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Apparently, anti-abortion laws do not reduce abortions.

I'm not anti-abortion but Devil's Advocate is my favorite game (it was an Ok movie to).
So.
Anti-Murder laws have not reduced murders.
Anti-Drug laws have not reduced drug use.

As far as my true feelings. I kind of hope that most times, abortions are a last resort (the pill didn't work, the depot shot didn't work, the condom didn't work). I'm not involved with them so I don't know. But that's just an opinion/hope.
 
That is because what the left characterizes as anti-abortion laws aren't really anti-abortion laws. They are simply common sense things that should be in place. Having a woman see the ultrasound, is that really so bad? Why hide it from her? Requiring the doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital? That's bad, how?
 
Ntharotep said:
I'm not anti-abortion but Devil's Advocate is my favorite game (it was an Ok movie to).
So.
Anti-Murder laws have not reduced murders.
Anti-Drug laws have not reduced drug use.

As far as my true feelings. I kind of hope that most times, abortions are a last resort (the pill didn't work, the depot shot didn't work, the condom didn't work). I'm not involved with them so I don't know. But that's just an opinion/hope.
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I don't really like the idea of an abortion, either. But I like less the idea of forcing my morality in between a woman and her doctor, and telling someone what they can and can't do with their own body.
 
TheGoverness said:
I don't really like the idea of an abortion, either. But I like less the idea of forcing my morality in between a woman and her doctor, and telling someone what they can and can't do with their own body.
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I agree that if a woman wants an abortion, it's her body. Do you also agree that its the woman's responsibility to make sure she doesn't get pregnant? It is her body, after all.
 
Southern Dad said:
I agree that if a woman wants an abortion, it's her body. Do you also agree that its the woman's responsibility to make sure she doesn't get pregnant? It is her body, after all.
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Yes it is their responsibility, which is why I recommend women to engage in safe-sex, or if not, at least take a morning after pill after having unprotected sex. That way they won't have to go through the whole abortion process to begin with.
 
Southern Dad said:
I agree that if a woman wants an abortion, it's her body. Do you also agree that its the woman's responsibility to make sure she doesn't get pregnant? It is her body, after all.
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I wholeheartedly agree that it is her responsibility to try to make sure that she does not get pregnant.

That is why I advocate for improvements in quality, accessibility and availability of long term birth control options. Currently the women who could uses these methods the most are frequently financially unable to obtain these methods. Too rich for Medicaid too poor for insurance.

I also think that any man who is not ready to be a dad (emotionally and/or financially)should be using condoms no matter what birth control the woman is using.

That being said, if a woman finds herself pregnant and does not wish to be pregnant, she should be allowed to choose whether to stay pregnant or not.
 
joG said:
This line of argument was unknown to you?
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Of course not. However, this is not a 'line of argument'. This is a study that looks at results, and has hard data to back up the claims. There is a difference between a line of argument, and having actual hard data to back up an argument.
 
year2late said:
I wholeheartedly agree that it is her responsibility to try to make sure that she does not get pregnant.

That is why I advocate for improvements in quality, accessibility and availability of long term birth control options. Currently the women who could uses these methods the most are frequently financially unable to obtain these methods. Too rich for Medicaid too poor for insurance.

I also think that any man who is not ready to be a dad (emotionally and/or financially)should be using condoms no matter what birth control the woman is using.

That being said, if a woman finds herself pregnant and does not wish to be pregnant, she should be allowed to choose whether to stay pregnant or not.
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It's her body... He doesn't have a say if she gets an abortion...
 
Southern Dad said:
That is because what the left characterizes as anti-abortion laws aren't really anti-abortion laws. They are simply common sense things that should be in place. Having a woman see the ultrasound, is that really so bad? Why hide it from her? Requiring the doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital? That's bad, how?
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They shouldn't be mandated by govt. If a woman wants to see the u/s, she should be able to but she should not be forced to see it.

Admitting privileges are not needed. If a woman has complications from the abortion, she's going to go to the ER and get treated there. The doctor who did the abortion having admitting privileges is not going to make a difference in the care she receives.

Besides, there are too many hospitals that won't give admitting privileges to doctors who do abortion. Do you think they should be mandated by force of law to give them?
 
Southern Dad said:
It's her body... He doesn't have a say if she gets an abortion...
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And?

His say to try not to get her pregnant.

If he does not want to be in the position of having her make the choice for abortion...he should wear a condom each and every time....even if she is on any birth control.

Other than that, yes, it is her body, her choice...

As a man.....does a woman have the say in your health related decisions?
 
Scrabaholic said:
They shouldn't be mandated by govt. If a woman wants to see the u/s, she should be able to but she should not be forced to see it.

Admitting privileges are not needed. If a woman has complications from the abortion, she's going to go to the ER and get treated there. The doctor who did the abortion having admitting privileges is not going to make a difference in the care she receives.

