Apparently the Washington Post thinks that injured troops are a joke.

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Like I said, you're in good company. I'm sure lots of Muslims would agree with you. Maybe you can cut a deal with them: They'll slam this guy's balls with a sledgehammer, if you blow up Jyllands-Posten and/or kill Salman Rushdie.

You are such an idiot, I can't believe I once thought you were one of the more intelligent conservatives on this forum.

O.K. so this cartoonist has the freedom of speech to make light of the sacrifices made by our service men but if I use my freedom of speech to state my disapproval for this ****ing hack then I'm somehow akin to Muslim extremists? Freedom of speech is a two way street pal.

 

[Mikkel]

So you think an anti-war cartoon is neither making light of a situation nor political propoganda in the traditional sense of the term?

That's exactly what it is doing and what it is there is no other way of defining it.

It is opinionated, satirical commentary.

Opinion does not equal propaganda, and
satirical does not equal light hearted.

You are making mountains out of molehills, my friend.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

I really don't give a ****. It doesn't offend me in the least.

Then you have no class.

I have this crazy idea that the press should be free. If you disagree, you're in good company with millions of Muslims around the world. They're burning Danish and Norweigian flags in Pakistan now, to protest freedom of the press; maybe you can take some American flags and join in the fun.

Hmmm, Titus complains that a tasteless cartoon is published in a newspaper, and you respond with saying that they have every freedom to be as tasteless as they want, and then go on to say in essence that he should shut up. Thus you're denying him to freedom to speak even as you pretend to defend that freedom for others you agree with.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It is opinionated, satirical commentary.

Opinion does not equal propaganda, and
satirical does not equal light hearted.

You are making mountains out of molehills, my friend.

Propaganda -

1. publicity to promote something: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

This is an anti-war cartoon which definately falls in the line of propaganda and it is intended to amuse the reader thus it is making light of the situation.

 

[Deegan]

It is opinionated, satirical commentary.

Opinion does not equal propaganda, and
satirical does not equal light hearted.

You are making mountains out of molehills, my friend.

As if opinions don't mean anything, or that they don't influence people?

You may be intellectually strong enough to read between the lines, but many are easily swayed, and we must address opinions with the weight that they indeed carry. Again, you are wrong that opinions can not be propaganda, they have been, and will continue to be, that is a fact.

 

[Kandahar]

O.K. so this cartoonist has the freedom of speech to make light of the sacrifices made by our service men but if I use my freedom of speech to state my disapproval for this ****ing hack then I'm somehow akin to Muslim extremists? Freedom of speech is a two way street pal.

Yes, you're like Muslim extremists. Like them, you got a hair up your ass about a cartoon that may or may not have been in bad taste. Like them, you're "stating your disapproval for this ****ing hack." Like them, you have villified the cartoonist for expressing his opinion. Hell, you even called for violence like them (although I assume that you weren't serious).

Pull the stick out of your ass and get on with your life. This cartoon is no more offensive than what you can watch on Comedy Central.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I think this is an important distinction

You're joking right?

Propaganda -
1. publicity to promote something: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


How in the hell is an anti-war cartoon anything but propaganda????

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yes, you're like Muslim extremists. Like them, you got a hair up your ass about a cartoon that may or may not have been in bad taste. Like them, you're "stating your disapproval for this ****ing hack." Like them, you have villified the cartoonist for expressing his opinion. Hell, you even called for violence like them (although I assume that you weren't serious).

Pull the stick out of your ass and get on with your life. This cartoon is no more offensive than what you can watch on Comedy Central.

I don't give two sh!ts about this guy being anti-war I wouldn't have given it a second thought, you're skirting the issue here, it is not this mans opinion that I find offensive it's the way that he expresses it. Making light of injured soldiers is not civil discourse it's a sickening display of what the left in this country is all about.

 

[Donkey1499]

This cartoon IS foul and disgusting. The illustrator should receive a swift kick to the balls. But instead of others showing anger towards such a disgusting 'cartoon', they instead attack Trajan... why? This same thing happened with OJ. OJ was supposed to be on trial, but instead, Johnnie Cochran used the "Chewbacca Defense" and put the LAPD on trial. Nice way to spin things guys.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

lol, so then every cartoon that expresses anything but indifference or confusion is propaganda, so thus calling it propaganda is a pointless distinction to make that is clearly just used to make the cartoon seem worse than it is.
A lot of groups get offended by a lot of things, and almost 100% of the time it's just pointless whining from people who lack senses of humor. It's the same type of people that protested the song "Cop Killer" and started the PMRC and the PTC.

This is not a cartoon found in the comic section this is a political cartoon found in the editorial section, if political cartoons don't fall under the classification of political propoganda then what does?

 

[Deegan]

lol, so then every cartoon that expresses anything but indifference or confusion is propaganda, so thus calling it propaganda is a pointless distinction to make that is clearly just used to make the cartoon seem worse than it is.
A lot of groups get offended by a lot of things, and almost 100% of the time it's just pointless whining from people who lack senses of humor. It's the same type of people that protested the song "Cop Killer" and started the PMRC and the PTC.

You are all saying to this man, your opinion means little, while defending the others right to one. This makes little sense to me, and seems very intolerant, and just plain wrong. I have not witnessed a gang tackle like this one in a great while here, it's not very becoming, I'll tell you that!

 

[Kandahar]

I don't give two sh!ts about this guy being anti-war I wouldn't have given it a second thought, you're skirting the issue here, it is not this mans opinion that I find offensive it's the way that he expresses it. Making light of injured soldiers is not civil discourse it's a sickening display of what the left in this country is all about.

If you had found this cartoon on your own (without knowing that some military guys had already condemned it), would you have even given it a second thought? No. I think you're feigning offense to show that you're pro-military.

The cartoonist did nothing wrong. It's not even that offensive, and you know it. And even if it was offensive, eat it. You didn't have to read the Washington Post, did you?

 

[Mikkel]

Propaganda -

1. publicity to promote something: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

This is an anti-war cartoon which definately falls in the line of propaganda and it is intended to amuse the reader thus it is making light of the situation.

"publicity to promote something: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause"

This is the opinion of ONE MAN. Remember that. Secondly, I don't think anyone really found this cartoon humorous. Personally I found it terrifying, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it for its message. It's not MEANT to be funny like Calvin and Hobbes or Foxtrot. YOU obviously didn't find it funny, and just because it's a cartoon you automatically assume that we do.

You're crossing genres in ways that make little sense.

"You may be intellectually strong enough to read between the lines, but many are easily swayed, and we must address opinions with the weight that they indeed carry. Again, you are wrong that opinions can not be propaganda, they have been, and will continue to be, that is a fact."

Finally, a cohesive argument. However, even if opinions go against the norm, or become detrimental to our society, blocking them out solves very little. It is all of your (oir Trajan's) right to disagree with Tom's opinion, but not at all to block it out (just as I cannot stop you from arguing against him).

If every opinion becomes some sort of propaganda, then everything is propaganda and the word loses all meaning. Most understandings of propaganda include some sort of governmental will forcing its opinion upon the people, usually through censorship. In a country where we have a free press, I find the argument that a political cartoon qualifies as 'propaganda' is a flimsy propsition.

I would like to continue this discussion further, but unfortunately, I have to go to class. Some other time, maybe.

 

[Donkey1499]

You are all saying to this man, your opinion means little, while defend the others right to one. This makes little sense to me, and seems very intolerant, and just plain wrong. I have not witnessed a gang tackle like this one in a great while here, it's not very becoming, I'll tell you that!

The libs on here just don't like Trajan because he produces something called: FACTS. So they dodge the real issue and attack Trajan. And it's not right.

 

[aquapub]

I think most mainstream people on both sides of the aisle would agree that this cartoon is tasteless as hell. And it is clearly trying to generate negative sentiment against this war at the expense of the troops liberals keep telling us they support.

If that cartoon isn't pushing an agenda at the expense of the troops, I suppose you would also say that this one isn't pushing an agenda at the expense of Democrats, right?

http://www.ucomics.com/glennmccoy/2006/01/23/

Give me a break. Level with yourselves. You know damn well the cartoon we are debating here is just another troop-smearing, partisan liberal attack.

 

[Deegan]

"publicity to promote something: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause"

This is the opinion of ONE MAN. Remember that. Secondly, I don't think anyone really found this cartoon humorous. Personally I found it terrifying, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it for its message. It's not MEANT to be funny like Calvin and Hobbes or Foxtrot. YOU obviously didn't find it funny, and just because it's a cartoon you automatically assume that we do.

You're crossing genres in ways that make little sense.

"You may be intellectually strong enough to read between the lines, but many are easily swayed, and we must address opinions with the weight that they indeed carry. Again, you are wrong that opinions can not be propaganda, they have been, and will continue to be, that is a fact."

Finally, a cohesive argument. However, even if opinions go against the norm, or become detrimental to our society, blocking them out solves very little. It is all of your (oir Trajan's) right to disagree with Tom's opinion, but not at all to block it out (just as I cannot stop you from arguing against him).

If every opinion becomes some sort of propaganda, then everything is propaganda and the word loses all meaning. Most understandings of propaganda include some sort of governmental will forcing its opinion upon the people, usually through censorship. In a country where we have a free press, I find the argument that a political cartoon qualifies as 'propaganda' is a flimsy propsition.

I would like to continue this discussion further, but unfortunately, I have to go to class. Some other time, maybe.

He speaks for an org. it's called THE WASHINGTON POST!

Traj has won this argument, hands down!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

If you had found this cartoon on your own (without knowing that some military guys had already condemned it), would you have even given it a second thought? No. I think you're feigning offense to show that you're pro-military.

