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aps agrees with George Bush

Navy Pride said:
Liberals always whine that the rich get all the tax cuts....What they conveniently forget to mention is the rich pay 90 percent of the taxes in this country..........

Its all liberal spin..........
Oh I love when you make stupid statements that you never back with facts. I enjoy proving you wrong so very much. Of course you always cut and run after being proven to be wrong and never admit you were wrong or you ignore the truth and continue to bullshit yourself.

So you say that the "rich" pay 90% of taxes in this country. Really? Where are you getting your stats from? I know! The I made it up as I typed it like I always do method = Navy Pride.

How about a story from the NY Times on taxation from August 2004? Creditable source versus your made up crud?
August 13, 2004
Report Finds Tax Cuts Heavily Favor the Wealthy
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

WASHINGTON, Aug. 12 - Fully one-third of President Bush's tax cuts in the last three years have gone to people with the top 1 percent of income, who have earned an average of $1.2 million annually, according to a report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to be published Friday.

The report calculated that households with incomes in that top 1 percent were receiving an average tax cut of $78,460 this year, while households in the middle 20 percent of earnings - averaging about $57,000 a year - were getting an average cut of only $1,090.

The new estimates confirm what independent tax analysts have long said: that Mr. Bush's tax cuts have been heavily skewed to the very wealthiest taxpayers. [snip]

Since 2001, the federal budget has deteriorated from a surplus of more than $100 billion to a deficit expected to exceed $400 billion in 2004.

According to the new report from the Congressional Budget Office, about two-thirds of the benefits from the tax cuts, enacted in 2001 and 2003, went to households in the top fifth of earnings, with an average income of $203,740.

But the report also gave Republicans support for their contention that tax reduction had brought some benefit to people in almost all income categories. People with the bottom fifth of income, for example, averaging earnings of only $16,620, saw their effective tax rate drop to 5.2 percent from 6.7. Yet because lower- and many middle-income families had been paying very little federal income tax in the first place, those in that bottom fifth of earnings received an average tax cut of only $250.

"It doesn't matter who you are, the report shows that you are better off now than you were before the tax cuts,'' said a House Republican aide. "It's showing that everybody's tax burden has gone down as a result of the tax cuts.''

The tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 reduced tax rates for people in all income brackets. But they had a disproportionate effect on people at the very highest income levels because they had already been paying a disproportionate share of total federal taxes and in part because stock dividends got a special lower rate.

People in the very top income categories fared better by almost any measure, according to the report.The average after-tax income for people in the top 1 percent of income earners climbed 10.1 percent, while that of those in the middle 20 percent climbed 2.3 percent, and that of those in the bottom fifth only 1.6 percent.

Put another way, people with the top 1 percent of income saw their share of the tax burden drop to 20.1 percent after the tax cuts from 21.9 percent under the old law.
See here Navy? The Top 1% of American taxpayers, the "rich" pay 20.1% of collected taxes...not the ridiculous 90% you so foolishly wrote in your last post. You are so far off the mark that it is not even laughable, just pathetic. Now back to the story:
William G. Gale, a longtime tax analyst at the Brookings Institution, said the new Congressional report was consistent with his own calculations on the distribution of benefits from Mr. Bush's tax cuts.

"It's not just that lower-income people are getting smaller benefits,'' Dr. Gale said. "It's also that these tax cuts will eventually have to be paid for with either spending cuts or tax increases, and those are likely to be less progressive than the taxes they are paying now.''
Source: http://www.theocracywatch.org/tax_cuts_favor_wealthy_times_aug13.htm

Let's see your facts Navy, you know prove that the top 1% of Americans are paying 90% of all taxes! :Oopsie :2bow: :2funny: :2party:
 
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DeeJayH said:
And let me ask you this, since you are so gungho for high taxes, did you continue to pay taxes at the rate you were taxed before bushes tax cuts?

or do you donate all the money you get to keep as a result of the tax cuts?
or are you just talk?
I tithe 10% of my income to non-religous charities every year. How about you? What charities do you contribute to? I'm very grateful for the blessings that I have and happily and lovingly enjoy giving back to my community...

Oh yeah....I also volunteer coach Rec League Basketball for 16 year old boys every weekend and coached Little League for 11 years in a row until my daughter was 17. The majority of kids in the basketball league are inner city kids who need a male role model, especially for sportsmanship. I am comfortable in telling you that I am the coach they want to play for because we connect so well and I treat them with respect and I have a lot to offer besides my time.

I also work with my 16 year old son twice a month in a Soup Kitchen in Lower Manhattan. He does it to earn Community Service and I do it because I enjoy it and I want him to know that doing it for Community Service credit is admirable, but it is even more rewarding to do it for the joy of helping others.

I give a lot of money to Animal Rescue, Greenpeace, Cancer Research (My Dad died at 67 from Stomach Cancer) and Diabetes research (I have Diabetes).

How about you DeeJay? What makes your feel connected to those less fortunate? How do you thank God for your blessings?
 
26 X World Champs said:
I did!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234426&postcount=26
Now let's see if you're full of $hit or if you're able to debate? Prove me wrong...c'mon...with facts not opinion...it might be a first for you....we're all waiting...let's DEBATE.

From your source, the only relevant information:
The Top 1% of American taxpayers, the "rich" pay 20.1%

Hoe does that prove that the tax system favors the wealthy at the expense of the middle class?
 
aps said:
Is this really true? I have a 30-year mortgage. While I know I would save $$ by paying it off sooner, does that help me tax-wise?

Just pay an extra 12th every month...if you can swing it, and yes, it is generally true.
 
Goobieman said:
From your source, the only relevant information:
The Top 1% of American taxpayers, the "rich" pay 20.1%

Hoe does that prove that the tax system favors the wealthy at the expense of the middle class?
Try rereading that post? I highlighted the relevant data. How come you're unable to debate the points...which means providing an argument with sources disputing what I posted instead of strawman one line replies?

C'mon...let's DEBATE the facts...I'm waiting....If you prove me wrong I will tip my hat to you and tell you I am wrong...Are you able to do the same to me?
 
aps said:
Is this really true? I have a 30-year mortgage. While I know I would save $$ by paying it off sooner, does that help me tax-wise?

I think a better question would be "Will it help me overall?" not "will it help me tax wise?"

If you paid your mortgage company 20K and wrote that off on your taxes would you save 20K on those taxes? Most likely the answer is no. Whatever you pay some one in the form of interest is cash out the door. Whatever you end up saving on your taxes is a percentage of that expense. Of course this is in most cases and surely with our whacked out tax code there could be some exception to this. But usually that the way it works for the average tax payer.
 
Navypride said:
.........He will never understand that the tax cuts that JFK, RR, and GWB were a great thing in helping the economy and giving the people their own money to spend......

Ronald Reagan increased taxes...look it up.
 
Pacridge said:
I think a better question would be "Will it help me overall?" not "will it help me tax wise?"

If you paid your mortgage company 20K and wrote that off on your taxes would you save 20K on those taxes? Most likely the answer is no. Whatever you pay some one in the form of interest is cash out the door. Whatever you end up saving on your taxes is a percentage of that expense. Of course this is in most cases and surely with our whacked out tax code there could be some exception to this. But usually that the way it works for the average tax payer.

Almost forgot. Here's a Loan Calc. to help you figure out how much an extra payment amount to your principle will affect the term of your loan. An extra 350 a month on a 150K could easily cut it in half.

http://www.locallender.info/consumer-banking/mortgage/mortgage-calculator-extra-payment.asp

So for a lot peope if they simply choose not to buy a new car every few years and lived with an older vehicle they could own their home out right in 15 yrs.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Oh I love when you make stupid statements that you never back with facts. I enjoy proving you wrong so very much. Of course you always cut and run after being proven to be wrong and never admit you were wrong or you ignore the truth and continue to bullshit yourself.

So you say that the "rich" pay 90% of taxes in this country. Really? Where are you getting your stats from? I know! The I made it up as I typed it like I always do method = Navy Pride.

How about a story from the NY Times on taxation from August 2004? Creditable source versus your made up crud?

