Apple - wealthiest tax evader on earth

[Paschendale]

They aren't tax evaders. They are tax avoiders. There's a significant difference. We should not be blaming companies for taking advantage of the laws as they are written. We should be blaming the people who write the laws.

Why do you insist that all the responsibility lies with those taking the bribes, instead of those paying them? Because that's what all this is. We have a system where politicians have to accept lots of money from private interests in order to win elections, and so we not only allow but encourage rampant bribery in our system. That's not going to change until you change the rules so they can't hand out bribes. But just complaining about one side of the equation without dealing with the underlying problem does nothing.

Apple paid politicians to write favorable tax rules for them. The politicians that wouldn't do that lost the elections because they didn't have the financial backing. What are you planning to do, just admonish the winners to behave more ethically? They'll lose their reelection if they do. You have to do so something about the private money in elections if you want to see anything but corruption. "Blaming the people who write them" accomplishes nothing. Blame accomplishes nothing. Save your indignation and fight to get the money out of elections.

The U.S. government makes the rules. Complaining that players are succeeding at the game in ways government couldn't envision seems silly. If they can't pass legislation to prevent tax evasion, that's government's fault, not private players. If government can't regulate, how in the world do some leftists even conceive of the notion they could not only regulate, but also be full participants and be effective at it?

That's just the point. It's not like this by accident. It's like this on purpose. Because we allow private interests and private money to decide our elections. Buying members of congress is easy. They know that the system is set up so that they have to sell their allegiance to private interests in order to win. So long as it stays that way, the people buying congress will continue to be the primary beneficiaries of our lawmakers while the rest of us twist in the wind.

 

[MaggieD]

Why do you insist that all the responsibility lies with those taking the bribes, instead of those paying them? Because that's what all this is. We have a system where politicians have to accept lots of money from private interests in order to win elections, and so we not only allow but encourage rampant bribery in our system. That's not going to change until you change the rules so they can't hand out bribes. But just complaining about one side of the equation without dealing with the underlying problem does nothing.

Apple paid politicians to write favorable tax rules for them. The politicians that wouldn't do that lost the elections because they didn't have the financial backing. What are you planning to do, just admonish the winners to behave more ethically? They'll lose their reelection if they do. You have to do so something about the private money in elections if you want to see anything but corruption. "Blaming the people who write them" accomplishes nothing. Blame accomplishes nothing. Save your indignation and fight to get the money out of elections.

I have no indignation; only resignation. The American people are sheep. They vote their own self-interest, or they don't vote at all. It is impossible to elect politicians who will do anything more than try to assure their own re-election from the time they're sworn in. Can't be done.

Talk about term limits? Which I see as a start toward the people taking back Congress, and one gets nothing but talk about how stupid THAT would be. Can't even get a consensus there.

Politicians will never agree to take the promise of donations out of the equation. Never-ever. The happily peddle their influence just like the whores they are.

 

[austrianecon]

This is incorrect. You can pay taxes and evade them at the same time. If I would normally owe $500, but I evade in a way to only pay $100, I have paid taxes and evade them at the same time.



Incorrect again. Apple admitted that their European operations are actually being run out of the US. They merely source the income to Ireland. And since they declared in Ireland they're not doing any actual sales, the Irish government gives them a pass on income being sourced there. Effectively, Apple is running its European operations out of America but pays no taxes. They aren't the only ones to do this, but they're in the headlines.

Look up the words avoidance and evade.. then come talk as there is a HUGE difference.

 

[Slyhunter]

Elections has consequences. If Romney had won he would've initiated a tax holiday and Apple would be spending those billions, generating jobs, in America.

 

[obvious Child]

Look up the words avoidance and evade.. then come talk as there is a HUGE difference.

You need to look up the words. People who had the UBS accounts hiding income that still paid on some of their income were evading taxes at the same time paying some of them.

Do not lecture me on taxes. You will lose.

The notion that to be evading taxes you have to pay zero is extremely wrong.

