Are American Voters Actually Just Stupid?

[Linc]

Hmmm, that's awful funny, I don't believe I've EVER seen you support a conservative position on ANYTHING.

Quack quack. :roll:

Have you ever supported a liberal position on anything, such as conserving our National Parks as T. Roosevelt did, as well as preventing air--soil--water pollution ?

 

[Risky Thicket]

Hmmm, that's awful funny, I don't believe I've EVER seen you support a conservative position on ANYTHING.

Quack quack. :roll:

Who gave you the impression that I was out to prove my bona fides? I don't support conservative positions and I don't liberal positions. I support my positions. There are those of us who do that. Blind partisans might have a problem seeing it.

 

[Linc]

1.Stupidity of morons who genuinely supported Trump. These people are obliviously the poster children for why voter tests are a good thing. Trump's constant flip flops, Trumps financial and verbal support support for liberal democrats and RINO republicans and support for those liberal issues those politicians support should have made sure Trump was never in a republican primary. But those ****-tards voted for Trump.

2.Primaries being scattered through different dates, which meant some states got the left over candidates by the time their state had the primary.

3.Early voting before the actual primary day.Which meant votes going to candidates who were no longer in the race by the time actual primary happened.


4.Rat-****ing IE party raiding by democrats trying to set the worst candidate possible for republicans in order to ensure what should have been an easy victory for Clinton. Which is why open primaries should be banned and party switching shouldn't be allowed to happen until the primary is over.

Far More Democrats than Republicans Switched Parties for the 2016 Ohio Primary | WKSU
Why are voters changing their party affiliation this election cycle? - CBS News
Report: 46,000 Pa. Democrats Become Republicans Due To Trump « CBS Pittsburgh
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...more-closed-primaries/?utm_term=.3b056970693c

The progressive left wants continued 'open' primaries. So do independents. trump benefitted from cross-over DEMs who didn't want either DEM candidate.

All DEM primaries and caucuses have a proportional allotment of delegates by popular vote. Not so with republicans, which allowed the GOP's 'plurality' candidate trump to win so many huge 'winner-take-all' primaries .

 

[Winston]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

Nice find.

 

[Master PO]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

well your point is valid.

The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.”

the republican form of government that the founders gave us WAS a high form of government and it requires the people to be educated on how it works, because power is divided making it more complex

democracy as a form of government is a low form of government and does not require the people to be edcuated to know it workings, because power is concentrated in only ONE single entry and dangerous, which is why democractic forms of government are not stable and prone to failure


"when the people forget what kind of government they have, it will turn into a democracy followed by a dictatorship"

 

[Winston]

Trump is a racist but African-Americans are a homogeneous voting bloc. It's stuff like this that endears me to Alternet and associated moonbat sites.


I'll try this one more time because many on the left STILL don't understand...half or more of Trump's votes were actually votes against Hillary. Hillary Clinton, more even than Jeb Bush, was the epitome of the political class. Half of her own party didn't want her and only voted for her because she wasn't Trump. So, when you ask "If Trump and Clinton were the candidates would you still vote for Trump?" the ONLY answer most anyone to the ideological right of Mao would give you is "Yes".

If Trump was running against Sanders you might get a few more "I just wouldn't vote" responses because even as wacky as Sanders ideas were he was at least human (and besides, he'd never get anything through). Basically, there would be less harm in a Sanders presidency than in a Clinton one.

My hope, assuming we survive the next few years, is that Americans realize that we've created a ****ing monster in DC and that we need to cage it before it kills us. We should NEVER be in a position where a Trump v Clinton election would be this problematic because the federal government should never have so much power that it becomes a problem.

In a Trump v. Clinton scenario.. why don't people just vote third party? It's what I did. And it's what I would do again. Does the Green Party and Libertarian Party need to correct their messaging? Or, do people get bullied into supporting "their team"? Maybe I'm just a headstrong person, who can disregard the Hillbots howling, "Buuuut Trrrruuuuuuurggghhmmmmmpppp"

It just seems like a no-brainer to me. Don't like either choice, and there is a choice you like (Stein for me), then vote Stein. Especially considering how utterly repulsing both choices were last election. The thought of a Clinton dynasty happening, to confirm Clinton's hubris, as well as reward cheaters, is nauseating.. and well, I think you know how I feel about our POTUS.

