advice. I’m mean really, are ppl really this gullible?

From your own reference:

“ mRNA stays in the cytoplasm, where the ribosomes are. It does not enter the nucleus and cannot interact with your DNA or cause any changes to the genome.”

Unfortunately YOUR DNA is safe, although many of us believe improvements could be made.
There is no time to wait years to see if there are any side effects that develop years later, not with Covid killing tens of thousands of people a day. The testing was thorough; I read the abstracts. Did you?
And:

Number of existing vaccines that have side effects delayed by months or years:


ZERO

 

[jellybean]

Your incredibly ignorant of the facts. Last I read was that there have been SIX known cases of cerebral sinus thrombosis in this country and one death (yes, it’s serious when it happens) associated with the J&J vaccine out of millions of doses given.
And gosh-that vaccine isn’t even geneticly engineered.
You’re right: the mRNA vaccines are MUCH safer.
I suggest you opt for that one.

From the FDA:

“ As of April 12, more than 6.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) vaccine have been administered in the U.S. CDC and FDA are reviewing data involving six reported U.S. cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot in individuals after receiving the J&J vaccine. ”

You’re right: just dropping like flies.

What you don’t know are the number of deaths where they don’t list the vaccine as the cause. I know of one that has a bogus excuse for the death when it was the vaccine. If I know of one, I can’t imagine how many there could be. I also know ppl who have been hospitalized from JJ.

So you trust those Who are pushing the vaccine....many are. Compensation abounds for pushing the vaccine.....as well as administering it.

 

[Ethel2]

What you don’t know are the number of deaths where they don’t list the vaccine as the cause. I know of one that has a bogus excuse for the death when it was the vaccine. If I know of one, I can’t imagine how many there could be. I also know ppl who have been hospitalized from JJ.

So you trust those Who are pushing the vaccine....many are. Compensation abounds for pushing the vaccine.....as well as administering it.

You’re right: people shouldn’t be compensated for providing a lifesaving vaccine.
Fact: there have been ZERO deaths caused by the mRNA vaccines

Fact: so far there have been six reported cases and one death associated with (and PERHAPS caused by) the J&J vaccine. With six million doses given some people will die shortly after getting the vaccine UNRELATED TO the vaccine. So far no causal relationship has been established. It is suspicious however-and rare. I believe all the cases have been in younger women and have also been associated with low platelet counts. Its as if something is chewing up the platelets.
Until its sorted out a pause is the correct response.

 

[jellybean]

From your own reference:

“ mRNA stays in the cytoplasm, where the ribosomes are. It does not enter the nucleus and cannot interact with your DNA or cause any changes to the genome.”

Unfortunately YOUR DNA is safe, although many of us believe improvements could be made.
There is no time to wait years to see if there are any side effects that develop years later, not with Covid killing tens of thousands of people a day. The testing was thorough; I read the abstracts. Did you?
And:

Number of existing vaccines that have side effects delayed by months or years:


ZERO

I submitted this based on the titles which states genetic engineering and how DNA is effected. I can’t take responsibility if this article plays with semantics and misleads the reader. I provided a perfect example of the kind of bs we have been exposed to. There is misrepresentation at every corner. Many studies are underwritten by big pharma snd their subsidiaries. If you remember all the fake studies that supported the tobacco industry.., it took decades to decipher. I intentionally posted this bs on how they speak out of both corners of the mouth. Such weasels.

 

[snakestretcher]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? The states locked down the most have had the biggest problems-look at Cali and NY. IF you could look beyond the trough you have been fed misleading info from you may realize you have been manipulated and deceived.
1.Masks are not meant to be worn 24/7. Doctors only wear them for invasive procedures that would incur splatter. They have never worn them all day long.
2. in spite of the lies fed through the media, masks actually can lower oxygen saturation levels. Anyone with a pulse oximeter can see that if they are honest with themselves.
3. fibers from masks can be aspirated snd cause chronic coughs. This is especially prevalent when reusing masks which most ppl do. They are only to be used one time. I suspect we are going to find injury from long term mask use.
4. lowered oxygen and nitric oxide lowers immunity. That’s a fact and anyone who disputes this is a liar. When you put your body in stress mode by lowering oxygen, your immunity is compromised. Stress releases cortisol which is a cause of numerous health problems.
5. avoiding viruses is not natural. Going about our business as in the past builds our immunity. Covid is a new flu created in China that was supposedly released by accident. We have NEVER been able to vaccinate for viruses. Like the flu shot, it’s only a guess each year. To claim this ‘vaccine’ is going to stop the spread is a flat out lie. It hasn’t been properly tested which would need decades of trials and research. Altering the human genome is not to be taken lightly.

This is so utterly stupid and so replete with falsehoods and misconceptions that I don't know where to begin. For a start your dumb assertion that we have never been able to vaccinate for viruses is a classic; Smallpox, one of the world's deadliest killers, has been eradicated globally because a vaccine was successfully developed. I don't have the time or inclination to correct everything else you posted.

Smallpox vaccines

www.who.int

 

[Slartibartfast]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? The states locked down the most have had the biggest problems-look at Cali and NY. IF you could look beyond the trough you have been fed misleading info from you may realize you have been manipulated and deceived.
1.Masks are not meant to be worn 24/7. Doctors only wear them for invasive procedures that would incur splatter. They have never worn them all day long.
2. in spite of the lies fed through the media, masks actually can lower oxygen saturation levels. Anyone with a pulse oximeter can see that if they are honest with themselves.
3. fibers from masks can be aspirated snd cause chronic coughs. This is especially prevalent when reusing masks which most ppl do. They are only to be used one time. I suspect we are going to find injury from long term mask use.
4. lowered oxygen and nitric oxide lowers immunity. That’s a fact and anyone who disputes this is a liar. When you put your body in stress mode by lowering oxygen, your immunity is compromised. Stress releases cortisol which is a cause of numerous health problems.
5. avoiding viruses is not natural. Going about our business as in the past builds our immunity. Covid is a new flu created in China that was supposedly released by accident. We have NEVER been able to vaccinate for viruses. Like the flu shot, it’s only a guess each year. To claim this ‘vaccine’ is going to stop the spread is a flat out lie. It hasn’t been properly tested which would need decades of trials and research. Altering the human genome is not to be taken lightly.

1. You have obviously not been to a doctor's office or hospital in the last year
2. this has been confirmed to be a hoax
3. use a high quality mask
4. see point 2
5. let me know when you get smallpox

 

[Sweden]

Are Covid passports a threat to liberty? It depends on how you define freedom | Maria Alvarez

The pandemic is once again causing governments to pit incompatible ideas of freedom against each other, says professor of philosophy Maria Alvarez

www.theguardian.com

The people who have no problem with over 100,000 dead British and 500,000 dead Americans are the same ones who cry and moan over common-sense, life-saving measures. Such as businesses' rights to not admit narcissistic anti-vaxxers.

Here's the thing about liberty: It only works in moderation. Unlimited liberty means I can literally do whatever I want to you, and whoever "wins" is decided by brute force. Barbarism. Unlimited liberty is, in practice, no liberty at all. The best liberty is freedom within limits.

There's another aspect to this: Healthcare IS freedom. If you have that vaccine, you're going to get the freedom to more safely do things you haven't gotten to do in over a year. If you have affordable healthcare, you have the freedom to live your life not being one health event away from bankruptcy.

So we see that the actual opponents of freedom are the ones who oppose anti-coronavirus measures, not the sensible people who support them.

You are right. It doesn't happen often so I'll celebrate with another cup of tea.

 

[snakestretcher]

So then what precisely is your issue?

I don't have an issue. I'm simply reaction to your complacent claim that you have lasting immunity.

 

[snakestretcher]

My point being it appears the risk of the J&J vaccine is greater for the person than that of having Covid-19.

It isn't.

 

[snakestretcher]

As long as I can fly some airline, buy my groceries at some nearby store, buy my pet supplies at some pet supply store in the city, etc. without showing my papers--without any pressure from the government on such stores for accommodating me--I can tolerate vaccine passports.

I consider them a hideous violation of personal liberty, and a proverbial door to social Hell, but I believe businesses ought to be able to turn unwanted customers away for any reason, including vaccination status.

Why is a vaccine passport such an imposition? Every time your cell phone is switched on its GPS position is logged; anytime you use a credit card or ATM machine someone, somewhere knows where you have been. CCTV is everywhere, your driving license-all are means of identifying you. Are they all violating your personal 'liberty'-as if you actually have any?

