Are American Voters Actually Just Stupid?

[DiAnna]

Part of that is the media's fault. Fake News! They piped Trump into everyone's living room 24/7. Last summer you could not tune into CNN/MSNBC/Fox News without blaring headlines featuring a Trump gaff or outrageous statement. If they would have ignored him and covered Rubio instead, I sincerely doubt he would have made it out of the primary. Rather than cover a Bernie Sanders speech in Phoenix Arizona, after the Arizona primary, when Bernie was speaking to the largest crowd of any candidate, including Trump, the MSM showed an empty Trump podium until Trump arrived to hawk steaks and bottled water.

As Trump would say, Sad!

I cannot disagree. The press was so blinded by the headlines every Trump speech created (because of his unbelievable ignorance and willingness to lie without shame) that they literally flooded the airwaves with his ugly mug, and even uglier words. Not their finest year, to say the least.

 

[kitsune]

Delusion is a product of stupidity, it is wanting something to be true that isn't actually true, but emotions are more important than intellect.

We disagree on stupidity. At least in my experience, delusional people are not stupid, while stupid people are not delusional. Being delusional (as opposed to being insane) seems to require at least a standard ration of intellect and creativity.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

I cannot disagree. The press was so blinded by the headlines every Trump speech created (because of his unbelievable ignorance and willingness to lie without shame) that they literally flooded the airwaves with his ugly mug, and even uglier words. Not their finest year, to say the least.

The "Media" industry is no different than any other industry. The primary objective is to make money.

I could write 100,000 words detailing exactly how noble intentions evolve into compromises of those intentions and ultimately wind up as being nothing more than pure greed but I think I can sum it up in one sentence...

Humans are weak and the lure of wealth and power are, more often than not, irresistible.

 

[Lutherf]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

I think you're overstating the racist, xenophobe stuff....a lot. That may be what it looked like to the left but that's mostly because that's what the left was being force fed.

In the primaries a whole lot of people voted for Trump because they figured he'd be better for business and because he wasn't a politician. I was actually kind of shocked at some of my peers who hopped on the Trump train. They'd always been solid conservatives but they turned on to the guy like a moth to a flame. It wasn't an immigration issue for them and it damned sure had nothing to do with racism. It was all about business....and sticking it to the GOP that LOTS of us on my side figured had screwed us over time and again. Actually, that was probably as much of a reason as business was. The GOP screwed us with McCain and then dumped Romney in our laps. Their next trick was going to be sticking us with Bush. We were done with that crap.

So there it is, the emotional turn to Trump in the primaries was "**** You GOP" and the rationalization for that decision was business.

 

[Koke]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

Ah, the old "Trump's base are all ****ing retarded white supremacists who have no political insight whatsoever and they are the SOLE reason he won.".

Listen, I'm not even on your side and to be honest I don't know why I'm telling you this but... this kind of rhetoric is what made "the left" lose in the first place. If you think that Trump only won the Republican nomination over "qualified candidates" because of "muh racism", you have no grasp on what actually happened this election. At most what I would give you is that you're seeing a dissolution of the "center". This is also true in Europe where you're either getting a more clear right wing candidate (Populism, actual conservatism, nationalism, etc.) who's in an election with an actual socialist or communist-lite figure and they get respectable numbers.

This is happening because people perceive (and they do so correctly) that our modern political system is messed up and nothing can be achieved besides stagnation at best because almost all of our politicians are paid and indebted to powerful figures, not the people. Your criticism that the only reason Trump won was because of uneducated racist white supremacists would be like me saying, "Bernie Sanders only got support because this massive group of commies magically appeared and started voting because they're dumb.".

God damn I'm sick to death of people like you who pull this ****. You just whip out the sword of "muh white supremacy" instead of tackling any argument with objective facts and reason. I'm not saying in ANY shape or form that Trump is a flawless candidate carved from granite and I've given him plenty of criticism that is actually arguable and coherent. But you keep on touting around with this thing you call "debate" where you just ad-hominem the other side to death and think you won the debate... trust me, it only helps the side you're against.

 

[Puigb]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

and that's what will haunt GOP voters. The GOP in 2015 and 2016 had the largest field of candidates I believe in history...and some Reality T.V. star ended up getting the nomination, and that is despite the GOP establishment doing everything in their power to prevent Trump from winning the nomination.

So GOP voters can keep claiming that Trump won because he wasn't Hillary...but none of that explains the primaries. It isn't the Democrats fault that GOP voters decided Trump was the best they had this election cycle.

