Are all Religions being Destoyed?

[Windy]

Hell hath frozen over! Naughty agrees with a statement (in bold above) made by Windy!

But I think that was precisely the point that Sebastian has been making in his last couple of posts.

'Hell hath truly frozen over if you agree with me' :rofl
I reserve the right do disagree with you on every thing else
though :rofl in bold :wow:

 

[Datamonkee]

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" Karl Marx
"Just say 'NO' to drugs" Nancy Reagan

Who would have thought dear old Nancy Reagan was against religion? Makes you wonder, hmmm :rofl

Religions is dictated by society. Since society changes, so does religion. Society found the practical use of slaves to be necessary, religion backed this idea. Society found the subjugation of woman necessary, religion backed this idea. Society liberated slaves, religion backed this idea. Society liberated woman, religion has backed this. Society has demanded the acceptance of homosexual lifestyles, religion are slow to back this, but several have more than thrown their lot into the "liberating" of this oppressed people. It won't be that much longer before religion comes around to societies way of thinking.

As to Christianity being the most violent religion, this is only true because every other religion hold isolationist views. Muslims believe only Muslims will go to "heaven", Buddhist follow the 8 fold path, just about every other religion keeps to themselves and witness through the actions of their lives. Christianity is the only religion that requires it's followers to convert others with preaching, fear, and hatred. When you are told by the very tenements of your faith to "Go forth and teach" (paraphrase Matthew), you have little choice but to do this. With a religion based on fear (believe or burn in hell), it is easy to take the step to violence to "teach".

 

[JustineCredible]

Sorry for missing the 'e' justine
I am suggesting that ALL religions are being destroyed.
I did not say that my way was right.
I feel as many do; that religion is being destroyed to make
way for other factions in the 'NEW ORDER'
One system cannot stand whilst the other exists.
All over the World we are seeing a massive revolution
the old institutions are falling one by one.
Religion maybe one of the next to go.
Whatever religion you or your Friends are it may not be around
to long.

Well, since my religion is that of a personal nature, it will exist only as long as I continue to exist. That's fine with me. I'd hate to be touted as a religious founder in any way, shape or form.

Personally, I can't stand religious houses and believe they all should fall. Indeed there ways have been corrupted, but my belief is that they have been corrupt since they began.

Please see my personal quote.

 

[Pacridge]

Well, since my religion is that of a personal nature, it will exist only as long as I continue to exist. That's fine with me. I'd hate to be touted as a religious founder in any way, shape or form.

Personally, I can't stand religious houses and believe they all should fall. Indeed there ways have been corrupted, but my belief is that they have been corrupt since they began.

Please see my personal quote.

See Catholic church?

 

[JustineCredible]

See Catholic church?

I did not insinuate any specific "church." If you read "Catholic church" in that statement, it is your interpretation. I claim no responsibility for your interpretation!

 

[Pacridge]

I did not insinuate any specific "church." If you read "Catholic church" in that statement, it is your interpretation. I claim no responsibility for your interpretation!

I realize you didn't mention the Catholic Church. I interjected the Catholic Church. I just look at the Catholic church and see a long history of corruption and immoral activity. Everything from buying and selling the position of Pope to covering up for child molesters. Just seemed to fit what you were saying.

 

[JustineCredible]

I realize you didn't mention the Catholic Church. I interjected the Catholic Church. I just look at the Catholic church and see a long history of corruption and immoral activity. Everything from buying and selling the position of Pope to covering up for child molesters. Just seemed to fit what you were saying.

As I would tend to agree with you on this I still firmly insist that my original statement was intended to be directed at no specific religion, but rather a blanket statement with regard to "organized" religion on the whole.

 

[galenrox]

As I would tend to agree with you on this I still firmly insist that my original statement was intended to be directed at no specific religion, but rather a blanket statement with regard to "organized" religion on the whole.

I think that those who participate in "organized religion" would be fairly rare. Most areas, cities, congregations, and individuals make different things of their religion. It's organized in the way that we are all of a specific faith, but that faith is almost never specific. It's all up to interpretation of the individual and the community. That's why despite all of the bad **** done in the name of religion, religion has survived, because despite still being christian, I hold very few even similar beliefs with those who did the spanish inquisition, or shamgar.

