Are both Russia and the US responsible for the bad relationship between them?

Peter King · Jul 17, 2018

Because Trump said:

“I hold both countries responsible,”

“I think the United States has been foolish,”

“I think we’ve all been foolish. I think we’re all to blame.”

Do you agree with Trump's assertion that the fake witch hunt has damaged the relationship and thus the US is also to blame for the bad relationship?

Personally I disagree massively, the US did not secretly and deceitfully interfere in Russia's election, the US did not invade and occupy Crimea, supported the civil war in Ukraine and did not shoot down MH17. All the US did was respond to the horrendous things of that evil dictator in Moscow, they imposed sanctions and investigated the illegal actions of Russian citizens/Russian military and Russian government operatives into swaying the election towards Trump. This was done by theft and deception and had to be investigated.

What do you all think who is to blame for the bad relationship? Russia? The United States? Or both?

Abbazorkzog · Jul 17, 2018

I think what we need to do most in times like these is ask difficult questions. We need a robust debate in reporting on Russia, both inside the media and out. What we do not need is a claustrophobic consensus, or an echo chamber, from either side. Not "Russia is totally to blame" or "the US is totally to blame," but to acknowledge the roles both countries have played in destabilizing the global order. We have had leaders like Trump before, regardless of the narrative the corporate media is pushing.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

It would also help to not draw the line at Crimea as the absolute, we also saw Russian aggression in Georgia in 2008, and that is just one example of either power.

Felis Leo · Jul 17, 2018

If the question is simply "Are both countries to blame for the poor relationship that exists between them?" the answer is yes. Russia, for its rapacious and cynical tyranny and desire to keep hold of its disintegrating sphere of influence on the one hand, and the United States, for its present power and desire to continuously expand its sphere of influence in Europe, the Middle East, and East Asia; areas that Russia borders and is in turned surrounded by.

But unlike what so many prior presidential administrations (including the current one) contend, our conflict and poor relationship does not come from some grand misunderstanding. It comes from the fact that we have two diametrically opposed goals. Russia seeks to maintain its sphere of influence and reclaim some measure of its lost glory and prestige in the world through a process of militaristic protectionism. The United States and the European Union wishes to keep its boot heel upon Russia's neck and carve off one satellite state after another in order that we may enriched through the bonds of global trade networks as we did after the collapse of the Soviet Union. There is no way we could possibly have good relations unless one country allows itself to become weak and powerless in world affairs.

Rogue Valley · Jul 17, 2018

Should have just made the poll a simple yes or no.

Giving too many options clouds the essential results.

HERA the Stars · Jul 17, 2018

It's a clueless statement for a US president, one a parent would ask trying to referee two children... as if we can now both stand in a corner and never do it again. America left itself wide open during its "one-world let's all be friends and never meddle again" Obama period... it was nice but cost the US much and Putin took advantage.

Putin loves the games, he thrives on destabilising the US and Europe, as long as he is in control of Russia it will never stop, it's part of his personality. Accept it, prepare for it and undermine him back...we're all on the same page now....except of course for Trump, he's... god knows where he is...lost

I squarly blame Russia

Nap · Jul 17, 2018

With the exception of the bolded I pretty much agree and place much of the blame on Russia. However, the idea that the US is blameless and does not intervene in elections around the world is a little naive.

Peter King · Jul 17, 2018

But this is not a yes or no issue IMHO so the poll shows that IMHO.

Rogue Valley · Jul 18, 2018

It's a simple issue for me. Putin made Russia's geopolitical bed. Not anyone else.

AlbqOwl · Jul 18, 2018

Russia has a long history of war after war fighting off conquest from other countries, the most recent Hitler's campaign in WWII. Like all countries, they have a proud and rich history that includes some of the worst of the worst and some of the world's best. Yes Russia's Marxist leanings truly made it into an evil empire but one that could not be sustained. And now Russia has only Marxists to inform and counsel them, are a shell of their former world power status, and feel very vulnerable to other countries who would presume to challenge them economically, physically, militarily even as they continue to produce some of the world's greatest musicians, athletes, and scientists.

Anybody who presumes to negotiate with Russia has to realize that they are negotiating with Marxists and a great deal of national paranoia that drives them to team up with some pretty bad bedfellows. I am not sure the USA has been sensitive to that. I think President Trump likely understands that pretty well.

Conversely, the USA's willingness to stand in Russia's way was the single most important component that prevented The Soviet Union from becoming something far worse than even Hitler's Germany.

I'm not sure that answers the question presented in the OP because I don't know that there is 'blame' to be assigned to those now in charge who inherited the legacy of everything done right and everything done wrong for generations now.

polgara · Jul 18, 2018

Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

Great post! You were factual, but fair! :thumbs:

Litwin · Jul 19, 2018

“I hold both countries responsible,” Trump is mental of a KGB spy...

MrWonka · Jul 19, 2018

While America has been less than perfect in the past Russia and America were on a fairly good path towards reconciliation during the 90's and early 00's. Putin seems fixated on trying to rehash the cold war and wanting to win it this time though so at this point I'd have to put it 100% on them.

Mycroft · Jul 19, 2018

I'll take the choice you didn't provide: Blame is counterproductive. Grousing about who's responsible just gets in the way of attempts to move forward. (And all this imaginary "Trump/Russia" nonsense just makes matters worse.)

Linc · Jul 19, 2018

This is just more Steve Bannon type false-equivalence from euro appeasers of putin.

Zyphlin · Jul 19, 2018

I think in most relationships there is fault on both sides to varying degrees in terms of where it stands. While I disagree with the assertion of the United States necessarily being foolish (and have a BIG issue with a POTUS saying such on foreign soil even if he DOES think that way) in terms of some of the ways we have likely antagonized and harmed the relationship, I don't disagree with the notion that the United States has taken likely taken actions that did have that result. I think issues surrounding the 2011 election of Putin damaged relations with that country far more than the current investigation into Russian meddling has. At best, the SOS calling into question the legitimacy of the election was diplomatically aggressive; at worst, and not unlikely (I would actually HOPE not unlikely), american operatives on the ground likely were aiding the unrest in some fashion. However, given the threat Putin poses, I don't think such actions in 2011, assuming they were undertaken to some degree by the US (which I believe is the case), would be something I'd considered "foolish". Rather, they would be something I'd view as a calculated risk with potential diplomatic ramifications.

slick · Jul 19, 2018

The correct answer is 'Only just, the US overreacted to the Crimea stuff but the meddling/investigation are Russia's fault'

'In the last legitimate Ukie election the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

A breakdown of results showed that Ukraine was deeply divided, with the Russian-speaking east and south
overwhelmingly backing Yanukovych, and the Ukrainian-speaking west and centre, including Kiev, voting for Tymoshenko.

Crimea and neighboring Sevastopol -- the two newly annexed portions of Russia -- were certainly bastions of support
for Yanukovych in the 2010 election. But while they came close to providing his entire national margin of victory, they
fell a bit short, providing 90 percent of Yanukovych’s winning margin.

Victoria Nuland who BO had in charge of state in Europe was hoping for a Kiev Maiden for years
spending huge amounts of US dollars to provoke it. Nuland was a lunatic - a neocon lunatic.
She still hasn't recovered after Putin slapped her on the face with Crimea changing
hands quicker that one can say peninsula.If her tongue were any more forked it could
be laid on the table next to a knife and spoon.'

slick · Jul 19, 2018

As I recall almost immediately after ultra right wing Ukranian Nationalist overthrew Yanukovich the entire
Ukraine navy had “defected” in the Crimea region, pledging allegiance to its unrecognised pro-Russian
leader and surrendering the country's Sevastopol headquarters. What then was Russia supposed to do?
They certainly weren't going to allow what happened in Odessa to happen again in Crimea.

thenotorious · Jul 19, 2018

You could argue the US could've done a better job at establishing diplomacy, and perhaps even being proactive to a potential Russian threat by taking more initiative to influence the country instead of isolating them.

At the end of the day though, America isn't required, and certainly shouldn't have to do those things. America didn't force Russia to invade Crimea, or any of the other terrible things they've done under Putin. The country is a fault of their own, and always has been. They don't, nor really ever have known how to play nice.

Are both Russia and the US responsible for the bad relationship between them?