The cartoonist did nothing wrong. It's not even that offensive, and you know it. And even if it was offensive, eat it. You didn't have to read the Washington Post, did you?

So you're a mind reader now huh?

I love the fact that you trout the first amendment when you defend this guy, but when someone claims their disgust for such a sickening piece of propaganda you think that they should just shut the fuc/k up.

Pretty hypocritical of you.

 

[Mikkel]

The libs on here just don't like Trajan because he produces something called: FACTS. So they dodge the real issue and attack Trajan. And it's not right.

Sorry to butt in again, but I can't let this one slide. Please, if you would, list some of the 'facts' that trajan has provided for us, aside from the fact that said cartoon exists.

The only stuff I've been reading is opinion and rhetoric (on both sides). Don't pull out the 'F' card unless you really mean it.

 

[Donkey1499]

If you had found this cartoon on your own (without knowing that some military guys had already condemned it), would you have even given it a second thought? No. I think you're feigning offense to show that you're pro-military.

The cartoonist did nothing wrong. It's not even that offensive, and you know it. And even if it was offensive, eat it. You didn't have to read the Washington Post, did you?

Same goes with atheists who don't respect Christmas. If you don't like it, too bad. Don't look.

And the 'cartoon' is offensive. Trajan is just voicing his opinion and all you leftists can do is bash him.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The libs on here just don't like Trajan because he produces something called: FACTS. So they dodge the real issue and attack Trajan. And it's not right.

Damn right I should file suit for defamation of character and violation of my first amendment rights, does anyone have the number for the A.C.L.U.??? :lol:

 

[Donkey1499]

Sorry to butt in again, but I can't let this one slide. Please, if you would, list some of the 'facts' that trajan has provided for us, aside from the fact that said cartoon exists.

The only stuff I've been reading is opinion and rhetoric (on both sides). Don't pull out the 'F' card unless you really mean it.

I meant that he puts facts in other threads, where he is also attacked for said FACTS.

 

[Deegan]

lol, dude, I'm just pointing out that this is a non-issue, and there is a clear purpose behind complaining about it, and that is distracting people from important issues. I actually heard news pieces on this crap on CNN and Faux News. The day that this **** is actually the most aggregious thing that happened in that day is the day when we've reached a eutopian status as a society.
I'm fine with Trajan pretending that this is at all important, but I also support my right to point out exactly what this is, and that is a distraction. It is a distraction because you guys have been longing for an issue to come that republicans can look anything other than cartoonishly evil monsters. This isn't it though. I'd say you'd have a better shot complaining about those "human animal hybrids" that Bush warned us about!

Sure, there are more important things, but this is important to this man, let him speak his mind, not be so dismissive. Since when did we gage the seriousness of issues here, before allowing them to be posted?

Just my observation here, I felt the man was attacked right out of the gate, but I am sure he can handle it, he handed you all your behinds in this thread.

 

[Mikkel]

He speaks for an org. it's called THE WASHINGTON POST!

Traj has won this argument, hands down!

OH MY GOD! I am going to miss my class because of you guys, but I just have to tell you that this is the weakest argument ever made!

Newspapers do NOT censor their editorial or cartooning sections. He does NOT represent the paper. Additionally, you did not address the inconsistencies with both your argument AND trajan's (aside from this one) that I provided in my last post.

Traj has done no such thing.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

lol, dude, I'm just pointing out that this is a non-issue, and there is a clear purpose behind complaining about it, and that is distracting people from important issues. I actually heard news pieces on this crap on CNN and Faux News. The day that this **** is actually the most aggregious thing that happened in that day is the day when we've reached a eutopian status as a society.
I'm fine with Trajan pretending that this is at all important, but I also support my right to point out exactly what this is, and that is a distraction. It is a distraction because you guys have been longing for an issue to come that republicans can look anything other than cartoonishly evil monsters. This isn't it though. I'd say you'd have a better shot complaining about those "human animal hybrids" that Bush warned us about!

Dr. Monroe is an abomination and his crimes against nature are a serious threat to national security and they must be stopped before it's to late!!!

Anyways this is not a distraction it is hard evidence that not only does the liberal media have an agenda but they have no respect for our soldiers sacrifices.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It's really sad that I have to honestly ask you this question, but I do. Have you ever read a newspaper? There are 6-8 of these in just about every newspaper. Even student newsletters have 1 or 2. There are so many of them, and according to your definition calling this one propaganda doesn't seperate this one from any of the others. They're political cartoons because they satire what's going on in politics. Thus they mock someone, a group of people, or a certain thing we're doing, not doing, plannning on doing, or planning on not doing as a nation. Thus it's obvious that, to mock something, what you're saying will undoubtedly be interpreted as in opposition to what you're mocking. It's a frickin cartoon, and you calling it propaganda is a very clear indication of the strength (or lack thereof) of your argument.

All political cartoons are a form of political propaganda, I don't see any other way of defining them.