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Apple will report images of child sexual abuse detected on iCloud to law enforcement

madman

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I have no problem with this. This should be done with all online cloud services. HOWEVER, this is a dilemma for Big gov Cons and Libertarians. Or is it? Is it only acceptable for anything you deem "really, really, bad?"

You guys better sleep with one eye open.


Apple will report images of child exploitation uploaded to iCloud in the U.S. to law enforcement, the company said on Thursday.

The new system will detect images called Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM) using a process called hashing, where images are transformed into unique numbers that correspond to that image.




Apple started testing the system on Thursday, but most U.S. iPhone users won’t be part of it until an iOS 15 update later this year, Apple said.

The move brings Apple in line with other cloud services which already scan user files, often using hashing systems, for content that violates their terms of service, including child exploitation images.
 

Northern Light

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There isn't one person out there who wouldn't support going after child pornographers. The problem is that this has been an excuse to increase violations on our freedoms. In Australia it was the excuse for creating an internet fire wall, and now their government uses it to censor all kinds of other things.

I would never trust Apple with my data, nor Google. These companies are turning evil and will use any excuse to mine consumer data.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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How long before a couple of doting grandparents get hauled up on charges because Apple noticed a clip of "baby's first bath" at grandma's house.
See, I think it's great to try and leverage technology to catch these monsters, but my faith in Apple to do it properly is not very strong.
They will screw up big time and refuse all accountability for their mistakes, which will be legion.

Just like Facebook is currently doing.
 

Integrityrespec

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I have no problem with this. This should be done with all online cloud services. HOWEVER, this is a dilemma for Big gov Cons and Libertarians. Or is it? Is it only acceptable for anything you deem "really, really, bad?"

You guys better sleep with one eye open.

Reign of Terror. We are also encouraging people to report those who don't follow the Covid protocols. Sounds kinda of anti-demorcatic.
 

PeteEU

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I have no problem with this. This should be done with all online cloud services. HOWEVER, this is a dilemma for Big gov Cons and Libertarians. Or is it? Is it only acceptable for anything you deem "really, really, bad?"

You guys better sleep with one eye open.


Are you sure you are okay with this part? Lets ignore the child porn aspect and look at the technical aspect.

The matching process is done on the user’s iPhone, not in the cloud, Apple said.

Basically they are scanning your iPhone (and most likely also your Mac) BEFORE it is uploaded to iCloud.

Remember, iCloud is automatically activated when you get your iPhone, which means Apple will automatically be scanning your files. They claim to only scan images, but they also said privacy was their number one issue and then they went and did this.
The system only works on images uploaded to iCloud, which users can turn off, Apple said. Photos or other images on a device that haven’t been uploaded to Apple servers won’t be part of the system.

And we are expected to believe this after this new "feature" that goes against all privacy rules they have set up in the first place? Amazing how Apple suddenly is able to decrypt stuff on your account, but not able to reset the password on a dead customers iPad or iPhone.

Lets put it this way.. techies are up in arms over this method and point out that cloud services have been scanning their systems for years for copy write material and most likely also child porn... and then Apple suddenly does this? You try to upload a pirated movie to Dropbox or Google drive and see how long that stays around. And if Apple has not been scanning its iCloud for this stuff, then why in the hell do they need to do the scanning on devices and not when the material are on their servers?
 

AliHajiSheik

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They should post their algorithm so we can evaluate the criteria they are using to determine such pictures.
 

ElChupacabra

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They should post their algorithm so we can evaluate the criteria they are using to determine such pictures.
This ties into the point @Checkerboard Strangler made, and I agree that there are definitely concerns around how these images are being identified. The last thing we need is people being investigated for pictures of their naked babies in a bathtub.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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They should post their algorithm so we can evaluate the criteria they are using to determine such pictures.

You mean so James O'Keefe can turn it into an expose about "how Democrats enable NAMBLA?"
I guarantee you, posting their algorithm will only invite third party voluntarist CT manufacturing.
No one will even bother trying to UNDERSTAND the algorithm, because the same people won't even bother trying to understand how a f****g vaccine works.
 

Ikari

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Oh noes! Big Brother!
 

AliHajiSheik

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You mean so James O'Keefe can turn it into an expose about "how Democrats enable NAMBLA?"
I guarantee you, posting their algorithm will only invite third party voluntarist CT manufacturing.
No one will even bother trying to UNDERSTAND the algorithm, because the same people won't even bother trying to understand how a f****g vaccine works.
No, I mean that I can make my point without having someone try to twist it into something I didn't say, and take a left turn at Albuquerque I have no desire to make.
 

Questerr

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I have no problem with this. This should be done with all online cloud services. HOWEVER, this is a dilemma for Big gov Cons and Libertarians. Or is it? Is it only acceptable for anything you deem "really, really, bad?"

You guys better sleep with one eye open.


The bigger issue is what happens in the future when Apple acquiesces to the Chinese government (or other authoritarian states) and starts handing over user data that contains anti-regime images or messages.

We already know that capitalists don’t give a **** about people’s lives, just continued short term profits.
 

Infinite Chaos

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The bigger issue is what happens in the future when Apple acquiesces to the Chinese government (or other authoritarian states) and starts handing over user data that contains anti-regime images or messages.