See here Navy? The Top 1% of American taxpayers, the "rich" pay 20.1% of collected taxes...not the ridiculous 90% you so foolishly wrote in your last post. You are so far off the mark that it is not even laughable, just pathetic. Now back to the story:

Source: http://www.theocracywatch.org/tax_cuts_favor_wealthy_times_aug13.htm

Let's see your facts Navy, you know prove that the top 1% of Americans are paying 90% of all taxes! :Oopsie :2bow: :2funny: :2party:

You notice he said nothing about returning the tax cuts that he got that he hates so much...ROTFLMAO
 
Navy Pride said:
You notice he said nothing about returning the tax cuts that he got that he hates so much...ROTFLMAO
Your rebuttal to get your a$$ bitch slapped by me re your stupid comment that the "Rich" pay 90% of America's taxes is this ridiculous YADA YADA?

Have you no shame at all? You just got taken to the cleaners in this debate and you have nothing more to write back but asking me what I did with my tax refund? How pathetic your response was.

You never debate, ever...you just make up bullshit that no one except you believes...everyone else just laughs at the way you get taken to the wood shed.

smackass.gif


smackass.gif
 
26 X World Champs said:
Try rereading that post? I highlighted the relevant data. How come you're unable to debate the points...which means providing an argument with sources disputing what I posted instead of strawman one line replies?

C'mon...let's DEBATE the facts...I'm waiting....If you prove me wrong I will tip my hat to you and tell you I am wrong...Are you able to do the same to me?

I did read your post. You spouted all kinds of things about hoewthe "rich" got a larger raw-dollar tax cut than the "poor". Given that a rich person might pay in taxes several times what a poor person makes, its not a surprise that his raw dollar tax cut will be much larger than that of a poor person.

But that doesnt prove your point. You need to show the systemic "favor" towards the rich and how this "favor" is at the expense of the middle class and poor. To do thatm ytou have to look at a lot more than just the raw-dollar amounts of a tax cut.

Given that you havent defined "rich", "Middle class", "poor", or "favor", you havent backed up your claim.
 
Goobieman said:
I did read your post. You spouted all kinds of things about hoewthe "rich" got a larger raw-dollar tax cut than the "poor". Given that a rich person might pay in taxes several times what a poor person makes, its not a surprise that his raw dollar tax cut will be much larger than that of a poor person.

But that doesnt prove your point. You need to show the systemic "favor" towards the rich and how this "favor" is at the expense of the middle class and poor. To do thatm ytou have to look at a lot more than just the raw-dollar amounts of a tax cut.

Given that you havent defined "rich", "Middle class", "poor", or "favor", you havent backed up your claim.
Reading comprehension not one of your more distinguished skills? Here's what part of the post from the NY Times in 8-2004 said:
People in the very top income categories fared better by almost any measure, according to the report.The average after-tax income for people in the top 1 percent of income earners climbed 10.1 percent, while that of those in the middle 20 percent climbed 2.3 percent, and that of those in the bottom fifth only 1.6 percent.
Read it a few times to digest the meaning, please! It's tiresome to have to repost the same article.
 
Bottom line is the people that have the smallest incomes pay little or no income taxes........That is a fact that even Champs can't spin.......:roll:
 
Navy Pride said:
Bottom line is the people that have the smallest incomes pay little or no income taxes........That is a fact that even Champs can't spin.......:roll:
Wrong, as always! For once in a blue moon prove the $hit you post has some fact in it by using a non-newsmax link!

I guess math wasn't a priority in the Navy Pride school system? STATISTICS don't lie and what you wrote is STATISTICALLY INACCURATE...AGAIN...

sta·tis·tics Pronunciation Key (st-tstks)
n.

1. (used with a sing. verb) The mathematics of the collection, organization, and interpretation of numerical data, especially the analysis of population characteristics by inference from sampling.
 
26 X World Champs said:
I tithe 10% of my income to non-religous charities every year. How about you? What charities do you contribute to? I'm very grateful for the blessings that I have and happily and lovingly enjoy giving back to my community...

Oh yeah....I also volunteer coach Rec League Basketball for 16 year old boys every weekend and coached Little League for 11 years in a row until my daughter was 17. The majority of kids in the basketball league are inner city kids who need a male role model, especially for sportsmanship. I am comfortable in telling you that I am the coach they want to play for because we connect so well and I treat them with respect and I have a lot to offer besides my time.

I also work with my 16 year old son twice a month in a Soup Kitchen in Lower Manhattan. He does it to earn Community Service and I do it because I enjoy it and I want him to know that doing it for Community Service credit is admirable, but it is even more rewarding to do it for the joy of helping others.