 

[Nickyjo]

For what it's worth, here is my analysis, in no particular order:

1- Hillary has been attacked for more than a generation. A lot of it was dumb, some stuck. She was maddenly tone deaf on some issues, e.g., "deplorables" and a unifying message.
2- as the Clintons once said, it's best to appear strong tho wrong (Trump) than weak thought right.
3- the left, especially portions of the academic left, loses people when it suggests that an unemployed coal miner is "privileged" by his whiteness. Fundamental big advantage being white, but those closed factories employed minorities too.
4- in that vein, the GOP's southern strategy and voter suppression have been successful for years now. There is little reason for working class whites from the south to vote against their economic interests, but see number 2 above. Jesse Jackson's speech to that effect is lost in history.
5- years ago, I read that most US passports are used once in a lifetime to travel abroad. Assuming that is still true or close to being true, our voters are fairly unsophisticated about foreign affairs. I remember when we invaded Iraq, more than one person interviewed suggested it was payback for 9/11. But with a large country, only two friendly borders, comparatively little exposure to foreigners, never having been invaded, we pay scant attention to foreign affairs. Trump waves his member at the world and people cheer. Doesn't mean that we are dumber than Europeans, but we on the left keep hearing "keep your government hands off my Medicare" and wince at our casual attention to politics.
6- more people voted for Hillary... A few thou switched here and there and she would be prez.
7- so much the worse for her... It never should have been close.

Nevertheless, when someone says he will do things (torture and killing children of terrorists) that we hanged people for, says he will ban a religion, moves his family and family business into the White House, is so transparently corrupt, discovers that health care is complicated, and lies so blatantly, with magical ease... It's scary.

 

[holbritter]

Nevertheless, when someone says he will do things (torture and killing children of terrorists) that we hanged people for, says he will ban a religion, moves his family and family business into the White House, is so transparently corrupt, discovers that health care is complicated, and lies so blatantly, with magical ease... It's scary.

Could you please tell me when he said those things?

 

[ludin]

For what it's worth, here is my analysis, in no particular order:

1- Hillary has been attacked for more than a generation. A lot of it was dumb, some stuck. She was maddenly tone deaf on some issues, e.g., "deplorables" and a unifying message.
2- as the Clintons once said, it's best to appear strong tho wrong (Trump) than weak thought right.
3- the left, especially portions of the academic left, loses people when it suggests that an unemployed coal miner is "privileged" by his whiteness. Fundamental big advantage being white, but those closed factories employed minorities too.
4- in that vein, the GOP's southern strategy and voter suppression have been successful for years now. There is little reason for working class whites from the south to vote against their economic interests, but see number 2 above. Jesse Jackson's speech to that effect is lost in history.
5- years ago, I read that most US passports are used once in a lifetime to travel abroad. Assuming that is still true or close to being true, our voters are fairly unsophisticated about foreign affairs. I remember when we invaded Iraq, more than one person interviewed suggested it was payback for 9/11. But with a large country, only two friendly borders, comparatively little exposure to foreigners, never having been invaded, we pay scant attention to foreign affairs. Trump waves his member at the world and people cheer. Doesn't mean that we are dumber than Europeans, but we on the left keep hearing "keep your government hands off my Medicare" and wince at our casual attention to politics.
6- more people voted for Hillary... A few thou switched here and there and she would be prez.
7- so much the worse for her... It never should have been close.

Nevertheless, when someone says he will do things (torture and killing children of terrorists) that we hanged people for, says he will ban a religion, moves his family and family business into the White House, is so transparently corrupt, discovers that health care is complicated, and lies so blatantly, with magical ease... It's scary.

1. Any attacks were brought on by what she did. No one did it to her she did it to herself.
2. Right and wrong is now based on ones perception than actual right and wrong. Trump was right on a lot of things.
People in America want feelings and warm fuzzies.
3. Here we go again with the mythical white Privileged I know very few people white or not that got where they are by someone just handing it too them because of their skin color.

4. According to all results there is no fraud or suppression of voting. No we vote for people that don't like to take our hard worked for money and give it to other people. I would say that is voting in your best interest.

5. I travel abroad for work. Other than Warsaw there are few places I would actually live.

6. More than a few thousand way more than a few thousand. When you say more people you mean NY and CA.
7. That is what happens when you nominate one of the worst candidates out there.

It wasn't like you weren't warned.