We already know that capitalists don’t give a **** about people’s lives, just continued short term profits.

That's my concern too. It might not even be Apple's doing - all it takes is someone creating an application to scan user data in the cloud.
 

Felis Leo

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How long before a couple of doting grandparents get hauled up on charges because Apple noticed a clip of "baby's first bath" at grandma's house.
See, I think it's great to try and leverage technology to catch these monsters, but my faith in Apple to do it properly is not very strong.
They will screw up big time and refuse all accountability for their mistakes, which will be legion.

Just like Facebook is currently doing.

That was my first thought. Anything in which children are either naked or at least are not fully clothed is fair game.

Because if they falsely report some innocent person photographing their children's/grandchildren's precious moments as some kind of child pornographer, I think the lawsuits against them will be legion and well-deserved.
 

PeteEU

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That's my concern too. It might not even be Apple's doing - all it takes is someone creating an application to scan user data in the cloud.
That already exists. It is getting access to the cloud that can be the problem and decrypting the information.

However, in this case the "snooping" is not in the cloud but on the device that you own. And if they can snoop one place, then they can snoop everywhere.

This whole tale is more disturbing the more I read about it and think about it.

First off Apple is designing the OS to snoop a specific area of your phone... or so they claim. The phone will analyze your photos before they upload to the iCloud.

Secondly, once the picture is flagged as "problematic", it is actually uploaded to iCloud and then a person at Apple HQ will decrypt the picture... something Apple has said over and over they could not do. If the picture is kiddie porn, then Apple supposedly will alert the FBI.

Now my question is... why on earth would they use your property to scan the files, and not wait till it is uploaded to iCloud and use vast server farms with far more power to do the job? My first thought, oh yea they dont want to be fingered in a pedo ring, until you realize that to actually confirm the kiddie porn, they have to upload it to iCloud and let a human look at it. So that argument is out of the window.

So why on earth do it on the device? They are basically doing something that, they have for the last 5+ years claimed was impossible and they would never do it because it is against their basic privacy bullshit.

My only conclusion is that either this code is designed for more than they claim, or they already have the code on the phones and needed an excuse to reveal it before someone else did.

And their claim that it only works if iCloud is active on the iPhone, which it is for 90+% of all iPhones because most iPhone users dont understand or know how to deactivate that piece of malware from Apple. ... well that claim is utter bullshit. Why on earth create such a complicated code if it is only going to look for kiddie porn? Hell no.

It makes zero sense in doing this on the phone.

Oh and no one is talking about Mac to iCloud.. why on earth aint that being scanned as well, as I would wager that most kiddie porn is on Macs/PC and not on phones.. or maybe the code is already in MacOS?
 

Luce

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I automatically assume that Apple has bad motives, no matter what the issue is.
 

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How long before a couple of doting grandparents get hauled up on charges because Apple noticed a clip of "baby's first bath" at grandma's house.
See, I think it's great to try and leverage technology to catch these monsters, but my faith in Apple to do it properly is not very strong.
They will screw up big time and refuse all accountability for their mistakes, which will be legion.

Just like Facebook is currently doing.
I think there is an unsubtle chasm between child's first bath and a child that's covered in bruises, undernourished, and...worse.
 

Cardinal

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I automatically assume that Apple has bad motives, no matter what the issue is.
There's plenty to crap on Apple for, but when it comes to privacy they're basically the only act in town when it comes to privacy.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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I think there is an unsubtle chasm between child's first bath and a child that's covered in bruises, undernourished, and...worse.

There's also some of that overlap from child abuse which you just referenced above and child MOLESTATION, some of which only leaves INTERNAL damage.
My issue is with some unaccountable corporate monolith taking charge of deciding BY ALGORITHM what is or is not child molesting.
We're basically allowing Apple, or any other phone mfr, to become Omni Consumer Products.

The_Old_Man.jpg
Ed209.jpg
 

JMB802

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If you don't think that Apple already has this kind of access or technology you are unbelievably naive.

I did some similar work for FB, flagged content is eventually reviewed by competent humans but it takes a few steps.
 
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OrphanSlug

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Not sure why this is even news worthy, it is called Terms and Conditions and anyone using iCloud should know better than to expect illegal content to be hidden from law enforcement.
 

AGENT J

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No issues with this. if a person doesnt like the TOS of the could dont use it.

I choose not to use any cloud service random data storage for this very reason. I want control of my stuff so I keep it. 🤷‍♂️
 

Cardinal

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There's also some of that overlap from child abuse which you just referenced above and child MOLESTATION, some of which only leaves INTERNAL damage.
My issue is with some unaccountable corporate monolith taking charge of deciding BY ALGORITHM what is or is not child molesting.
We're basically allowing Apple, or any other phone mfr, to become Omni Consumer Products.

The_Old_Man.jpg
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Touche.

"Dick...I'm very dissapointed."
 

exoplanet

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My first take is that at the moment this is a private issue and not a government issue. This is just good stewardship and basic accountability on Apple's part at the moment.

If you're worried about slippery slopes and government snooping, my guess is there are probably already secret government back doors we don't know about. I shudder to think what the government has come up with since Snowden blew the lid on things.
 
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