Besides, there are too many hospitals that won't give admitting privileges to doctors who do abortion. Do you think they should be mandated by force of law to give them?
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Exactly. Can you imagine the number of medical procedures with similar safety profiles would have to be done in similar situations? Frequently doctors in urgent care clinics have no admitting privileges to full service hospitals.

If it REALLY was about safety - they would insist on all procedures with similar safety profiles have the same requirement.

The woman she be told the risks of complications and make the decision herself whether or not to have the procedure elsewhere.
 
Scrabaholic said:
They shouldn't be mandated by govt. If a woman wants to see the u/s, she should be able to but she should not be forced to see it.

Admitting privileges are not needed. If a woman has complications from the abortion, she's going to go to the ER and get treated there. The doctor who did the abortion having admitting privileges is not going to make a difference in the care she receives.

Besides, there are too many hospitals that won't give admitting privileges to doctors who do abortion. Do you think they should be mandated by force of law to give them?
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Abortion is the snuffing out of a beating heart. A life. It shouldn't be easy. I am pro-Abortion. Build lots of those abortion mills but I don't want to pay for it.
 
Southern Dad said:
Abortion is the snuffing out of a beating heart. A life. It shouldn't be easy. I am pro-Abortion. Build lots of those abortion mills but I don't want to pay for it.
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What does this have to do with my post?????
 
Scrabaholic said:
What does this have to do with my post?????
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You don't think the woman should be shown the ultrasound. I think she should see it. It's a big decision. Let's face it, abortions are to kill the unborn tricycle motor inside of an irresponsible woman. They have already proven they make bad decisions.
 
shagg said:
Birth control also works better than abstinence. I will never understand the opposition to birth control, apart from being rooted in old taboos.
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Actually it doesn't. If your abstinent then you won't get pregnant, birth control has low, but non-zero, probabilities associated with it.

Abstinence only education doesn't work because people don't actually practice abstinence. Which is why it's best to teach the use of birth control. But fundamentally speaking, abstinence does work better than birth control.

Anyway, the good news is that through proper education and practices, we can reduce the abortion rate.
 
Southern Dad said:
You don't think the woman should be shown the ultrasound. I think she should see it. It's a big decision. Let's face it, abortions are to kill the unborn tricycle motor inside of an irresponsible woman. They have already proven they make bad decisions.
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I never said they shouldn't be shown the u/s. I said they shouldn't be FORCED to see it. And no, they have not proven they make bad decisions or that they are irresponsible.
 
Ikari said:
Actually it doesn't. If your abstinent then you won't get pregnant, birth control has low, but non-zero, probabilities associated with it.

Abstinence only education doesn't work because people don't actually practice abstinence. Which is why it's best to teach the use of birth control. But fundamentally speaking, abstinence does work better than birth control.

Anyway, the good news is that through proper education and practices, we can reduce the abortion rate.
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And a recent report says exactly what you've just said. According to the report National Teen Birth Rates at an all time low. I'm betting that we'd find a similar type of report for women above their teenage years.

From 2006 to 2014, the teen birth rate declined 41 percent. In 2014, there were 24.2 births for every 1,000 adolescent females — the lowest rate ever recorded.

National Teen Birth Rate Plummets To All-Time Low
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Scrabaholic said:
I never said they shouldn't be shown the u/s. I said they shouldn't be FORCED to see it. And no, they have not proven they make bad decisions or that they are irresponsible.
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Why? You don't want to make sure the woman has seen what she is about to snuff out. I think she should sign it. And yes, they have clearly shown that they are irresponsible and make bad decisions. That's why they are knocked up.
 
Southern Dad said:
Why? You don't want to make sure the woman has seen what she is about to snuff out. I think she should sign it. And yes, they have clearly shown that they are irresponsible and make bad decisions. That's why they are knocked up.
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Because I believe in personal freedom and I do not believe in the govt. dictating to doctors how to practice medicine.

There are many women with unwanted pregnancies who were not irresponsible. Women who were raped and women who were using contraception (the latter being just over half of women who abort in the USA). You seem to want them to be irresponsible and birth a child they cannot or will not care for.
 
Southern Dad said:
Why? You don't want to make sure the woman has seen what she is about to snuff out. I think she should sign it. And yes, they have clearly shown that they are irresponsible and make bad decisions. That's why they are knocked up.
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If they are irresponsible and make bad decisions, then the last thing they need to be doing is raising children.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Because I believe in personal freedom and I do not believe in the govt. dictating to doctors how to practice medicine.

There are many women with unwanted pregnancies who were not irresponsible. Women who were raped and women who were using contraception (the latter being just over half of women who abort in the USA). You seem to want them to be irresponsible and birth a child they cannot or will not care for.
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No, there are not many women with unwanted pregnancies who were not irresponsible. Very few abortions are from rape. That's a small percentage and you know it. The majority of abortions are just some woman wanting that life inside of her sucked out because she doesn't want to be a mommy. And I am pro-abortion. I want more abortion mills built, not less. But I don't want them taxpayer funded.
 
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