 

[Grand Mal]

I've asked this before. Why did they vote for him in the primary? That is the better question

Exactly. Clinton was a shoe-in while the Repubs still had a whole slate of options, and Trump was the best they could come up with.

 

[Grand Mal]

Hmmm, that's awful funny, I don't believe I've EVER seen you support a conservative position on ANYTHING.

Quack quack. :roll:

Ya know, it's not that long ago that there were liberals in the Republican Party. In my time, and I'm not Methuselah-old.
Google 'Rockefeller Republicans'.
Riskey Thicket said he'd voted Republican, not conservative.

 

[Perotista]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

Given the choices last November, I too would vote the way I voted then today. I voted for Gary Johnson, not so much for Johnson himself, but against both Trump and Clinton. Nothing I have seen to date would cause me to change that vote. Those were two insane choices put forth by both major parties. At least in my mind.

Neither belonged within a million miles of the Oval Office, but each party made their choice which was their right to do so. The result of that choice is we now have Trump as President. According to Gallup, 25% of all Americans wanted neither. 6% of all Americans felt strongly enough that neither should occupy the White House, they went to the polls specifically to register their anti-Trump and anti-Clinton vote by voting for someone they knew had no chance of winning. Choices and decisions have consequences, the choices of the two major parties made resulted in Trump being in the White House.

 

[vesper]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

The reality of it all is we the voter had two viable choices, Trump or Hillary.

Oh I know much has been commented on those who actively post here at DP that were above the fray of voting for either and chose an off candidate, third party, or write in even though they didn't have a chance in Hell of winning anything. In fact the final results show that there were very few among us who actually threw away their vote percentage wise yet there seems to be an overwhelming number who post here at DP. And they tend to be the biggest critics of Trump and even Clinton. But the rest of us knew there were two choices and the winner in the race turned out to be Trump. And today if the electiton were to happen again, the results would be the same.

That doesn't make voters stupid, it means the Democratic party had one Hell of a bad candidate.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Dave, I could not agree more with everything you said above. And indeed there are no truth outlets. We are slam into the Age of Information; all of us battling to find the truth. Many go into that battle unarmed. All of us are wounded.

"What is truth?" Pontius Pilot.

When I was a journalist the "truth" was "what we know" at that instant, that time of the report or issue of newspaper. In politics, "truth" is what you can get the people to believe. A certain segment of the Canadian population wants to see a ban on Muslims, despite the truth that Canada has never experienced an attack of any kind from outside its borders, at least not since 1812.

Every attack in Canada dating back to the "Upper Canada Rebellion" in 1837. Soldiers patrolled the streets of Montreal in 1970 because of Quebec radicals, not "radical Muslims".

However, the facts of the matter are that Canada has not been attacked from outside since 1812, therefore basing it on the kind of reasoning of the Trump crowd, we should ban Americans as "they [statistically] pose the greatest threat".

The sheer idiocy is exposed like open heart surgery but this "Brave New World" and it's "Ministry of Truth" we are being fed "truth" about as reliable as the "statistical likelihood" of an attack against Canada. It has become an infestation. "Truth" for me is what you can prove NOW, subject to more information with the knowledge everyone lies.

 

[danarhea]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

Americans watch TV, where things are accomplished in an hour (minus the time for commercials). So is it any surprise that they expect our politicians to fix everything immediately? When the stock market crashed in 1929, it wasn't until 1953 until it reached the same level it was before the crash started. It would have taken much longer if not for the economic activity that was spurred by the demand for war materials during WWII. But that generation has passed away, and has been replaced by a generation of TV watching morons who expect everything to be taken care of quickly because McGuyver saved the world in less than an hour. LOL.

 

[rocket88]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

Considering that they keep electing Democrats and Republicans, yes they are.

 

[Nickyjo]

Could you please tell me when he said those things?

Can't tell you the dates, but Trump said we had to "take out the families of terrorists." This was a well enough known statement that Doonesbury satirized it in one Sunday comic. It is, of course, a war crime, similar to when the Germans would kill families or community members of the resistance in the countries they conquered. He said we would have to torture, doing worse than water boarding, which, of course, is torture, and among the crimes Japanese were punished for. Again, don't know the date, but easily found. Reportedly the ban on Muslims is still part of his website, and he keeps trying, tho mercifully frustrated by the courts. Hope that helps.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

[h=1]"A New Poll Suggests the Answer May Be Yes"[/h]
Even realizing what they believe is incorrect polls say Trump voters would do the same thing again anyway. :shock:



Source[/FONT][/COLOR]

The trap that all of these polls and studies fall into is called "dishonesty by omission". They conclude that Americans are stupid for electing Donald Trump, which is true, we did. But he was only elected because the only other choice was Hillary Clinton.

 

[kitsune]

I don’t think American voters are stupid, I think they are delusional. Delusion is not stupidity, but it can have the same results.

 

[Nickyjo]

1. Any attacks were brought on by what she did. No one did it to her she did it to herself.

I disagree, but fair enough

2. Right and wrong is now based on ones perception than actual right and wrong. Trump was right on a lot of things.
People in America want feelings and warm fuzzies.

But people have responded to strength, even if misguided. Check out the Mayaguez incident after Vietnam or Carter's failed attempt to rescue hostages. Popular actions tho failures... We looked strong but were wrong. That was my point.

3. Here we go again with the mythical white Privileged I know very few people white or not that got where they are by someone just handing it too them because of their skin color.

I hate the term white prove ledge. But we still have an advantage over our black cousins.

4. According to all results there is no fraud or suppression of voting. No we vote for people that don't like to take our hard worked for money and give it to other people. I would say that is voting in your best interest.

Agreed. Trump is the one who claimed fraud. The voter suppression was voter ID laws, which GOP officials have admitted was intended to help them win. Didn't affect this election, but still there, though hasn't worked as well as intended.

But puleeze, who are the people who get your hard earned money? Defense contractors? Russia? Trump's businesses? I get some of it for sure, as I am on Medicare, and have no doubt received more than I contributed. Wake up and smell your own subsidy. Price of a civilized society. Or did you vote for Trump to end Medicare?

5. I travel abroad for work. Other than Warsaw there are few places I would actually live.

Fine. Doesn't invalidate my point that we as a people appear to know less about international affairs those in other countries. Witness the example of the attitudes of people towards the Iraq invasion. Doesn't make us dumber than others just at times less well informed on some subjects.

6. More than a few thousand way more than a few thousand. When you say more people you mean NY and CA.

We are still part of the Union, last I checked. Election was valid, just that Trump got fewer popular votes. No biggie, has happened before. Such is life. But I read that a few thou in a few states would have changed things.

7. That is what happens when you nominate one of the worst candidates out there.

Not as bad as her bad press. Decent candidate, bad campaign.

It wasn't like you weren't warned.

.

How true.

 

[Cephus]

I don’t think American voters are stupid, I think they are delusional. Delusion is not stupidity, but it can have the same results.

Delusion is a product of stupidity, it is wanting something to be true that isn't actually true, but emotions are more important than intellect.

 

[DiAnna]

I don't know of any of them who voted for Trump in the primary.

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

 

[justabubba]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

not a bit different than hillary securing more primary votes than Bernie

we elect the politicians we deserve

and it appears we don't deserve much

 

[apdst]

This is EXACTLY the attitude we voted against when we pulled the lever for Trump. See what it got you?

There it is...

 

[Winston]

But most republicans actually did vote for him in the primary, over many qualified candidates (some of whom I would have voted for myself)... that's why he actually won the nomination! And frankly, that's why I and others are left scratching our heads in disbelief. So many republicans say they only voted for Trump because the alternative was Hillary... and yet, they allowed viable, qualified candidates to be run over by the Trump freight train of "it wasn't us" republican voters.

Why? A base that rarely bothered to vote rushed into this election; white supremacists, actual racists, people who resented immigrants and seethed at their presence, those who had watched their jobs and communities wither who were given hope when Trump promised things he would never, ever be in a position to provide, people who felt like the government didn't care about the "little people", only maintaining personal power... and they were right... uninformed, hopeless, undereducated... that is the bulk of Trump's base. It was a tidal wave of ignorance that we're all going to have to live with.

Part of that is the media's fault. Fake News! They piped Trump into everyone's living room 24/7. Last summer you could not tune into CNN/MSNBC/Fox News without blaring headlines featuring a Trump gaff or outrageous statement. If they would have ignored him and covered Rubio instead, I sincerely doubt he would have made it out of the primary. Rather than cover a Bernie Sanders speech in Phoenix Arizona, after the Arizona primary, when Bernie was speaking to the largest crowd of any candidate, including Trump, the MSM showed an empty Trump podium until Trump arrived to hawk steaks and bottled water.

As Trump would say, Sad!