• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are Cigarette Taxes Out Of Control?

sKiTzo said:
Americans are paying a 400% mark-up in taxes for cigarettes these days. I understand the concept of luxury taxes, but at what point does luxury tax become unfair tax gouging?
Click to expand...
Should be much higher. Costs to treat people who smoke are passed onto those who don't.
 
Chomsky said:
Too a point, and dependent upon degree, I'll agree. Smokers should not expose us to their second-had smoke. We have a right to be smoke free.



Now the bolded is a problem, IMO. I'm loathe to regulate what someone does in their private abode, but I do very much want to protect kids from second-hand smoke. And I'm not sure how to deal with this in one's private abode. I suppose it might fall under child-endangerment, but that opens up a real snake pit of problems.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Difficult to handle this one properly. Need to do what’s best for the kids, who are innocent victims, but at the same time, “mah liberties.” 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
It's all in how you choose to measure it.

What is the goal of the sin tax? Is it accomplishing that?

The CDC claims that smoking declined in the U.S. "from 20.9% (nearly 21 of every 100 adults) in 2005 to 12.5% (nearly 13 of every 100 adults) in 2020."

If the goal is to reduce smokers and smoking, then things appear to be at least moving in the right direction, and quickly! Usage cut nearly in half in 15 years is pretty solid results.

We can argue about how much the taxes have to do with that, but it seems clear they're a factor.

I was a pack/day smoker for 16 years, and I just wish they had priced them out of reach when I was a kid.
 
mrjurrs said:
Should be much higher. Costs to treat people who smoke are passed onto those who don't.
Click to expand...
I'm of a similar opinion. Diseases and problems associated with smoking cost society billions which I do not think are fully captured by tobacco taxes.
 
digsbe said:
I'm of a similar opinion. Diseases and problems associated with smoking cost society billions which I do not think are fully captured by tobacco taxes.
Click to expand...
I wonder why the DoJ hasn't brought suit to capture more of their profits (which are only there because we allow tobacco companies to offload expenses associated with their product onto the public).
 
Threegoofs said:
(Citation needed)
Click to expand...
Just look at all of the obese people, especially young people with diabetes. It is a well known fact that sugary drinks especially are behind this. So much so, that companies like Coca Cola have made marketing decisions to attempt to push more zero sugar drinks, as government regulations are threatening to treat sugary beverages like tobacco. It won't be long in some jurisdictions that soda pop comes with a warning label. Mexico is attempting to curb sugar consumption there, as that nation is one of the fattest there is.

Do you remember NYC mayor Bloomberg talking about this problem?
 
Eriech said:
It is a way to tax the untaxed; lottery too. Those who can't afford milk and eggs for their families will find enough for butts and scratchies.
Click to expand...

What exactly does this mean? Have the balls to say it.

Thanks
 
Super Chief said:
Just look at all of the obese people, especially young people with diabetes. It is a well known fact that sugary drinks especially are behind this. So much so, that companies like Coca Cola have made marketing decisions to attempt to push more zero sugar drinks, as government regulations are threatening to treat sugary beverages like tobacco. It won't be long in some jurisdictions that soda pop comes with a warning label. Mexico is attempting to curb sugar consumption there, as that nation is one of the fattest there is.

Do you remember NYC mayor Bloomberg talking about this problem?
Click to expand...
When I say ‘citation needed’, I don’t mean your imagination.

Does Coca Cola cause increased mortality directly? Will eliminating it reduce mortality? (Short answer… it will not)
 
Manc Skipper said:
You are free to decide whether to pay the cost or not.
Click to expand...

Jason Warfield said:
They are able to make that decision...the tax, like the adverse effects of smoking are simply consequences of that decision.
Click to expand...
That additional 'cost' is market manipulation by the government to control people's choices and behaviors.

That's the wrong framing here. The US government is there to serve the people of the US.
It is not there to manipulate those people, to manipulate their decisions, nor to manipulate their legal behaviors.

Next, I'm sure that you'll want the US government to mandate eating of insects and heavily taxing meats and, meat products, just because these political elite globalists have a need to dictate to people their choices and behaviors (the same with pointless and unrelated sin taxes).

