Are abortionists just lazy and irresponsible women?

[sissy-boy]

I didn't respond to the first or the last in your "series" because, really, they are irrelevant.

They were INDEED relevant. The FACT of the matter is that you chose not to answer them because you KNEW it would make you appear very hypocritical.

So I will ask you in another way. Would you REQUIRE a mother by law, to take a medication that would save her and her unborn child's life?? If not, then how about if the drug could possibly save her life but not the child's or vice-versa? If yes, then would you then want to pass a law that would require ALL people to take drugs to protect their lives? Is the 'sanctity' of life only afforded to the 'unborn'??

Why or why not?

And PLEASE, try to be honest.

 

[sissy-boy]

I know you do--and that is why it is impossible to converse with you. You cling to your vision of reality despite evidence to the contrary. You reject the very ESSENCE of the meaning of communication!

But I am not talking about and adult or a less mature individual--I am talking about HUMANS. ALL humankind, not just a single segment. that is why you can't get it. You think the being changes depending on location or maturity. It simply doesn't.

I'm sorry to tell you Felicity, but it is YOU that is impossible to have a rational conversation with. You insist upon the old staple alliterate or rhyming christian response or refuse the answer the questions all together. I would think that not many of the 'pro-lifers' out there would much like to have you on their side.

 

[steen]

steen, I have serious doubts that your recent posts here are productive. Did you not notice that Message #771 was written 5 days ago, and has stood unchallenged? You are just providing snippets that can allow sniping and bypassing of that showstopper (for them!) of a post.

Well, you might have a point. I just get on edge when people like that spew their outright lies.

 

[Felicity]

WOW! Seven posts addressed to me on this thread alone...I feel so LOVED steen! I'll respond when I actually read them...






....'Scuse me!!!! I mean 9 from steen and two from sissy-boy! I diddn't account for the second page! Geez...all the lovin! I'm over-whelmed!:3oops:

 

[sissy-boy]

WOW! Seven posts addressed to me on this thread alone...I feel so LOVED steen! I'll respond when I actually read them...






....'Scuse me!!!! I mean 9 from steen and two from sissy-boy! I diddn't account for the second page! Geez...all the lovin! I'm over-whelmed!:3oops:

We do love you. Have you ever heard the band: 'I Hate you when You're Pregnant'??

They're really good.

 

[Felicity]

We do love you.

I love you too, sissy-boy!:2grouphug

 

[Donkey1499]

Huh, so when Felicity claims this as an absolute fact, she is just plain stupid about it?

Well, thank you for confirming this.

Well, maybe "stupid" was a bit harsh to both sides, but it really is just opinion. I believe that a fetus IS a human, being that a mustard seed grows into a mustard plant; but there is a difference between plants and humans. So it's difficult, at least for me anyways.

So the question now remains :"Did I just call myself stupid?"
Y'all can be the judge of that.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

DNA evidence proves from conception the Baby in the womb is human and alive. The same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person was at a crime scene, So then the same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person is in his or her Mothers womb. Also do not be fooled at the way people use the word fetus to describe a baby in the womb. Fetus is the Latin word for Baby. I always prefer the English.:2razz:

 

[sissy-boy]

DNA evidence proves from conception the Baby in the womb is human and alive. The same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person was at a crime scene, So then the same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person is in his or her Mothers womb. Also do not be fooled at the way people use the word fetus to describe a baby in the womb. Fetus is the Latin word for Baby. I always prefer the English.:2razz:

I prefer the American version: 'accident'. I even told that to my sister when she was impregated. I said 'So, how's your 'little accident'? You got a good 'vacuum cleaner' yet? We call the abortion doctor the 'vaccuum'! hhhahha!!!

 

[steen]

Well, maybe "stupid" was a bit harsh to both sides, but it really is just opinion. I believe that a fetus IS a human, being that a mustard seed grows into a mustard plant; but there is a difference between plants and humans. So it's difficult, at least for me anyways.

Yes, we all have beliefs in this area. My belief is that frankly the status of the fetus is completely irrelevant as not even a born, sentient person has the right to use another person's bodily resources against their will. So even if the fetus is a person, the pope or whatnot, it still can't use the woman's bodily resources against her will.


All the other stuff is me arguing against prolifers' misrepresentation of scientific facts. So when you merely state your beliefs about what is moral etc. we merely disagree. That is much safer.

 

[steen]

DNA evidence proves from conception the Baby in the womb is human and alive.[/quote[]False. It proves the speciation as human, it doesn't prove anything about being alive. As usual, you are making wild and false claims. Please restrain your emotional/unfactual claims, please. When we spend the time dealing with the reliability of your claims, we never get to actually discuss the issues.

The same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person was at a crime scene, So then the same DNA evidence can be used to prove a person is in his or her Mothers womb.

Actually, it can NOT be used to prove personhood, so you are again outright lying.

Also do not be fooled at the way people use the word fetus to describe a baby in the womb.

It no more is a baby than you are an undead corpse. please cease the stupid and dishionest revisionist linguistics.

Fetus is the Latin word for Baby.

I already proved elsewhere that your claim is a lie.

I always prefer the English.

And in english:
http://www.answers.com/fetus
fe·tus (fē'təs)
n., pl. -tus·es.
The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

 

[tryreading]

...not even a born, sentient person has the right to use another person's bodily resources against their will. So even if the fetus is a person, the pope or whatnot, it still can't use the woman's bodily resources against her will.

This is the thing. How can a person be forced to grow another (person, fetus, cell mass, fertilized egg, zef) in their belly for 9 months? That's why I will never understand the desire of some for laws against abortion, if the current national legal situation changes. If there is future legislation making abortion illegal, it can't be enforced, not against the woman. No reasonable person would punish her.

 

[steen]

This is the thing. How can a person be forced to grow another (person, fetus, cell mass, fertilized egg, zef) in their belly for 9 months? That's why I will never understand the desire of some for laws against abortion, if the current national legal situation changes. If there is future legislation making abortion illegal, it can't be enforced, not against the woman. No reasonable person would punish her.

But to them, she simply doesn't matter. All she is, is a self-propelled uterus. As long as she doesn't die (and therefore can continue to pop out babies), her fate is irrelevant to these misgoynist fundies

 

[sissy-boy]

This is the thing. How can a person be forced to grow another (person, fetus, cell mass, fertilized egg, zef) in their belly for 9 months? That's why I will never understand the desire of some for laws against abortion, if the current national legal situation changes. If there is future legislation making abortion illegal, it can't be enforced, not against the woman. No reasonable person would punish her.

THANK YOU! This is much too rational a thought for the christo-facsists though. And because there are so many people like 'felicity' who will argue the point into every possible direction when the case is just so SIMPLE and elementary.

So the question really becomes at which point during the pregnancy is the mother expected to see the rest of the 'incubation' through? I would say that it there is always a grey area depending upon the circumstances.

 

[sissy-boy]

But to them, she simply doesn't matter. All she is, is a self-propelled uterus. As long as she doesn't die (and therefore can continue to pop out babies), her fate is irrelevant to these misgoynist fundies

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Bravo!

 

[steen]

So the question really becomes at which point during the pregnancy is the mother expected to see the rest of the 'incubation' through? I would say that it there is always a grey area depending upon the circumstances.

I say there isn't. If society doesn't want her to abort, society has to make it worth her while. She is not under any obligation to anybody, any more than we are obligated to give blood against our will.

 

[steen]

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Bravo!

Sadly from many years of experience with these misogynistic fundies.

 

[sissy-boy]

Sadly from many years of experience with these misogynistic fundies.

Then you'll probably like this quote:
Abortion As A Sacred Right

by Nevada Kerr

Abortion is a sacred rite that has been performed by women for centuries. The midwife, healer, shaman or witch is the holy abortionist. She has been hounded by christians for millennia. It is time for this witch-hunt to end!

With the help of the holy abortionist, in the form of the death goddess, the crone, or the medusa, we will overcome this new onslaught by the christian fanatics. Century after century these zealots try to impose their feeble morality on women. They claim that god has sovereign power over issues of life and death.

This is far from the truth. Women as the goddess incarnate in all her forms and in particular in the shape of the hag, shrew, or fury who devours life in her gaping mouth with her sharp fangs, has sovereign power over issues of life and death. Let us not forget that when she decides her children are fated to die, so be it! She is the mother of necessity. She is the groomless bride who traverses the bridge between the worlds and carries the souls of aborted children to the other side. Like Lilith, she mercifully robs them of their breath. We are all on loan here and the death goddess must protect her own interests! No one can argue with the whirlwind who sweeps the doomed away! Her word is law!

Today we hope to invoke the wisdom and justice of the sacred abortionist, and in defense of women we scoff at these hysterical christians! All hope for an overpopulated planet is born in the darkness of her lethal grasp! Praise loudly the victorious destroyer of unwanted and unneeded children! She who has the right of jurisdiction owns the souls of this earthly tribe! You may shudder, shake, and tremble! These are appropriate responses. Fear, awe, dread, and reverence are what the death mother has come to expect! With sickle in hand, she seizes the sated and weary souls of the damned!

These christians here today only make her job more difficult than it needs to be. Like a goblin-mother, she who suckles the stillborn babe also comforts the mad and possessed. Beloved and misguided christians--know that you are vigilantly watched over by the ever-present destroyer who will someday swoop down upon you and gracefully carry you away! The nature of desire, the truth of life itself has always been death--the all-seeing one who demands responsibility from those who procreate and overpopulate this overburdened planet.

Do not misunderstand! She means to do harm! You can invoke your insane and giddy god all day long. It will do no good. He has no power here! She who whets your appetite with sexual pleasures also whets the knife. She grasps, binds, and enthralls! The holy abortionist only summons those who are deserving of the call! She is free from imperfection! Like husks removed from grain, the unborn are hers! She marks her territory, a boundary these christians here today have crossed over.

These misguided christians think they can strike a bargain with the grave, shriek at the whirlwind, bellow and screech at the all-devouring one. The fearful one, the holy abortionist is deaf to their pleading and will win in the end!

There is in all things a pattern that is part of our universe. It has symmetry, elegance, and grace--those qualities you find always in that which the true artist captures. You can find it in the turning of the seasons, in the way sand trails along a ridge, in the branch clusters of the creosote bush or the pattern of its leaves. We try to copy these patterns in our lives and our society, seeking the rhythms, the dances, the forms that comfort. Yet, it is possible to see peril in the finding of ultimate perfection. It is clear that the ultimate pattern contains its own fixity. In such perfection, all things move towards death.


-from "The Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan

 

[steen]

:lol: Yes, I did, actually.