 

[Puigb]

Part of that is the media's fault. Fake News! They piped Trump into everyone's living room 24/7. Last summer you could not tune into CNN/MSNBC/Fox News without blaring headlines featuring a Trump gaff or outrageous statement. If they would have ignored him and covered Rubio instead, I sincerely doubt he would have made it out of the primary. Rather than cover a Bernie Sanders speech in Phoenix Arizona, after the Arizona primary, when Bernie was speaking to the largest crowd of any candidate, including Trump, the MSM showed an empty Trump podium until Trump arrived to hawk steaks and bottled water.

As Trump would say, Sad!

You know what's funny? I think the media may have wanted a Trump presidency. The media at the end of the day is all about entertainment. Trump is the ultimate entertainer...a Bombastic Reality T.V. star who says whatever he wants at any given moment.

 

[Puigb]

I think you're overstating the racist, xenophobe stuff....a lot. That may be what it looked like to the left but that's mostly because that's what the left was being force fed.

In the primaries a whole lot of people voted for Trump because they figured he'd be better for business and because he wasn't a politician. I was actually kind of shocked at some of my peers who hopped on the Trump train. They'd always been solid conservatives but they turned on to the guy like a moth to a flame. It wasn't an immigration issue for them and it damned sure had nothing to do with racism. It was all about business....and sticking it to the GOP that LOTS of us on my side figured had screwed us over time and again. Actually, that was probably as much of a reason as business was. The GOP screwed us with McCain and then dumped Romney in our laps. Their next trick was going to be sticking us with Bush. We were done with that crap.

So there it is, the emotional turn to Trump in the primaries was "**** You GOP" and the rationalization for that decision was business.

You had Ted Cruz and Ben Carson...both technically "outsiders", and neither liked by the establishment. And unlike Trump, who was a liberal for most of his life, Carson and especially Cruz have history of supporting conservative positions.

The fact that your ilk voted for a life long liberal one time big supporter of the Clinton's because he was a "business man" is a joke. Hell, the last GOP president was a businessman, and he sucked. Just because you are a "business man" doesn't make you qualified to be president.

 

[Winston]

You know what's funny? I think the media may have wanted a Trump presidency. The media at the end of the day is all about entertainment. Trump is the ultimate entertainer...a Bombastic Reality T.V. star who says whatever he wants at any given moment.

They got exactly what they wanted.. at the expense of American sanity. The Trump reality show got renewed for another 4 seasons. :doh. It is plausible the execs were making a last power grab as their business model is getting phased out by millenials and the internet.

 

[Puigb]

They got exactly what they wanted.. at the expense of American sanity. The Trump reality show got renewed for another 4 seasons. :doh. It is plausible the execs were making a last power grab as their business model is getting phased out by millenials and the internet.

Without Trump, the 2016 election cycle would have been another standard election cycle with two standard establishment candidates (Either Bush or Rubio vs Clinton). Trump, with all his lunacy, gave the media what they wanted. It's funny because right wingers always said Obama was elected president because of the media...but the reality is it's actually Donald Trump with his unprecedented media coverage who was elected by the media.

 

[Mac77]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

In my opinion it is the anti trumpsters who are stupid

 

[Grand Mal]

You know what's funny? I think the media may have wanted a Trump presidency. The media at the end of the day is all about entertainment. Trump is the ultimate entertainer...a Bombastic Reality T.V. star who says whatever he wants at any given moment.

Trump is a creature of the media. If the media hates Trump it's the same hate Dr. Frankenstein had for his creation.

 

[Mac77]

Trump is a creature of the media. If the media hates Trump it's the same hate Dr. Frankenstein had for his creation.

The liberal media allowed trump to win cheap.

They gave him a lot of free tv time that helped him a lot.

So in that sense it is the liberal media who is stupid not trump voters

 

[Lutherf]

You had Ted Cruz and Ben Carson...both technically "outsiders", and neither liked by the establishment. And unlike Trump, who was a liberal for most of his life, Carson and especially Cruz have history of supporting conservative positions.

The fact that your ilk voted for a life long liberal one time big supporter of the Clinton's because he was a "business man" is a joke. Hell, the last GOP president was a businessman, and he sucked. Just because you are a "business man" doesn't make you qualified to be president.

My ilk, huh? Actually, I voted for Cruz in the primary.

Look, all I'm doing is explaining why people I know voted for Trump. You can either try to understand that and, with that understanding, come up with a way to beat him in 2020 or you can continue to hate him and hate people who voted for him thus getting the same results you did this time. It's up to you.

 

[Puigb]

My ilk, huh? Actually, I voted for Cruz in the primary.

Look, all I'm doing is explaining why people I know voted for Trump. You can either try to understand that and, with that understanding, come up with a way to beat him in 2020 or you can continue to hate him and hate people who voted for him thus getting the same results you did this time. It's up to you.

To be honest, after Trump recently saying he finds the presidency harder than he thought, and the fact that he will be 74 in 2020, makes it very unlikely IMO that he runs again. However, if he does run again, he will have to run on an entirely different platform than in 2016. His record is all that will matter to independents, moderates, and those rust belt voters in 2020. His base will always vote for him...but his base is not enough to win him elections. And right now, his approval among independents is in the gutter. Independents preferred him to Hillary in 2016, but Hillary is now completely irrelevant. Independents thus far have been focusing solely on Trump...and the majority aren't liking what they see.

 

[Mac77]

To be honest, after Trump recently saying he finds the presidency harder than he thought, and the fact that he will be 74 in 2020, makes it very unlikely IMO that he runs again. However, if he does run again, he will have to run on an entirely different platform than in 2016. His record is all that will matter to independents, moderates, and those rust belt voters in 2020. His base will always vote for him...but his base is not enough to win him elections. And right now, his approval among independents is in the gutter. Independents preferred him to Hillary in 2016, but Hillary is now completely irrelevant. Independents thus far have been focusing solely on Trump...and the majority aren't liking what they see.

2020 is a long way off even for armchair quarterbacks.

There is plenty of work for trump to do right now without worring about the next election

 

[Lutherf]

To be honest, after Trump recently saying he finds the presidency harder than he thought, and the fact that he will be 74 in 2020, makes it very unlikely IMO that he runs again. However, if he does run again, he will have to run on an entirely different platform than in 2016. His record is all that will matter to independents, moderates, and those rust belt voters in 2020. His base will always vote for him...but his base is not enough to win him elections. And right now, his approval among independents is in the gutter. Independents preferred him to Hillary in 2016, but Hillary is now completely irrelevant. Independents thus far have been focusing solely on Trump...and the majority aren't liking what they see.

Comments like this read as if Trump is in his third year. The fact is that he just wrapped up his third MONTH.

Feel free to write him off now. Lord only knows people did that the whole campaign.

 

[Glowpun]

Comments like this read as if Trump is in his third year. The fact is that he just wrapped up his third MONTH.

Feel free to write him off now. Lord only knows people did that the whole campaign.

Comments made by Trump could indicate that the presidency is not what he thought it would be. Could it be possible it he will resign?
It is starting to look that things are beyond his capacity. And our friends and enemies may be starting to sense this. Look what the kingdom of kim did again. Statements made by Trump start to look as though Trump painted himself into a corner. And with it the country.

 

[Media_Truth]

And this mentality is the reason why your side will continue to lose debates and elections.

It was widely held that Trump lost the presidential debates.

 

[Media_Truth]

Without Trump, the 2016 election cycle would have been another standard election cycle with two standard establishment candidates (Either Bush or Rubio vs Clinton). Trump, with all his lunacy, gave the media what they wanted. It's funny because right wingers always said Obama was elected president because of the media...but the reality is it's actually Donald Trump with his unprecedented media coverage who was elected by the media.

I agree. FOX News, and their Tea Party promotion and creation, got Trump elected.

 

[Lutherf]

Comments made by Trump could indicate that the presidency is not what he thought it would be. Could it be possible it he will resign?
It is starting to look that things are beyond his capacity. And our friends and enemies may be starting to sense this. Look what the kingdom of kim did again. Statements made by Trump start to look as though Trump painted himself into a corner. And with it the country.

Kim is being the same punk he always has been. Odds are that in the next week or two he'll "have a heart attack" or "fall down the stairs". He might well be suicidal but I rather doubt that a large contingent of his generals are equally inclined.

 

[Renae]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

Playing the race card greatly diminishes your position and makes me realize you have nothing of value to add into why Trump is President.

I'll give you the truth. Think back to the start of the primary season, who was the anointed one on the GOP side? Jeb.

Here's a randomly chosen example, there are plenty:
Five reasons Jeb Bush will be the next president

The biggest other names floating were Christie, Cruz and Rubio, aside Trump.

Christie wasn't going anywhere with bridgegate and the fact that while he's a tough talker he's a blue blood progressive Republican in many ways. The base wasn't buying. The base didn't want Jeb because of the shellacking, both deserved and undeserved W. took in the back half of his Presidency. Most Republicans respect W. as a good man, he just failed in the last two years in office.

After that you had Rubio, a choice pushed by both left, because he's a more RINO than conservative and the elitist on the Right because they feared Ted Cruz and saw Rubio as the hispanic alternative. Rubio didn't appeal to the base after the gang of 8 fiasco, and his stance on immigration was.. well milquetoast at best.

That left us Ted Cruz and Trump in the final stage of the GOP Primary, and it was here that Cruz lost his shot, probably forever. He's a smart guy, a passionate conservative, a relentless warrior. The base approved of that. What we DID NOT like, was his attempt to play the evangelical card so hard, he came off like a more conservative but just as smarmy Mike Huckabee. No likes Huckabee outside the 700 club audience. And that severe miscalculation by Ted Cruz lost him the nomination.

Thus we had Trump. Flawed? Hell yes. Crude, rude and lewd? Yep. But he had three things going for him:

1. His business savvy, real or not he's a business guy, Conservative/GOP voters like business succeeding, we like more opportunity, lower regulations and less taxes. Trump played to that.

2. Trump is very much about shutting down illegal immigration. This is not a racism thing, while I won't deny that some racist bastards voted for Trump BECAUSE of the race implications, to say Trump won on latent White Racism is just intellectually dishonest at best, and pure lashing out at worst.

3. Trump, as mentioned before is a lewd, crude SOB, but he doesn't talk like a politician, he doesn't mask his feelings, and he talks a lot more like a "real" person than any of the careerist politicians so afraid of gaffs, bad press that they talk like they have sticks up their asses. Trump turned on the media and called them to the mat, he turned on the GOP elite and said, if I might quote Lee Iacocca to sum it up "Lead, follow, or get out of the way... and I'm leading here". Many of us on the Right were sick and TIRED of the political games. "We can't do anything! We need the House!" So we gave em the House. Then it was "We need the Senate too!" So they got the Senate, then it was "we have all these awesome CONSERVATIVE IDEAS!!! But we also need the WH. So we gave them that too. Look where it got us? The GOP scared to go Right, even though promising to push that agenda.. got them everything they ASKED FOR.

That's why Trump is President. Racists assholes were a minority within a minority and are shunned by pretty much all of us.

You are free to espouse your belief it was "RACIST WHITE SUPREMACIST" if you want, it just makes you look... bad.

 

[holbritter]

Can't tell you the dates, but Trump said we had to "take out the families of terrorists." This was a well enough known statement that Doonesbury satirized it in one Sunday comic. It is, of course, a war crime, similar to when the Germans would kill families or community members of the resistance in the countries they conquered. He said we would have to torture, doing worse than water boarding, which, of course, is torture, and among the crimes Japanese were punished for. Again, don't know the date, but easily found. Reportedly the ban on Muslims is still part of his website, and he keeps trying, tho mercifully frustrated by the courts. Hope that helps.

Yes, it does help. I'm always amazed at how "spin" comes about and how people hear one thing, and in their brain it evolves into something else when it comes out of their mouth. Depending on who you are advocating for or against directly relates to the reasoning that goes on in your brain.

Somehow "take out the families of terrorists" turns into "torture and killing children of terrorists" and a temporary ban from certain countries turns into "ban a religion" for someone who is anti-Trump. And for people not anti-Trump it might turn into "take out the family of terrorists" and a "temporary 90 day ban".

 

[holbritter]

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

Does is not bother anyone that if they believe this describes all of Trump voters, and he ended up winning, what this says about a large portion of the American population? That there are so many people who resent "illegal" (some always forget that little caveat) immigrants, watched their jobs and communities wither, that their hope resides in a candidate like Trump in the first place. That years under the status quo has resulted in such people in the first place is what this entire election seems to be shining a spotlight on. Yet, it will be ignored once again. Because instead of seeing the symptoms, the attack is against the results only.

 

[holbritter]

Trump, as mentioned before is a lewd, crude SOB, but he doesn't talk like a politician, he doesn't mask his feelings, and he talks a lot more like a "real" person than any of the careerist politicians so afraid of gaffs, bad press that they talk like they have sticks up their asses. Trump turned on the media and called them to the mat, he turned on the GOP elite and said, if I might quote Lee Iacocca to sum it up "Lead, follow, or get out of the way... and I'm leading here". Many of us on the Right were sick and TIRED of the political games. "We can't do anything! We need the House!" So we gave em the House. Then it was "We need the Senate too!" So they got the Senate, then it was "we have all these awesome CONSERVATIVE IDEAS!!! But we also need the WH. So we gave them that too. Look where it got us? The GOP scared to go Right, even though promising to push that agenda.. got them everything they ASKED FOR.

That's why Trump is President. Racists assholes were a minority within a minority and are shunned by pretty much all of us.

You are free to espouse your belief it was "RACIST WHITE SUPREMACIST" if you want, it just makes you look... bad.

That is the sentiment of almost everyone I talk to who now supports Trump.






That left us Ted Cruz and Trump in the final stage of the GOP Primary, and it was here that Cruz lost his shot, probably forever. He's a smart guy, a passionate conservative, a relentless warrior. The base approved of that. What we DID NOT like, was his attempt to play the evangelical card so hard, he came off like a more conservative but just as smarmy Mike Huckabee. No likes Huckabee outside the 700 club audience. And that severe miscalculation by Ted Cruz lost him the nomination.

Yup!