Jul 12, 2021Insects contribute to the biological foundation of our terrestrial ecosystem. They bring organic matter to the earth by decomposing waste, act as pollinators for the reproduction and dispersal of plants and flowers, and are also a source of food for a multitude of animal species, from birds to amphibians to humans.​
​

Feb 9, 2022Edible insects can produce equivalent amounts of quality protein when compared to animals. A recent study showed that insects offer between 9.96 and 35.2 grams of protein per 100 grams, compared with between 16.8 and 20.6 grams for meat. Of course, not all insect protein is created equal.​
​

TodayEarlier this month, the European Commission authorized the larval form of Alphitobius diaperionus (lesser mealworm) for human consumption. The Commission also gave the green light to have partially defatted powder of Acheta domesticus (house cricket) sold on the market as so-called "novel food."​
​

TodayThe EU's approval of two insect species as human food came at a time of elevated food prices. According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), the FAO Dairy Price Index averaged 142.5 points in 2022, marking a 19.6% increase from 2021 and the highest annual average on record since 1990.​

The bunch of you can go **** off and go **** yourselves.

I'm going to eat my burgers, eat my steaks, smoke my smokes, and drink my alcohol. Go **** yourselves!
 
eohrnberger said:
That additional 'cost' is market manipulation by the government to control people's choices and behaviors.

That's the wrong framing here. The US government is there to serve the people of the US.
It is not there to manipulate those people, to manipulate their decisions, nor to manipulate their legal behaviors.

Next, I'm sure that you'll want the US government to mandate eating of insects and heavily taxing meats and, meat products, just because these political elite globalists have a need to dictate to people their choices and behaviors (the same with pointless and unrelated sin taxes).

Jul 12, 2021Insects contribute to the biological foundation of our terrestrial ecosystem. They bring organic matter to the earth by decomposing waste, act as pollinators for the reproduction and dispersal of plants and flowers, and are also a source of food for a multitude of animal species, from birds to amphibians to humans.​
​

Feb 9, 2022Edible insects can produce equivalent amounts of quality protein when compared to animals. A recent study showed that insects offer between 9.96 and 35.2 grams of protein per 100 grams, compared with between 16.8 and 20.6 grams for meat. Of course, not all insect protein is created equal.​
​

TodayEarlier this month, the European Commission authorized the larval form of Alphitobius diaperionus (lesser mealworm) for human consumption. The Commission also gave the green light to have partially defatted powder of Acheta domesticus (house cricket) sold on the market as so-called "novel food."​
​

TodayThe EU's approval of two insect species as human food came at a time of elevated food prices. According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), the FAO Dairy Price Index averaged 142.5 points in 2022, marking a 19.6% increase from 2021 and the highest annual average on record since 1990.​

The bunch of you can go **** off and go **** yourselves.

I'm going to eat my burgers, eat my steaks, smoke my smokes, and drink my alcohol. Go **** yourselves!
Click to expand...


You already have permitted levels of insect parts in your food in the USA . Peanut butter, for example. Most US foods can't meet minimum EU quality standards.

edition.cnn.com

Bugs, rodent hair and poop: How much is legally allowed in the food you eat every day? | CNN

Brace yourselves, America: Many of your favorite foods may contain bits and pieces of creatures that you probably didn't know were there.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
 
Manc Skipper said:
You already have permitted levels of insect parts in your food in the USA . Peanut butter, for example.
Click to expand...
Is there a difference between an acceptable level of contamination and the majority of what a human diet is being push to become?

Manc Skipper said:
Most US foods can't meet minimum EU quality standards.

edition.cnn.com

Bugs, rodent hair and poop: How much is legally allowed in the food you eat every day? | CNN

Brace yourselves, America: Many of your favorite foods may contain bits and pieces of creatures that you probably didn't know were there.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
Click to expand...
And yet the same is endorsing meals to be largely insects.

Seems you are a bit confused.
 
sKiTzo said:
Americans are paying a 400% mark-up in taxes for cigarettes these days. I understand the concept of luxury taxes, but at what point does luxury tax become unfair tax gouging?
Click to expand...
How much does the average smoker end up costing Medicare? How much does lung cancer cost Medicare and Medicaid? Easily several hundred thousand dollars per case. What about emphysema? Likely tens of thousands of dollars per case per year. So yes, taxes on cigarettes are very high, but smokers also place a huge financial burden on taxpayers.
 
ALiberalModerate said:
How much does the average smoker end up costing Medicare? How much does lung cancer cost Medicare and Medicaid? Easily several hundred thousand dollars per case. What about emphysema? Likely tens of thousands of dollars per case per year. So yes, taxes on cigarettes are very high, but smokers also place a huge financial burden on taxpayers.
Click to expand...
My favorite pharmacoeconomic study of all time looked at this in the early 90s.

It looked at the economic impact of smoking on Medicare and SS. It basically found that the overall effects of smoking saved money, because back then, lung cancer was cheap to treat because there wasn’t much you could do, so the cost was offset by massive savings in not paying SS.

It was ideal- people worked their entire lives, and dropped dead from an incurable disease early. Non smokers cost more in SS years, and then cost Medicare lots because they would tend to get expensive, chronic disease.

This isn’t true now, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom