AR-15 Rifles: The instruments of slaughter & murder in America

[Oozlefinch]

I have never stated that. You are the one who is all hung up on specific bullets.

Yes you did. And bullets matter a hell of a lot, because that is what guns shoot. And different guns fire different bullets.

But when you demanded to know why shootings were made more often by the AR15 than the M1, you over and over insisted that the AR15 was picked because it was more lethal.

You did so repeatedly, and have yet to recant any of them.

You are simply a liar that refuses to actually discuss anything of actual substance and meaning. You only want to hear yourself pontificating endlessly. Either that, or you have some serious short term memory issues.

 

[braindrain]

I have never stated that. You are the one who is all hung up on specific bullets. All I have ever said is that the standard AR-15 ammo is extremely lethal. Here is what an emergency room doctor says about the difference in wounds between those inflicted by an AR-15 and a handgun:

“One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out of the ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low-velocity handgun injuries that I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived.”

Why can’t you all just admit the lethality of the standard AR-15 ammo and it’s effectiveness in killing humans instead of moving goalposts, deflecting, whatever else you do in order to move away from the meat of the topic.

The fact that it took a surgeon for you to know that virtually a rifle rounds are vastly more deadly then handgun rounds says a lot about your knowledge on this topic.

The issue is that the 556 round fired from a AR is on the weak end of the spectrum when it comes to rifle rounds.

But people like you and your dishonest surgeon want to pretend the 556 round is some magical round that despite being not lethal enough to hunt deer in many states is somehow a super extraordinary lethal round.

The fact of the matter is that many gun banners just like you have no real idea what they are talking about but they hear someone pushing an anti gun agenda so they fall for it hook line and sinker.

Just like when people like you who have no idea what they are talking about but see that an AR looks like a M16 so just assume it must be this super deadly weapon when the fact of the matter is it is nothing special what so ever when it comes to lethality or rate of fire.

 

[watsup]

Yes you did. And bullets matter a hell of a lot, because that is what guns shoot. And different guns fire different bullets.

But when you demanded to know why shootings were made more often by the AR15 than the M1, you over and over insisted that the AR15 was picked because it was more lethal.

You did so repeatedly, and have yet to recant any of them.

You are simply a liar that refuses to actually discuss anything of actual substance and meaning. You only want to hear yourself pontificating endlessly. Either that, or you have some serious short term memory issues.

I said none of this. You are the one who was all tied up about bullets. I don’t care about your stupid M-1. When was the last time that one was used in a mass killing. You issued a series of strawmen, answered them yourself, and then accused me of something I didn’t do.
Last paragraph: psychological projection.

 

[Daddyo]

Oops. Looks like you were lying:

“Semiautomatic rifles don’t shoot the largest bullets on the market. In fact, the .223 projectile, a common round for the AR-15, is not much larger than many .22 rounds like the Hornet, typically used for youth shooting sports, target shooting, and hunting varmints. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller.

What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds.”

The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than Others

How higher speed, greater mass, and more surface area increase the damage that rounds can do to human bodies.

www.thetrace.org

And the 30.06 cartridge has over 1200 ft pounds of energy at 500 yards lol. 4 times more than the 5.56mm at 500 yards. At the muzzel the 5.56mm has only 1300 ft pounds vs 2800 from the 3006.

The old 30-30 has more energy at 500 yards at 350 plus ft pounds.

Deadlier than a 22lr lol arguably the weakest cartridge in use. The 223 is as the link said a varmint round.

We only use it because it's still enough to get the job of self defense done and it's small sizes allows for more ammo to be carried for the same weight. It also has less recoil. So we sacrifice power for those mentioned above.

 

[Daddyo]

We’re talking about MASS murder. Please try to stay on topic. Why would a mass murderer choose an AR-15 over a .22?

Because YOU have convinced them of it's destructive and intimidation capabilities. Even though they are less destructive than most other centerfire rifle cartridges.

The Virginia Tech shooter ACTUALLY used a 22lr handgun as part of his 33 murders.

Again as we have said and you ignored...... IT AINT THE GUN!

 

[Daddyo]

True. Plus the combination of fairly rapid fire (45-60 rounds per minute), lethality of the bullets, and the large magazines make them very good for killing lots of people in a very short period of time, which is the goal of the mass murderer.

Rapid fire makes for lots of misses meaning that capacity was meaningless. Critical thinking pal please learn how to.

 

[Daddyo]

We have more than enough gun laws already. Let’s try enforcing the ones we have before adding anymore “sensible” gun legislation.

The people pushing for more laws even bans are the same ones who refuse to enforce existing gun laws.

Makes you wonder what the REAL agenda is.

 

[Moon]

The people pushing for more laws even bans are the same ones who refuse to enforce existing gun laws.

Makes you wonder what the REAL agenda is.

I think the real agenda is votes. By passing more ineffective laws they can go to their constituents and claim they’re doing “something”, and can try to pick off some independents along the way. That’s why I think people pushing these laws really don’t care about the number of victims, they just care about being able to continue pushing their narrative.

 

[watsup]

I think the real agenda is votes. By passing more ineffective laws they can go to their constituents and claim they’re doing “something”, and can try to pick off some independents along the way. That’s why I think people pushing these laws really don’t care about the number of victims, they just care about being able to continue pushing their narrative.

You’re actually talking about right wing politicians re abortion. Most of them don’t care a whit about abortion per se, they only use it as a divisiveness issue in order to gain votes.

 

[Moon]

You’re actually talking about right wing politicians re abortion. Most of them don’t care a whit about abortion per se, they only use it as a divisiveness issue in order to gain votes.

No, I’m talking about gun control, and the specious claims that proponents of MOAR LAWS continuously make, yet never seem too concerned about enforcing current legislation already on the books.

 

[watsup]

I think the real agenda is votes. By passing more ineffective laws they can go to their constituents and claim they’re doing “something”, and can try to pick off some independents along the way. That’s why I think people pushing these laws really don’t care about the number of victims, they just care about being able to continue pushing their narrative.

And are you saying that Repub politicians don’t do this, that they don’t show themselves in their political ads actually carrying an AR-15, or touting their endorsement from the NRA? Really?

 

[Moon]

And are you saying that Repub politicians don’t do this, that they don’t show themselves in their political ads actually carrying an AR-15, or touting their endorsement from the NRA? Really?

Are they using the number of victims to support laws to restrict constitutionally protected rights? Laws that they have no intent or desire to enforce?

 

[watsup]

Are they using the number of victims to support laws to restrict constitutionally protected rights? Laws that they have no intent or desire to enforce?

Strawman statements that do nothing but show your extreme bias. Plus you didn’t actually answer my question.
And yes, there are way too many victims of mass murder violence, and other gun violence, in this country.

 

[DebateChallenge]

The trial of the hateful liar Alex Jones got me to thinking about how the gun wackos get extremely upset when the term "slaughter" is used in reference to mass murders in a very short period of time by a shooter wielding an assault-style rifle. '

Let's take a look at the definition to see if the term slaughter applies. Here is a sample definition that I found numerous times in a Google search of different dictionary definitions: "to kill a large number of people indiscriminately".

Now let's take a look at some of the AR-15 mass murder events of the past 10 years or so:
he following is a partial list of when an AR-15-style weapon was used in a mass shooting:

• Feb. 14, 2018: Shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida leaves 17 people dead.
• Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people.
• Nov. 5, 2017: The Sutherland Springs, Texas, church shooting that claimed 26 lives.
• June 12, 2016: The Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, Fla., that left 49 dead.
• Dec. 2, 2015: The San Bernardino, Calif., shooting that killed 14 people.
• Dec. 14, 2012: The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut that took 27 lives.

Where AR-15-style rifles fit in America's tragic history of mass shootings

The weapon used to carry out the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas, is one all too familiar to Americans and lawmakers who have witnessed mass shootings occur over the past decade.

www.npr.org

And thus it sure looks like the term "slaughter" can apply to the events listed above, given that they are indeed "indiscriminate" killings since, in almost all cases, the murderer did not know the victims. I suppose that the gun wackos will complain that a "large number" of people were not killed, but I would have to ask them how many murders in a very short time with an assault-style rifle they would need in order to verify that it was a "slaughter".
To me, the killings of 27, 14, 49, 26, 58, and 17 sure seems like a "large number" given that these people were living normal lives up until the second before the slaughter began. The only question is when the next slaughter by AR-15 will happen, and how many will be murdered then.

Sure, AR-15s can be used for slaughter if they're being used improperly but so can gazillion other things, including gasoline.

Happy Land fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here more people were killed with gasoline then in any of the instances you mentioned involving AR-15 rifles, or for that matter, more then in any high profile shooting in the USA.

 

[watsup]

I don’t think you know what that means.

Of course I know what psychological projection means. It means that you right wingers constantly make negative accusations of traits and actions towards others that you actually possess yourselves. Psychological projection is almost universal among the right wingers that I have come across in internet chat rooms. I first noticed it in listening occasionally to Rush Limbaugh over two decades ago, and it has not changed one bit in that time. Every time I state it, look over your statements containing insults, and you will find it to be absolutely true.

 

[RF667799]

Of course I know what psychological projection means. It means that you right wingers constantly make negative accusations of traits and actions towards others that you actually possess yourselves. Psychological projection is almost universal among the right wingers that I have come across in internet chat rooms. I first noticed it in listening occasionally to Rush Limbaugh over two decades ago, and it has not changed one bit in that time. Every time I state it, look over your statements containing insults, and you will find it to be absolutely true.

Do you think they are aware of doing that?

 

[watsup]

Sure, AR-15s can be used for slaughter if they're being used improperly but so can gazillion other things, including gasoline.

Happy Land fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here more people were killed with gasoline then in any of the instances you mentioned involving AR-15 rifles, or for that matter, more then in any high profile shooting in the USA.

And therein lies the rub. AR-15s are used in mass slaughter when they are PROPERLY used. They were originally designed and manufactured to kill many people in a short amount of time, and that’s is how they are too often used.

 

[RF667799]

And therein lies the rub. AR-15s are used in mass slaughter when they are PROPERLY used. They were originally designed and manufactured to kill many people in a short amount of time, and that’s is how they are too often used.

Just because you think that is the proper use for your AR-15, doesn't mean the other 10 million plus owners agree with you. The evidence shows they don't.

 

[poppopfox]

So touting their rifles as light and used by the military is somehow bad?

If those rifles were not 'military' in design and purpose then why are the being advertised as such?

You all got issues man.

We all have issues man, perhaps you should examine your own, mine are few in comparison.

 

[RF667799]

If those rifles were not 'military' in design and purpose then why are the being advertised as such?

View attachment 67406187

We all have issues man, perhaps you should examine your own, mine are few in comparison.

Yours might be reading comprehension. The poster asked if touting the rifles as light and used by the military was somehow bad.

Your response seems canned, and inappropriate to his question.

 

[rahl]

And therein lies the rub. AR-15s are used in mass slaughter when they are PROPERLY used.

This is a proven lie. It is against the law to use them in this manner, so to claim they are being used PROPERLY might be the most retarded thing you've posted yet. And you've posted some retarded statements.

They were originally designed and manufactured to kill many people in a short amount of time, and that’s is how they are too often used.

This is a repeatedly proven lie.

 

[rahl]

If those rifles were not 'military' in design and purpose then why are the being advertised as such?

View attachment 67406187

They aren't. That's not an AR. That is an SBR, which is an NFA class 3 firearm.

 

[poppopfox]

Again as we have said and you ignored...... IT AINT THE GUN!

It's the gun industry of which you are a part. The Gun Industry Created a New Consumer. Now It’s Killing Us.

The people pushing for more laws even bans are the same ones who refuse to enforce existing gun laws.

Malarkey

Makes you wonder what the REAL agenda is.

And your agenda boils down to what? This?

 

[Maidenrules29]

And therein lies the rub. AR-15s are used in mass slaughter when they are PROPERLY used. They were originally designed and manufactured to kill many people in a short amount of time, and that’s is how they are too often used.

Damn. All this time, when I've gone to the range and shot targets and 2 liter bottles with my AR I was using it improperly? I feel so confused.

 

[RF667799]

It's the gun industry of which you are a part. The Gun Industry Created a New Consumer. Now It’s Killing Us.

Malarkey

And your agenda boils down to what? This?

View attachment 67406190

Perhaps the motivation for the good people at Everytown, as well.

Do they have a marketing director?