I give a lot of money to Animal Rescue, Greenpeace, Cancer Research (My Dad died at 67 from Stomach Cancer) and Diabetes research (I have Diabetes).

How about you DeeJay? What makes your feel connected to those less fortunate? How do you thank God for your blessings?

despite major differences with alot of posters here, I believe that the people that visit boards like these, are more up on the issues, and are more involved in the community than those who are busy watching tv.

however i did not see you say that you contribute to charity and that as a result of the Bush Tax Cuts you contribute so much more.

I support Habitat for Humanity (despite Jimmy Carter) and C.A.R.E.S. ( Community Aging and Retirement Services). I also donte $250 from each listing i get to the charity of choice of the Seller, in the sellers name. Also, through the firm i work with we are the sole sponsor of this years Tarpon Springs Concerts. We also adopted 2 New Orleans families that were relocated here in the Tampa Bay area

now maybe you can address what i asked you
rather than quoting just the charities you are involved with
do you give away your entire Dubya Tax Break on top of what you normally give out of the kindness of your heart
 
DeeJayH said:
despite major differences with alot of posters here, I believe that the people that visit boards like these, are more up on the issues, and are more involved in the community than those who are busy watching tv.

however i did not see you say that you contribute to charity and that as a result of the Bush Tax Cuts you contribute so much more.

I support Habitat for Humanity (despite Jimmy Carter) and C.A.R.E.S. ( Community Aging and Retirement Services). I also donte $250 from each listing i get to the charity of choice of the Seller, in the sellers name. Also, through the firm i work with we are the sole sponsor of this years Tarpon Springs Concerts. We also adopted 2 New Orleans families that were relocated here in the Tampa Bay area

now maybe you can address what i asked you
rather than quoting just the charities you are involved with
do you give away your entire Dubya Tax Break on top of what you normally give out of the kindness of your heart
Hey Deejay...good stuff, sincerely! I think what you're doing is outstanding and I'm guessing that the feeling of satisfaction that you get from it is what I feel when I donate my time and money. Politics aside I want you to know that I really respect people who put the greater good ahead of themselves...which shouldn't surprise you since IMHO part of being Liberal is to give back.

There's an old saying that I've always loved:

"You can't keep it unless you give it away."

Now to answer your question. No, I did not donate "extra" due to the tax cut just as I do not pay "extra" taxes because I believe in taxation. I paid what I was supposed to pay and will always continue to do so.

From my point of view the way to change the tax cuts is to vote in representatives who agree with me and will legislate change. That's how the system works and that is the way to effect change.

It's an absurd talking point, a strawman argument to divert the debate to the "did you give back your tax cut" bullshit. What is not bullshit is that this Administration has consistently legislated laws that favor the rich at the expense of the poor, and I'm not just talking about taxes.

For anyone to latch onto to the "return the tax refund" argument as meaningful is ridiculous, pointless and to me proves how weak a debater they are and how weak their argument is.

Sorry...not meaning to point any fingers at you, it was really meant for others who do not have the clear thinking that you usually display.

Just because we disagree on most things politically does not mean that we disagree about most things. Politics is a portion of our essence but there are so many other ways to define someone and to me one's charitable work and volunteering of themselves is a much greater measurement of character than their politcal loyalties.
 
aps said:
Is this really true? I have a 30-year mortgage. While I know I would save $$ by paying it off sooner, does that help me tax-wise?


Interest you pay on a mortgage during the year can be deductable.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Reading comprehension not one of your more distinguished skills? Here's what part of the post from the NY Times in 8-2004 said:

People in the very top income categories fared better by almost any measure, according to the report.The average after-tax income for people in the top 1 percent of income earners climbed 10.1 percent, while that of those in the middle 20 percent climbed 2.3 percent, and that of those in the bottom fifth only 1.6 percent.

Read it a few times to digest the meaning, please! It's tiresome to have to repost the same article.

Yes. You posted that.
How does it support your claim?

Remember, that youre trying to prove that the income tax system itself favors the "rich" to the expense of the "poor" and "middle class". Your paragraph here regarding the income tax cut does this....how?

Here's a hint:
You need to start by comparing the income taxes each "class" pay in terms of % of their income. You then need to show that the "Rich" pay a disproportiantely lower % in income taxes than the "Poor" or "Middle class". If you like, you can limit your examples to familes of 4.

I've been asking the same question for some time now., Your failure to deliver answers that support your claim is getting tiresome. One will soon be forced to conclude that you don't have any such answers.
 
Goobieman said:
Yes. You posted that.
How does it support your claim?

Remember, that youre trying to prove that the income tax system itself favors the "rich" to the expense of the "poor" and "middle class". Your paragraph here regarding the income tax cut does this....how?
One fine example is Social Security Tax. The percentage to total income that a wage earner who has income over, say $250K pays in SSI vs. someone who has an income of $50K is as follows:

Someone making $50K pays 6.2% of his income to SSI. Capiche?

Someone making $250K pays 3.8% of his income to SSI.

SSI taxable income for 2006 is collected on the first $94,200 earned. If this law were changed and SSI was collected on all earnings then it would be equitable BUT as it is now set up those who need their income the most have a far greater burden than those who do not.

You know how much a person earning $1,000,000 pays as a percentage to his income? 0.09%! Less than 1% of their income.

This is just one example for you. Now it's your turn to actually debate. You always avoid or shun the topic by twisting the question away from you having to answer. Well now it's time for you to do something new for you on DEBATE POLITICS, actually rebut my points with FACTS that include links to a reliable source that is creditable and not opinion based.

My source for the numbers used was:

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10003.html

If you are unable to address the specific point that I just brought up than everyone will know that you have nothing to contribute to this thread other than prejudicial non-fact based opinions that have no basis in truth.

Here's the ball...try running with it...or will you fumble?
 
26 X World Champs said:
One fine example is Social Security Tax.

SocSec (FICA) tax isnt income tax - its a payroll tax based on income, which is not the same thing.

And so, any argument regarding SocSec tax is meaningless to your argument regarding the way the income tax system "favors" the rich. You're arguing apples when tr\alking about oranges.

Try again. Don't drop the ball this time.
 
Goobieman said:
SocSec (FICA) tax isnt income tax - its a payroll tax based on income, which is not the same thing.

And so, any argument regarding SocSec tax is meaningless to your argument regarding the way the income tax system "favors" the rich. You're arguing apples when tr\alking about oranges.

Try again. Don't drop the ball this time.
Your posts are full of $hit, every time. It's not a debate with you because you never debate.

When you're ready to debate we can try again, but at this point I'm done with you as you're a waste.

Do you realize that you've NEVER written a post that is a debating point, ever? You only try to incite others or make false statements.

BTW - I never said INCOME tax, I wrote TAXES so stop the strawman nothing posts they're useless and worthless.

Have fun playing with yourself.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Your posts are full of $hit, every time. It's not a debate with you because you never debate.

When you're ready to debate we can try again, but at this point I'm done with you as you're a waste.

Do you realize that you've NEVER written a post that is a debating point, ever? You only try to incite others or make false statements.

BTW - I never said INCOME tax, I wrote TAXES so stop the strawman nothing posts they're useless and worthless.

Have fun playing with yourself.


Yep - that's what I thought. You're like a 78 Mustang -- all show and no go.

Let me know when you can man-up and defend something you say.
 
Goobieman said:
Yep - that's what I thought. You're like a 78 Mustang -- all show and no go.

Let me know when you can man-up and defend something you say.

It ain't gonna happen my friend............You are relatively new here.....You will find like the rest of us that when you make a debating point with him he will resort to name calling and insults as he is doing to you now..........That is pretty much why I ignore the majority of his posts........
 
DeeJayH said:
despite major differences with alot of posters here, I believe that the people that visit boards like these, are more up on the issues, and are more involved in the community than those who are busy watching tv.

however i did not see you say that you contribute to charity and that as a result of the Bush Tax Cuts you contribute so much more.

I support Habitat for Humanity (despite Jimmy Carter) and C.A.R.E.S. ( Community Aging and Retirement Services). I also donte $250 from each listing i get to the charity of choice of the Seller, in the sellers name. Also, through the firm i work with we are the sole sponsor of this years Tarpon Springs Concerts. We also adopted 2 New Orleans families that were relocated here in the Tampa Bay area

now maybe you can address what i asked you
rather than quoting just the charities you are involved with
do you give away your entire Dubya Tax Break on top of what you normally give out of the kindness of your heart

You're from Tampa too, so am I, and so is teach. wtf?
 
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