 

[jellybean]

1. You have obviously not been to a doctor's office or hospital in the last year
2. this has been confirmed to be a hoax
3. use a high quality mask
4. see point 2
5. let me know when you get smallpox

Please don’t make incorrect assumptions. I have been to dr offices and hospitals. Over the past year folks are wearing masks round the clock. That is not the intended use for this product. I’m certainly aware of the levels of masks. The expensive N95 is the mask that is reworn the most due to the cost. I doubt anyone wears it once which is the way it is supposed to be used. In fact, it’s a great way to actually spread disease when you rewear disposables Other medical grade masks have the same limitations. Use once. The reality is that is not affordable for most. As soon as the mask is removed, it is to be thrown away.

scarves and bandanas are a joie...they maybe appropriate if you get caught in a dust storm.

please explain what specifically is a hoax? I haven’t seen any scientific studies not funded by pharma.if you do, please share.
Not sure what small pox has to do with this. This is a situation where many have been coerced, tricked or unaware they enrolled in a clinical trial when they took the jab. Maybe you knew but others didn’t. I think it’s odd people didn’t sign an informed consent form. Then again, there is no liability whatsoever from pharma and the administrators.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Please don’t make incorrect assumptions. I have been to dr offices and hospitals. Over the past year folks are wearing masks round the clock. That is not the intended use for this product. I’m certainly aware of the levels of masks. The expensive N95 is the mask that is reworn the most due to the cost. I doubt anyone wears it once which is the way it is supposed to be used. In fact, it’s a great way to actually spread disease when you rewear disposables Other medical grade masks have the same limitations. Use once. The reality is that is not affordable for most. As soon as the mask is removed, it is to be thrown away.

scarves and bandanas are a joie...they maybe appropriate if you get caught in a dust storm.

unfortunately the pandemic caught a lot of people and industries at a disadvantage, so we do what we can with what we got. while not perfect, its better than doing nothing.

please explain what specifically is a hoax? I haven’t seen any scientific studies not funded by pharma.if you do, please share.
Not sure what small pox has to do with this. This is a situation where many have been coerced, tricked or unaware they enrolled in a clinical trial when they took the jab. Maybe you knew but others didn’t. I think it’s odd people didn’t sign an informed consent form. Then again, there is no liability whatsoever from pharma and the administrators.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

the small pox thing was a reply to the whole man vs nature schtick, we can and have eradicated diseases and we can do it again if we get our collective shit together.

 

[snakestretcher]

I’m not going to give you a science lesson because it appears you’re only capable of digesting the pablum fed to you via the media.
FYI: this is gene therapy, my friend. It changes the way your body expresses its immune response. You can’t turn it off once it’s inserted into your body which is why long term studies should have occurred before these human trials began.

My dear uninformed Ethel- this is NOT a vaccine. It is experimental gene therapy. You should have received informed consent before taking the jab because this should not be a surprise to you. There are vaccines that were effective snd others that killed many until they were pulled off the market. Like the polio vaccine that killed and maimed all those innocent children in India - thanks bill gates but your foundation will never cover up your monstrous deeds.

you can deny the reality about masks but they are not supposed to be used 24/7. Children are especially vulnerable. The fibers in used masks are causing coughs and I expect to see some litigation. Some masks have warnings.

a simple pulse oximeter can reveal the truth because they lower oxygen saturation levels if you have the capacity to test correctly. Nitric oxide is also compromised which lowers your immune system.

how can you say with a straight face there is no impact whenyou place a potential biohazard on your face and breathe it in? Some of the masks have plastic. Many are from China and since they DONT maintain rigid manuf protocols, you should avoid items like this when possible. I would never use any kinds of dishware , food utensils, baby item etc from China for that reason. I hardly think a mask from China that covers my respiratory input is prudent.
So laugh as much as you need to- that’s good for the body. Your misguided info however will not be very useful to you.

"Experimental gene therapy"! Did you escape from some lunatic's conspiracy forum and land here by mistake? The conspiracy forum is that way >

 

[jellybean]

Why is a vaccine passport such an imposition? Every time your cell phone is switched on its GPS position is logged; anytime you use a credit card or ATM machine someone, somewhere knows where you have been. CCTV is everywhere, your driving license-all are means of identifying you. Are they all violating your personal 'liberty'-as if you actually have any?

And that’s ok with you? Our society is devolving into a sheeplike mentality where they believe it’s ok to be tracked, categorized and sorted. You’re right, personal liberty has nearly vanished. The govt knows what’s best. Big tech decides what you can and can’t read. Media decides who is credible. They decide when fake news is appropriate because it’s for the good of society.