Guy 1 pays taxes on his regular job. He doesn't pay taxes on his moonlighting. He has paid taxes and evaded at the same time.

Learn the difference between evade and avoid. You do not understand them.

 

[austrianecon]

You need to look up the words. People who had the UBS accounts hiding income that still paid on some of their income were evading taxes at the same time paying some of them.

Actually, let me show you where you are wrong since you seem to busy to actually look up the difference. Those who stashed money in UBS accounts were evading taxes. I have no disagreement with that assessment as it's Illegal.

Do not lecture me on taxes. You will lose.

I am not lecturing you, I am correcting you. There is a difference, sorta like avoidance and evasion.

The notion that to be evading taxes you have to pay zero is extremely wrong.

I said from the start.. "misrepresenting the true state of their affairs to the tax authorities to reduce their tax liability and includes dishonest tax reporting, such as declaring less income, profits or gains than the amounts actually earned, or overstating deductions" is tax evasion and that's the legal definition. Apple clearly reports it's earnings correctly every year. It reports all incomes to the respective Governments involved. So much so IRS, SEC and DoJ have accepted their filings every year. If they were guilty of your false accusation Apple would be in a world of trouble.

Guy 1 pays taxes on his regular job. He doesn't pay taxes on his moonlighting. He has paid taxes and evaded at the same time.

That's a failure to report income. Apple doesn't fail to report income.

Learn the difference between evade and avoid. You do not understand them.

In your examples people failed to report income and it takes dumb luck or stupidity by them that gets them caught. While Apple has always reported 100% of their income. So much so you actually have access to information to make a charge against Apple. And that Obvious Child is the difference between evasion and avoidance.

So to clear this up for you. Evasion is illegal, Apple is doing nothing illegal, but rather doing what is standard practice by all.. avoidance aka mitigation.

 

[obvious Child]

Actually, let me show you where you are wrong since you seem to busy to actually look up the difference. Those who stashed money in UBS accounts were evading taxes. I have no disagreement with that assessment as it's Illegal.

Which blows your argument apart that evading only means you paid zero.

I am not lecturing you, I am correcting you. There is a difference, sorta like avoidance and evasion.

You're still wrong. You claimed that evading was only if you paid no taxes. That is wrong. You can pay taxes and still evade. I gave perfect examples of this.

I said from the start.. "misrepresenting the true state of their affairs to the tax authorities to reduce their tax liability and includes dishonest tax reporting, such as declaring less income, profits or gains than the amounts actually earned, or overstating deductions" is tax evasion and that's the legal definition. Apple clearly reports it's earnings correctly every year. It reports all incomes to the respective Governments involved. So much so IRS, SEC and DoJ have accepted their filings every year. If they were guilty of your false accusation Apple would be in a world of trouble.

There is where you go wrong again. Apple did not state the true affairs of to the tax authorities as they are improperly declaring that their Irish subsidy is handling the European operations, where by their own admission outside of their returns that their US operations are in fact handling such operations.

That's a failure to report income. Apple doesn't fail to report income.

Except that Apple improperly reported where the income is actually being earned out of. It's pretty clear you aren't informed about how allocations are done based on a number of allocating factors.

So to clear this up for you. Evasion is illegal, Apple is doing nothing illegal, but rather doing what is standard practice by all.. avoidance aka mitigation.

See above. You're still wrong.

 

[PeteEU]

Elections has consequences. If Romney had won he would've initiated a tax holiday and Apple would be spending those billions, generating jobs, in America.

Not likely.. they would have not take up the 2nd biggest loan in history (only beaten 2 days ago by Verizon), to pay their ****ing shareholders.

Also nothing is preventing Apple from investing that money anywhere in the world.. and yet they dont... wonder why?

 

[Jerry]

Of course the IRS doesn't think it is since their mission of bleeding you dry conflicts with anything that prevents them from bleeding you dry.

Could a moderator please attach a poll to this thtead asking how many participants are using an Apple product to post here?