 

[Joe ohhnoo]

My dear religion concerned! Let me tell you why religion should go from my own personel experience with God.
Our savage behavior is based on ignorance. I have had experienced ( encountered ) God He is love as Budda and and Jesus and Rumii point him out ( he was me!, you!). He was nothing like the personage Muhamad discloses of God ( muhamad God is Ego). He does not threaten. kill or disturb you but you do it to yourself and he is waiting patiently until you give up your wrong way and join him with all your heart. Since he is love, he never threaten and he does not need to threaten and he does not aprove it because he is not pain and because all is him and nothing is out of him. You can not harm God but yourself because there is only one mind. Let every one be and grow at their own pace , just bless them no matter what they believe. All religions are based on fear ( evil, opposite of love) and therefore ego related for control of one man by other man. We need to grow and leave the religion behind and become like Budda and Jesus. I believe that day will come.

 

[lamaror]

It is nice to have been contacted have been by you. Ok I will take look at what your saying. Your saying that the New Crusade to by Bush Fascist is good because it killl the followers of Allah.

I agree that Jesus doesn't preach violence. Yet the old testament and the new testament are full of violence. So I assume that you are telling me that when a christian is violent, it is oK?

world history is a history that is described by the Four Horse Men of the Appocalypes. Bush is the rider of Pale horse and is obviously followed by Satan.

Are you telling me that Mohammed is more violent thn Paul of New testament fame. :doh :2wave: :flame:

 

[Joe ohhnoo]

If you read my last post to you, you will see that I rejected religion in general as evil that include Christianity. Jesus idealogy is path of love ( turn your cheek) but his philosophy was mixed and contaminated with Moses evil belief ( old testament) in interest of the Ego ( the man) and it caused, pain, pain and pain. Even new testament is polluted. Any where there is talk of force, killing and accusation you can be sure it is not from God. We all are heading somewhere but unfortunately the old belief system is blocking the way. The worse one is Islam. Therefore the road will be bumpy. I am against voilence but... can we sit and wait for darkness to fall and consume the good seeds we planted. Historically this happened to humanity after fall of Persian empire, can we let it happen again. To know what I man.. Please Read my post, "a new sword for "Big Bang" part one and two.

thank you and blessing

 

[Windy]

If you read my last post to you, you will see that I rejected religion in general as evil that include Christianity. Jesus idealogy is path of love ( turn your cheek) but his philosophy was mixed and contaminated with Moses evil belief ( old testament) in interest of the Ego ( the man) and it caused, pain, pain and pain. Even new testament is polluted. Any where there is talk of force, killing and accusation you can be sure it is not from God. We all are heading somewhere but unfortunately the old belief system is blocking the way. The worse one is Islam. Therefore the road will be bumpy. I am against voilence but... can we sit and wait for darkness to fall and consume the good seeds we planted. Historically this happened to humanity after fall of Persian empire, can we let it happen again. To know what I man.. Please Read my post, "a new sword for "Big Bang" part one and two.

thank you and blessing

Can you please explain where new testiment is poluted please?

 

[debate_junkie]

Can you please explain where new testiment is poluted please?

Good question Windy. I personally see that religion can and will be destroyed by the extremist views held within each religion.

Minister of a church, going from city to city preaching (and I hate this word, but am only using it because it goes to my point) "Fags will burn in hell." " Jesus hates ******s."

Muslim extremists perpetrating their death and destruction in the name of Allah, where I've gathered from other posts on other threads that Allah is a promoter of peace.

Christian extremists, calling young women whores and sluts and murderers because they go into a planned parenthood building.. murdering doctors and nurses who perform or assist in abortions.

These are all examples of people within a said religion bringing about it's undoing. Of course, the media focuses in on these examples, so that's no help when the world view of each of them is slanted to make people believe that ALL are of this mentality.

Religion, faith, spirituality, whatever one wishes to call it.. is a personal thing with personal belief or disbelief in the ideology/dogma. The thing that gets me though is this belief that it's "all or nothing" Either you believe all of the teachings, or believe none of it. After all, and the Bible is my example, isn't interpretation left up to the individual reading the passage? There are many things that I disagree with in the Bible, and yet, growing up I was told that because it was the base of "my faith" (Catholocism wasn't a choice for me) that I should turn a blind eye and believe simply because the church says so.

I'll stand down for now. LOL My other half is reading this post over my shoulder and saying.. add this, add that, and if I continue, I'll be here all day.

 

[Windy]

Religion, faith, spirituality, whatever one wishes to call it.. is a personal thing with personal belief or disbelief in the ideology/dogma. The thing that gets me though is this belief that it's "all or nothing" Either you believe all of the teachings, or believe none of it. After all, and the Bible is my example, isn't interpretation left up to the individual reading the passage? There are many things that I disagree with in the Bible, and yet, growing up I was told that because it was the base of "my faith" (Catholocism wasn't a choice for me) that I should turn a blind eye and believe simply because the church says so.

I'll stand down for now. LOL My other half is reading this post over my shoulder and saying.. add this, add that, and if I continue, I'll be here all day.

Abu Ben Adam by James Leigh Hunt :smile:

Abu Ben Adam, may his tribe increase
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace
And saw, within the moonlight of his room
Making it rich, like a lily in bloom
An angel writing in a book of gold.
Exceeding peace had made Abu Ben Adam bold
And to the presence in his room he said
'What writest thou?'
The vision raised its head
And with a look of all sweet accord Answered:
'The names of those who love the Lord.
'And is mine one?' said Abu.
'Nay not so' Replied the Angel
Abu spoke more low
But cheerily still and said
'I pray thee then Write me as one that loves his fellow-men'
The angel wrote and vanished.
The next night it came again with awaking light
And showed the names of whom love of God had blessed.
And lo! Ben Adam's name led all the rest.

 

[StillPhil]

Yes.

But thankfully for every one that is destroyed, seven more spring up in its place.

 

[Tashah]

Just like Justine and many others here, I also embrace a personal sense of spirituality. Seems to me that the major religious sects have always either willingly accepted the righteous mantle of persecutor, or suffered horribly as the persecuted. I can't even imagine the oceans of blood that have been spilled in the name of holy writ. Sadly, the simple religious principles of peace, love, humility and forgiveness have all too often served as faux banners for the usurption and aggrandizement of power.

 

[Windy]

Just like Justine and many others here, I also embrace a personal sense of spirituality. Seems to me that the major religious sects have always either willingly accepted the righteous mantle of persecutor, or suffered horribly as the persecuted. I can't even imagine the oceans of blood that have been spilled in the name of holy writ. Sadly, the simple religious principles of peace, love, humility and forgiveness have all too often served as faux banners for the usurption and aggrandizement of power.

Atheist's and agnostics are having a field day Wow
for people who hate religion; or do not believe in religion;
they seem to know allot about it.
I have seen more verses from the Koran and the bible,
than I have ever seen, and they preach more than the bible
thumpers ever manged to . :2rofll:

 

[JustineCredible]

Atheist's and agnostics are having a field day Wow
for people who hate religion; or do not believe in religion;
they seem to know allot about it.
I have seen more verses from the Koran and the bible,
than I have ever seen, and they preach more than the bible
thumpers ever manged to . :2rofll:

I never said I hate "religion", I said I despised ORGANIZED religion. The difference is that one is personal and the other has someone telling others what/where/when and how to "believe" and "interpret."

You criticize yet you still don't seem to understand what it is you're criticizing. That's hypocrisy.

 

[Windy]

I never said I hate "religion", I said I despised ORGANIZED religion. The difference is that one is personal and the other has someone telling others what/where/when and how to "believe" and "interpret."

You criticize yet you still don't seem to understand what it is you're criticizing. That's hypocrisy.

I criticize? :rofl pray tell where? I merely made an observation.
I have nothing bad to say about atheists or agnostics.
Come to think about it I got nothing bad to say about anybody.
I am to busy taking the speck out of my eye. :smile:

 

[JustineCredible]

I criticize? :rofl pray tell where? I merely made an observation.
I have nothing bad to say about atheists or agnostics.
Come to think about it I got nothing bad to say about anybody.
I am to busy taking the speck out of my eye. :smile:

Nevermind that it's actually a log...

 

[Dogger807]

Atheist's and agnostics are having a field day Wow
for people who hate religion; or do not believe in religion;
they seem to know allot about it.
I have seen more verses from the Koran and the bible,
than I have ever seen, and they preach more than the bible
thumpers ever manged to . :2rofll:

Hmm could the fact that we know so much about religion possible be the reason we are atheists and agnostic in the first place?

 

[Windy]

Hmm could the fact that we know so much about religion possible be the reason we are atheists and agnostic in the first place?

I personally don't care what you are; or what anybody else believes.
The point I was making is that atheists and agnostics claim
expertise in allot of religions.
They appear to be far more dogmatic in their views; and sometimes
very extreme. That is an observation not a condemnation.

 

[loverofpeace]

I personally don't care what you are; or what anybody else believes.
The point I was making is that atheists and agnostics claim
expertise in allot of religions.
They appear to be far more dogmatic in their views; and sometimes
very extreme. That is an observation not a condemnation.

And religious people also claim expertise in a lot of religions. And come to think of it, I know plenty of religious people, yes, even Christians, who are very extreme. The Army of God comes to mind (among many others).

 

[Tashah]

Atheist's and agnostics are having a field day
Wow
for people who hate religion; or do not believe in religion;
they seem to know allot about it.
I have seen more verses from the Koran and the bible,
than I have ever seen, and they preach more than the bible
thumpers ever manged to.

Let's clarify a few things...
I am Israeli and Jewish and in addition, very familiar with the tenets of Islam since I live in the Middle East. I also live in the United States and ergo... well aquainted with the various doctrines of Christianity. I speak Hebrew, Arabic, and English... and have digested the Torah, Qu'ran, and KJV New Testament in their native languages. Can you claim a similiar knowledge-base Windy? I am neither ignorant nor ambivalent of the doctrines of major organized religion.

You take the pious liberty to speculate that I am either an atheist or agnostic and thus hate religion. This is an indictment well beyond your limit of purview and judgemental grasp. To equate anyone who does not fully embrace a particular dogmatic theology with an atheistic outlook... suggests a rigid and fundamentalist belief system on your part.

I clearly stipulated in my post that I composed and embrace a personal sense of spirituality. Certainly, everyone has the ability to cull the best that organized religion has to offer and incorporate these ideals into a personal codex. The converse of this methodology is also valid... one has the ability (even the responsibility) to discard any depreciated ideals that organized religion posits and promotes. It seems to me that to do any less... amounts to nothing more than blindly accepting a contradictory potpourri of both high and low ideals.

Beyond any theologic confines, it is also enlightening to critically examine the role of organized religion in a strictly historcal context. While it is obvious that the higher principles of religion have served to elevate the mores of humanity to a higher plateau, it is also just as obvious that many of these higher principles and mores were bastardized or violated to reach that higher plateau. To turn a blind eye to this implies a tacit acceptance that the higher ends do indeed justifiy the lower means. Personally, I cannot abide in this complicit line of reasoning. If religions are indeed destroying themselves, then perhaps they now reap the bitter harvest of what they have sown.

 

[Windy]

Let's clarify a few things...
I am Israeli and Jewish and in addition, very familiar with the tenets of Islam since I live in the Middle East. I also live in the United States and ergo... well aquainted with the various doctrines of Christianity. I speak Hebrew, Arabic, and English... and have digested the Torah, Qu'ran, and KJV New Testament in their native languages. Can you claim a similiar knowledge-base Windy? I am neither ignorant nor ambivalent of the doctrines of major organized religion.

You take the pious liberty to speculate that I am either an atheist or agnostic and thus hate religion. This is an indictment well beyond your limit of purview and judgemental grasp. To equate anyone who does not fully embrace a particular dogmatic theology with an atheistic outlook... suggests a rigid and fundamentalist belief system on your part.

I clearly stipulated in my post that I composed and embrace a personal sense of spirituality. Certainly, everyone has the ability to cull the best that organized religion has to offer and incorporate these ideals into a personal codex. The converse of this methodology is also valid... one has the ability (even the responsibility) to discard any depreciated ideals that organized religion posits and promotes. It seems to me that to do any less... amounts to nothing more than blindly accepting a contradictory potpourri of both high and low ideals.

Beyond any theologic confines, it is also enlightening to critically examine the role of organized religion in a strictly historcal context. While it is obvious that the higher principles of religion have served to elevate the mores of humanity to a higher plateau, it is also just as obvious that many of these higher principles and mores were bastardized or violated to reach that higher plateau. To turn a blind eye to this implies a tacit acceptance that the higher ends do indeed justifiy the lower means. Personally, I cannot abide in this complicit line of reasoning. If religions are indeed destroying themselves, then perhaps they now reap the bitter harvest of what they have sown.

As I said before I don't care what anyone believes.
I base my view on the observations I have made
In this forum and others.
I may be right,I may be wrong.
I have not condemned anyone; I also made that
clear i hope.
Because you do not agree with me; does that
negate my personal observation?
I love debate and find your view fascinating as
I do many other differing views. :think: