• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are American Voters Actually Just Stupid?

ChezC3

Relentless Thinking Fury
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
4,458
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
According to vote tallies from The Associated Press, Clinton amassed 65,844,610 votes

So, we know at least that many are...
 

Renae

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
50,241
Reaction score
19,243
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
That is the sentiment of almost everyone I talk to who now supports Trump.






That left us Ted Cruz and Trump in the final stage of the GOP Primary, and it was here that Cruz lost his shot, probably forever. He's a smart guy, a passionate conservative, a relentless warrior. The base approved of that. What we DID NOT like, was his attempt to play the evangelical card so hard, he came off like a more conservative but just as smarmy Mike Huckabee. No likes Huckabee outside the 700 club audience. And that severe miscalculation by Ted Cruz lost him the nomination.

Yup!

And even though Cruz went a down the smarmy path, I wrote him in as a protest vote against Trump. Not because I was for Hillary, I just couldn't VOTE Trump.
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,587
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
.

How true.

Sorry I can't read you post. There are quote tags for a reason.
Thanks for agreeing though, but what responses I could read were the typical liberal
Hyperbole that I am used to. A lot of emotion little depth.

You should try to work on that.

You should also try to read better sources than the typical liberal blogs.
If so you would have known that it would have taken more than just a few thousand votes.

That is about all I could read. If you are trying to make a point you should make it clearer.
Otherwise it shows how weak your points are.
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,587
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Does is not bother anyone that if they believe this describes all of Trump voters, and he ended up winning, what this says about a large portion of the American population? That there are so many people who resent "illegal" (some always forget that little caveat) immigrants, watched their jobs and communities wither, that their hope resides in a candidate like Trump in the first place. That years under the status quo has resulted in such people in the first place is what this entire election seems to be shining a spotlight on. Yet, it will be ignored once again. Because instead of seeing the symptoms, the attack is against the results only.

He problem is the pandering. We are a nation of laws except if you are a special interest group.
If you are a special interest group that can be pandered to then you get special exceptions.

The same rules that apply to other people do not apply to you.
The only reason they want to give them amnesty is that is another 11m votes.

It is putting more people on social services which means more people dependent on the government.
When people are dependent on you gen you can get them to vote the way you want.
 

Thoreau72

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
29,638
Reaction score
7,639
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Yes, but in their defense, American voters have been brainwashed, dumbed-down and manipulated for decades. As William Casey observed, when everything the American people believe is false, our misinformation efforts will be judged successful. As US presidents play golf, trim brush, hold government meetings in secret and commit military aggression all over the world, the voters shop and watch TV, the very source of the misinformation efforts.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
According to vote tallies from The Associated Press, Clinton amassed 65,844,610 votes

So, we know at least that many are...

But I thought those numbers were a lie? Part of the conspiracy to discredit Trump. Now you quote them as Gospel?

At least you now admit that 65 million Americans didn't vote for Trump.
 

yankintx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
25,631
Reaction score
14,063
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This is EXACTLY the attitude we voted against when we pulled the lever for Trump. See what it got you?

Ya we got a Pres who conned Vets out of there GI Bill education benefits thru Trump U. Whats even more deplorable, his supporters who give him a pass on such actions. Its almost cult like.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,844
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)

Most Republicans DIDN'T vote for him, and voted for those other candidates.

Enough did, in the right places, for him to win the nomination, but like in the general election, most voted for someone else.
 

gdgyva

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
12,259
Reaction score
6,382
Location
Near Atlanta Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
and that's what will haunt GOP voters. The GOP in 2015 and 2016 had the largest field of candidates I believe in history...and some Reality T.V. star ended up getting the nomination, and that is despite the GOP establishment doing everything in their power to prevent Trump from winning the nomination.

So GOP voters can keep claiming that Trump won because he wasn't Hillary...but none of that explains the primaries. It isn't the Democrats fault that GOP voters decided Trump was the best they had this election cycle.

sure it does

the dems sent out two candidates, but one had already been crowned before the event even started....i wont count the green party, or the also rans

the pubs sent out 18? candidates....another bush, a couple of conservative nobodies, christie, and a couple of puppies were werent ready for the big stage....and the Donald

everything the establishment threw at him, he took, and threw it back harder

there really wasnt a serious challenger....the country was NEVER going to elect another Bush, even though that is what the elites and power base wanted

Ryan wasnt ready...his leadership as speaker should tell you that....who else was halfway serious?

so no one emerged OTHER than Trump....and he began to rally serious support

I never voted for him.....but if you look back at my posts 7-8 months before the election, i said to watch out for him

Charisma and personality count....and whether or not you and i like him, he can and does sway people

And he got them to vote for him...in the primaries, and then in the general
 

Moderate Right

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
53,813
Reaction score
10,864
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I've asked this before. Why did they vote for him in the primary? That is the better question

That is a good question. The answer is that voters around the world, and in the US, wanted an anti-establishment nationalist, populist, president who wasn't Democrat or Republican. The Republican voters got to vote first in the primaries. Hillary failed to understand what was going on in the country and around the world because she was too busy laughing hysterically at Trump being the nominee, after which she proceeded to tell voters in the general that they have a choice between the establishment and Donald Trump.
 

DDD

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
12,351
Reaction score
1,918
Location
Republic of Dardania
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The far right are the stupidest people this country has ever seen and their unwavering support of Donald Trump through all of the slap-dash unprofessional mismanagement of the administration just reinforces that conclusion. I think that moderate voters who thought Trump might make a difference would think twice, but the Trump base, egged on by the likes of Sean Hannity would vote for Trump a hundred times just out of spite and ignorance.

Just out of spite to what?
 

Moderate Right

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
53,813
Reaction score
10,864
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Ya we got a Pres who conned Vets out of there GI Bill education benefits thru Trump U. Whats even more deplorable, his supporters who give him a pass on such actions. Its almost cult like.

So what? Hillary supporters gave her a pass on a whole lot of stuff.
 

jet57

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
31,057
Reaction score
3,969
Location
not here
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Just out of spite to what?

Out of spite for Democrats or other candidates from other parties. That's where conservatives are making their big mistake. Instead of rebuilding the party toward credibility and reason after the GW Bush debacle, they hand the country Donald Trump!?! The Dems as afar as I'm concerned are going to have to do the same rebuilding, and thus far it doesn't look to me like they're getting the message, but the right is just doubling down on ridiculous and "replace Obama Care!!" - with what? That's just populace nonsense.

The right is following behind the radical far right and that is where people like Colin Powell and John Mccain take a powder. As long as the far right leads the pack, then the Republicans are still gonna be behind the eight ball; sure, they won the presidency and now control both houses, but to what end? Just another empty alley where people get screwed.
 

Nickyjo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
28,036
Reaction score
10,318
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Out of spite for Democrats or other candidates from other parties. That's where conservatives are making their big mistake. Instead of rebuilding the party toward credibility and reason after the GW Bush debacle, they hand the country Donald Trump!?! The Dems as afar as I'm concerned are going to have to do the same rebuilding, and thus far it doesn't look to me like they're getting the message, but the right is just doubling down on ridiculous and "replace Obama Care!!" - with what? That's just populace nonsense.

I agree mostly. The GOP can win elections, but governing is more difficult. Most American people support what the conservative wing of the party wants to do away with. Headline here in Calif today are plans to start off shore drilling. A backwards-looking non-starter that will be tied up in courts. Interestingly, the plan includes re-examination of new safety rules for oil drilling platforms. Guess how long that will last if/when it sees the light of day. Govt involvement in health care is now part of what we expect, and even the GOP added "replace" to their repeal efforts. You can go down the list. A consensus has developed around the direction the government has taken since the 1930s that will be tough to break. Reform, for sure, but not eliminate.

True, old habits die hard. "Voodoo economics" keeps rising from the grave more times than Christopher Lee. Reagan, W's fighting a war while cutting taxes (read somewhere this was the first time in the history of the world that happened) Trump's budget and tax plans, the Kansas fiasco, show that while the democrats tax and spend, the GOP doesn't mind spending but hates taxes. Subtle lack of logic. But then along comes common sense in the form of Reagan deciding he should really pay for things, Bush 1 forgetting his command to read his lips, Clinton and Obama reducing deficits, etc.
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
52,328
Reaction score
36,840
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Trump is a racist but African-Americans are a homogeneous voting bloc. It's stuff like this that endears me to Alternet and associated moonbat sites.


I'll try this one more time because many on the left STILL don't understand...half or more of Trump's votes were actually votes against Hillary. Hillary Clinton, more even than Jeb Bush, was the epitome of the political class. Half of her own party didn't want her and only voted for her because she wasn't Trump. So, when you ask "If Trump and Clinton were the candidates would you still vote for Trump?" the ONLY answer most anyone to the ideological right of Mao would give you is "Yes".

If Trump was running against Sanders you might get a few more "I just wouldn't vote" responses because even as wacky as Sanders ideas were he was at least human (and besides, he'd never get anything through). Basically, there would be less harm in a Sanders presidency than in a Clinton one.

My hope, assuming we survive the next few years, is that Americans realize that we've created a ****ing monster in DC and that we need to cage it before it kills us. We should NEVER be in a position where a Trump v Clinton election would be this problematic because the federal government should never have so much power that it becomes a problem.

Hillary Clinton didn't even run in 2012, and yet Mitt Romney got a higher percentage of the popular vote than Donald did in 2016.
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
52,328
Reaction score
36,840
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
It's highly unlikely that Sanders would have been able to get much of what he talked about through. It all cost too much and neither side of the aisle would have been inclined to raise taxes enough to get it done.

President Bernie Sanders would have gotten almost nothing done. Republican Congresscritters had obstruction down to a science, and they would have blocked nearly everything he tried to get done. That, in turn, would have demoralized his base, who wants ALL THE THINGS and wants them RIGHT NAO. Thus the Democrats would have been crushed at the polls in 2018 and 2020 in ways that would have made 2016 look like a walk in the park. Remember, the Dems did make slight gains in both the Houses and Senate in 2016, but these got overlooked because the GOP still controls both.
 

eohrnberger

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
55,923
Reaction score
38,736
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
So what? Hillary supporters gave her a pass on a whole lot of stuff.

Oh hell more than that. The media gave her a pass on a lot of stuff as well, just by not bothering to cover it, and rather piling on condemning Trump and his chances.
Well, their bias and the blindness it caused in them is clear for all to see now.
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,587
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Out of spite for Democrats or other candidates from other parties. That's where conservatives are making their big mistake. Instead of rebuilding the party toward credibility and reason after the GW Bush debacle, they hand the country Donald Trump!?! The Dems as afar as I'm concerned are going to have to do the same rebuilding, and thus far it doesn't look to me like they're getting the message, but the right is just doubling down on ridiculous and "replace Obama Care!!" - with what? That's just populace nonsense.

I agree mostly. The GOP can win elections, but governing is more difficult. Most American people support what the conservative wing of the party wants to do away with. Headline here in Calif today are plans to start off shore drilling. A backwards-looking non-starter that will be tied up in courts. Interestingly, the plan includes re-examination of new safety rules for oil drilling platforms. Guess how long that will last if/when it sees the light of day. Govt involvement in health care is now part of what we expect, and even the GOP added "replace" to their repeal efforts. You can go down the list. A consensus has developed around the direction the government has taken since the 1930s that will be tough to break. Reform, for sure, but not eliminate.

True, old habits die hard. "Voodoo economics" keeps rising from the grave more times than Christopher Lee. Reagan, W's fighting a war while cutting taxes (read somewhere this was the first time in the history of the world that happened) Trump's budget and tax plans, the Kansas fiasco, show that while the democrats tax and spend, the GOP doesn't mind spending but hates taxes. Subtle lack of logic. But then along comes common sense in the form of Reagan deciding he should really pay for things, Bush 1 forgetting his command to read his lips, Clinton and Obama reducing deficits, etc.

Where do you get your information from?
Yep most American want little involvement from the government. We want the government to do what it was
Intended to do. Which is not what it is doing.

No I expect government to stay out of my healthcare. They have proven 100% incapable of running healthcare.
No no concensus is there except the one you just made up so I would like to see you proof or evidence?

Yes liberals employ voodoo economics all the time.

Taxes come through economic activity. More economic activity then more taxes are collected. Both Reagan and bush proved this.
Clinton borrowed money to reduce the deficit only after congress forced him to balance the budget.

Obama never lowered the deficit. He did send it soaring to 1 trillion dollars.
When he entered office it was only at 452b. So unless he got it past that mark he never cut he deficit.
 
Last edited:

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,587
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
President Bernie Sanders would have gotten almost nothing done. Republican Congresscritters had obstruction down to a science, and they would have blocked nearly everything he tried to get done. That, in turn, would have demoralized his base, who wants ALL THE THINGS and wants them RIGHT NAO. Thus the Democrats would have been crushed at the polls in 2018 and 2020 in ways that would have made 2016 look like a walk in the park. Remember, the Dems did make slight gains in both the Houses and Senate in 2016, but these got overlooked because the GOP still controls both.

Even sanders couldn't come up with a tax plan to pay for all of his so called free stuff.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...oosts-deficit-18-trillion-by-2026-study-finds

18 trillion dollar deficit over ten years.
Wow.

I would hope that congress would stop the fiscally destructive plan.

Not allowing horrible laws to pass is not obstruction it is called smart.
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,587
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Out of spite for Democrats or other candidates from other parties. That's where conservatives are making their big mistake. Instead of rebuilding the party toward credibility and reason after the GW Bush debacle, they hand the country Donald Trump!?! The Dems as afar as I'm concerned are going to have to do the same rebuilding, and thus far it doesn't look to me like they're getting the message, but the right is just doubling down on ridiculous and "replace Obama Care!!" - with what? That's just populace nonsense.

Actually it was more than just conservatives that voted for trump. I lot of independents and blue dog democrats voted for him as well so your perception is a little out of whack with reality.

It is easy to replace obama care with something that works and actually reduces costs.

The right is following behind the radical far right and that is where people like Colin Powell and John Mccain take a powder. As long as the far right leads the pack, then the Republicans are still gonna be behind the eight ball; sure, they won the presidency and now control both houses, but to what end? Just another empty alley where people get screwed.

So far no one has been screwed. Stop making stuff up that doesn't exist.
 

ChezC3

Relentless Thinking Fury
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
4,458
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
But I thought those numbers were a lie? Part of the conspiracy to discredit Trump. Now you quote them as Gospel?

At least you now admit that 65 million Americans didn't vote for Trump.

I said this when? a CT? Good news? I wasn't aware of a hold out?
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
52,328
Reaction score
36,840
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Even sanders couldn't come up with a tax plan to pay for all of his so called free stuff.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...oosts-deficit-18-trillion-by-2026-study-finds

18 trillion dollar deficit over ten years.
Wow.

I would hope that congress would stop the fiscally destructive plan.

Not allowing horrible laws to pass is not obstruction it is called smart.

Was with you until that last sentence. Obama spent many years trying to work with an openly hostile Republican Congress, and he was right to just give up on them in the end. Today's Republicans cannot govern with anyone who does not march in lockstep agreement with them.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I said this when? a CT? Good news? I wasn't aware of a hold out?

You cited the AP. I thought all mainstream media was a giant lie to discredit Trump, now you're citing their numbers as true?

Believing the numbers YOU provided, over 65 million voters did not vote for Trump. I'm sure that rankles you as much as it does him.
 

ChezC3

Relentless Thinking Fury
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
4,458
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You cited the AP. I thought all mainstream media was a giant lie to discredit Trump, now you're citing their numbers as true?

Believing the numbers YOU provided, over 65 million voters did not vote for Trump. I'm sure that rankles you as much as it does him.

You thought... I never thought...

Why would I be rankled?

65 million voters = 65 million dummies.

I make money off dummies.

Lots and lots of money.

To quote Bill Ivey (NEA Chairman under Slick Willy) in an email to John Podesta (Hillary Clinton's Campaign Main man.) "And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly."

To quote Trump "I love the poorly educated..."

:lamo
 

Eric7216

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
698
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Purely anecdotal but every Trump voter I know did it for one reason only.....he wasn't Clinton. So yeah, they'd vote for him again.
Instapundit Glenn Reynolds said exactly that in USA Today article about rating Trump's 100 days. He gave him an A+ on the grounds that he was not Hillary and he continued to not be Hillary throughout his 100 days.
Does he really need to do more?
 
Top Bottom