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Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news [W:62 : W:75]

Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Had it passed??
Didn't Bush own both chambers for a time??
I hate this revision ****. Lets get it reversed. Veterans are a stong lobby.
I bet Landrieu would be a yes. And she will win.
Okay, but Bush doesn't own it, Clinton had it passed.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Had it passed??
Didn't Bush own both chambers for a time??
I hate this revision ****. Lets get it reversed. Veterans are a stong lobby.
I bet Landrieu would be a yes. And she will win.
Does not matter, it's Clinton's baby no matter how much you want to make excuses.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

No excuses from me, just solutions like CC, with a reality check that Bush coulda/woulda/shoulda changed it.
Does not matter, it's Clinton's baby no matter how much you want to make excuses.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

No excuses from me, just solutions like CC, with a reality check that Bush coulda/woulda/shoulda changed it.
Look, Bush owns TARP, the DHS, and the Patriot Act, just like Nixon owns the EPA and everything that it has morphed into, Johnson owns welfare and all it's abuses. That's just reality, now, Obama can either take a look at the Clinton policy and change it or jump on the gun control bandwagon and risk further incidents, that's just the way it works.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Alas, I will agree with you. It must be changed.
Look, Bush owns TARP, the DHS, and the Patriot Act, just like Nixon owns the EPA and everything that it has morphed into, Johnson owns welfare and all it's abuses. That's just reality, now, Obama can either take a look at the Clinton policy and change it or jump on the gun control bandwagon and risk further incidents, that's just the way it works.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Look, Bush owns TARP, the DHS, and the Patriot Act, just like Nixon owns the EPA and everything that it has morphed into, Johnson owns welfare and all it's abuses. That's just reality, now, Obama can either take a look at the Clinton policy and change it or jump on the gun control bandwagon and risk further incidents, that's just the way it works.

How does keeping nutbars and violent felons from legally purchasing firearms risk more incidents? One might argue it's effectiveness at stopping all incidents, but it certainly does not create them. Forcing people to go through illegal channels to get a gun does allow for stings and other methods to get them arrested and jailed. it may also prevent them from being able to find a person willing to trust them and sell to them. I just do not see where making it harder to get a gun for crazies and felons risks actually creating more gun incidents.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Alas, I will agree with you. It must be changed.
Cool, my whole point is that it's not a direct attack on Clinton as much as his particular policy, sure, Bush should have revisited that and I really don't know why it wasn't dealt with, but now that we have two base massacres it should be.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

As an Air Force brat, I can only imagine what my passed Dad would think.
I wasn't even aware of this.
All I can remember is "open-carry", which the MPs should have again.
Cool, my whole point is that it's not a direct attack on Clinton as much as his particular policy, sure, Bush should have revisited that and I really don't know why it wasn't dealt with, but now that we have two base massacres it should be.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

As an Air Force brat, I can only imagine what my passed Dad would think.
I wasn't even aware of this.
All I can remember is "open-carry", which the MPs should have again.
MPs and civilian police can carry, but as other posters have pointed out there aren't a lot of MPs on base and the police would only be there already under very rare circumstances, everyone else must have their weapons registered and checked into the armory and unfortunately under an active shooter it's a bad situation. Sorry about your father, but you can be proud of his service.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

We have four great Veterans' Homes in Illinois.
I love telling this story.
We first got him to Quincy, home of the Whigs, 4th oldest in the Nation-1884 for Civil war guys-both sides of course-205 acres-"city within the city"
The image of POW-MIA flags on I-55 for the National Guard is imprinted.
We got Dad back up north in Manteno where his Alzheimer's took its course. They are taking care of Mom in a civilian assisted.
She went through the bombing of London as an 8-YO.
MPs and civilian police can carry, but as other posters have pointed out there aren't a lot of MPs on base and the police would only be there already under very rare circumstances, everyone else must have their weapons registered and checked into the armory and unfortunately under an active shooter it's a bad situation. Sorry about your father, but you can be proud of his service.
 
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Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Aren't the good guys with guns supposed too stop the bad guys with guns? That meme fell apart today.

Well...when the good guys are prohibited from being armed.....
 
Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

We have four great Veterans' Homes in Illinois.
I love telling this story.
We first got him to Quincy, home of the Whigs, 4th oldest in the Nation-1884 for Civil war guys-both sides of course-205 acres-"city within the city"
Quincy was the only National Guard to go to Vietnam.
The image of POW-MIA flags on I-55 for the Guard is imprinted.
We got Dad back up north in Manteno where his Alzheimer's took its course. They are taking care of Mom in a civilian assisted.
She went through the bombing of London as an 8-YO.

The only National Guard unit to serve in Vietnam was from IN, as far as I can tell. Love to see the reference on Quincy if you have it.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Not only did I see the monuments and POW references at rest areas north of Springfield, Illinois--referring to those from Jacksonville and Quincy in the Guard.
A Colonel from a local Guard unit here in LaSalle county went through the history of it with me.
But I will check.
The only National Guard unit to serve in Vietnam was from IN, as far as I can tell. Love to see the reference on Quincy if you have it.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

National Guard Served Bravely In Vietnam - Hartford Courant
My mistake--there were several, not just one, my bad.
Including Indiana, but there is no actual quote about Illinois, though the word "others" was used.
Thanks for checking me. We all need it.
The only National Guard unit to serve in Vietnam was from IN, as far as I can tell. Love to see the reference on Quincy if you have it.
 
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Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

National Guard Served Bravely In Vietnam - Hartford Courant
My mistake--there were several, not just one, my bad.
Including Indiana, but there is no actual quote about Illinois, though the word "others" was used.
Thanks for checking me. We all need it.
Possibly meant Air National Guard? There were quite a few Army National Guard units activated at that time in Vietnam, but using helicopters as suppression/support vehicles was a new concept.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

AR-15: CNN, Daily News Have Already Blown Their Gun Control Narrative

Tuesday's New York Daily News cover story is nothing more than a long-form editorial that attempts to make the AR-15 (a semiautomatic sport rifle) the bad guy in Monday's horrific Navy Yard shooting. Last night, CNN attempted to do the same through blowhard Piers Morgan. But there is just one problem: CNN and The Daily News are 100% wrong. The FBI has just confirmed that a shotgun and two pistols were recovered, and that the "gunman was NOT armed with [an] AR-15."

There is a lot of ignorance out there regarding guns and its dripping off people on both sides, but i would argue mostly off people on the pro-gun side. As a person that does not care much for guns, It really does not matter what type of gun was used. In fact, if I were to ban any kind of gun, I would ban handguns first because they are cheaper and easier to conceal. As we know, most of our gun violence is centered around low income areas in relation to drugs and gangs. Solving the mass shooting problem does little to nothing to solve the overall problem we have in regards to gun violence.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

There is a lot of ignorance out there regarding guns and its dripping off people on both sides, but i would argue mostly off people on the pro-gun side. As a person that does not care much for guns, It really does not matter what type of gun was used. In fact, if I were to ban any kind of gun, I would ban handguns first because they are cheaper and easier to conceal. As we know, most of our gun violence is centered around low income areas in relation to drugs and gangs. Solving the mass shooting problem does little to nothing to solve the overall problem we have in regards to gun violence.

IIRC, 1/10th of 1% of gun deaths are due to mass shootings.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Well except that he didn't, sure.

Here's the directive which resulted in that ban ... note the date ...


http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf


There are two dates on it. One header says Febuary 92, which would be HW Bush, other stamp however is Nov 08 1993, which would be after Clinton took office.

I'd heard it was a decision made by Clinton. Can we get some verification as to who implemented this?
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

There are two dates on it. One header says Febuary 92, which would be HW Bush, other stamp however is Nov 08 1993, which would be after Clinton took office.

I'd heard it was a decision made by Clinton. Can we get some verification as to who implemented this?
It's when it had the official force of law, Clinton is on record as signing it so that tells me that it was not in force until that signature. It could have been that it was proposed in the last months of H.W.'s term and not signed, thus not implemented and Clinton could have decided to sign the hold over and make it law. It's kind of like when Fast and Furious was attempted to be tied to W. Bush but the facts bore out that the W. administration shelved it because facts on the ground proved it to be a stupid idea, the actual implementation of the program was Holder/Obama.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

Im not sure it matters. These kind of attacks are rare, so theres no correlation that permitting or prohibiting guns would make a difference. Only that the people on the base would have had the choice to be able to defend themselves. However, it could also lead to more attacks of the Hassan variety.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

It's when it had the official force of law, Clinton is on record as signing it so that tells me that it was not in force until that signature. It could have been that it was proposed in the last months of H.W.'s term and not signed, thus not implemented and Clinton could have decided to sign the hold over and make it law. It's kind of like when Fast and Furious was attempted to be tied to W. Bush but the facts bore out that the W. administration shelved it because facts on the ground proved it to be a stupid idea, the actual implementation of the program was Holder/Obama.
Show me what Clinton signed?
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

There are two dates on it. One header says Febuary 92, which would be HW Bush, other stamp however is Nov 08 1993, which would be after Clinton took office.

I'd heard it was a decision made by Clinton. Can we get some verification as to who implemented this?

It was signed and made "effective immediately" by Don Atwood, Bush's Deputy Secretary of Defense. Everything points to that date being 2/25/92; the 11/8/93 stamp is probably just a filing stamp.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

There are two dates on it. One header says Febuary 92, which would be HW Bush, other stamp however is Nov 08 1993, which would be after Clinton took office.

I'd heard it was a decision made by Clinton. Can we get some verification as to who implemented this?
Well it clearly wasn't a decision by Clinton since it went into effect in February, 1992. I don't know what the later date is, but it's signed by Bush's Deputy Secretary of Defense and it states it goes into effect immediately. I also read that gun-free bases were even older than 1992, but I haven't found a verifiable source yet to confirm it.
 
Re: Ar-15: Anti-gun narrative blows up in face of cnn, daily news

It was signed and made "effective immediately" by Don Atwood, Bush's Deputy Secretary of Defense. Everything points to that date being 2/25/92; the 11/8/93 stamp is probably just a filing stamp.
Either way it's a stupid policy.
 
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