Apart from Bismarck and Hitler, which names of German politicians do you know?

[Rumpel]

7 out of 11 have voted for him here.

Konrad Adenauer​

 

[Juin]

Well worth watching. I have just watched it now.

I looked up the list of Chancellors to find which one was the one I first became aware of after graduating from toddler. It was Helmud Schmidt

On looking at the list of W German Chancellors since the beginning, to my surprise there are some I am totally ignorant of. I always aware of Konrad Adenauer as Chancellor, even though it was before I paid attention to such things

I never heard of:

Ludwig Erhard
Kurt Georg Kiesinger


I am still trying to wrap my head around the set up in East Germany. It appears they did not call the chief executive officer Chancellor. There appears to have been a Secretary of the Communist Party and a Head of State. Not sure how that worked. Eitherways the only Walter Ulbricht and Erick Honneker

 

[Rumpel]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the set up in East Germany. It appears they did not call the chief executive officer Chancellor.

They had a funny long name for them: Staatsratvorsitzender = Staats-Rat-Vorsitzender.

 

[Evilroddy]

As you know - polls take only a list of ten.
And with "others" - that makes only 9 names.
So a choice has to be made.
And the choice is mine - speaketh the Lord.

Rumpel:

Oh Lord, this time it's a German farmer rather than an Aramaic fisherman with a god-complex! When will this cycle ever end? We need a good Gotterdämmerung to end this hubris.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Allan]

Willy Brandt is probably best known in the west for Kniefall von Warschau.

 

[Rumpel]

Rumpel:

We need a good Gotterdämmerung to end this hubris.

I already see a new age dawning!

 

[Rumpel]

Willy Brandt is probably best known in the west for Kniefall von Warschau.

View attachment 67388369

So it is.
And generally known for his Ost-Politik = relationship with the East.

Adenauer made peace with the West - and Brandt made peace with the East.

 

[Rumpel]

Franco-German relations:​

Elysée Treaty - a sign of friendship​

The Treaty of Aachen, which Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron will be signing today in Aachen, builds on the 1963 Elysée Treaty, which marked the beginning of Franco-German friendship. It was a milestone in the process of European integration. The history of the two neighbours had hitherto been turbulent.

Elysée Treaty - a sign of friendship

The Treaty of Aachen, which Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron will be signing today in Aachen, builds on the 1963 Elysée Treaty, which marked the beginning of Franco-German friendship. It was a milestone in the process of European integration. The history of the two...

www.bundesregierung.de

That Elysée Treaty and the Franco-German friendship was the achievement of de Gaulle and Adenauer.
No easy job after centuries of war!

 

[Yes_Minister]

No recognition for Kaiser Wilhelm II, the idiot king of Germany during WWI?

 

[Lovebug]

Claus Philipp Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg? How many names does one need?
We were over there during the reign of Helmut Kohl.

 

[Lovebug]

No recognition for Kaiser Wilhelm II, the idiot king of Germany during WWI?

I thought that was Ludwig. Wasn't he the one who built all the castles? I mean, he had the peasants build them.

 

[Rumpel]

No recognition for Kaiser Wilhelm II, the idiot king of Germany during WWI?

No - no recognition.

 

[Rumpel]

Ludwig Erhard

Ludwig Erhard is regarded as "the Father of the Wirtschaftswunder"

 

[Yes_Minister]

I didn’t say it was. I said being anti-democratic is a good trait.

Something which Stalin ended up doing by other means. Poland didn’t exit the war any better.

You being Anti Democratic is no surprise, you the kind of person who thinks having to wear a mask at the Piggy Wiggly is oppression and wants the state to punish everyone you don't like.

That's the mindset of the people who supported the Nazis, that Germany was oppressed by cultural Marxism and international bankers and needed to fight back.

 

[Yes_Minister]

No - no recognition.

He is an important German figure, even if he is unimpressive.

 

[Rumpel]

@ Wirtschaftswunder

The Wirtschaftswunder (German: [ˈvɪʁtʃaftsˌvʊndɐ] (listen), "economic miracle"), also known as the Miracle on the Rhine, was the rapid reconstruction and development of the economies of Germany and Austria after World War II (adopting an ordoliberalism-based social market economy). The expression referring to this phenomenon was first used by The Times in 1950.[2]

Beginning with the replacement of the Reichsmark with the Deutsche Mark in 1948 as legal tender (the Schilling was similarly re-established in Austria), a lasting era of low inflation and rapid industrial growth was overseen by the government led by West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer and his Minister of Economics, Ludwig Erhard, who went down in history as the "father of the German economic miracle." In Austria, efficient labor practices led to a similar period of economic growth.

The era of economic growth raised Germany and Austria from total wartime devastation to developed nations in modern Europe. At the founding of the European Common Market in 1957 Germany's economic growth stood in contrast to the struggling conditions at the time in the United Kingdom.

Wirtschaftswunder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[armycowboy]

And which of those names are the most popular for you?

Merkel and Kohl.

 

[Court Jester]

I learned about Konrad Adenauer from this popular comedy record album in the early '60s

 

[Rumpel]

Merkel and Kohl.

That reminds me:

When Maggy Thatcher first mentioned "Germany and Herr Kohl" - it was understood as "Germany and her coal".

 

[Rumpel]

I learned about Konrad Adenauer from this popular comedy record album in the early '60s

Some anecdote:

When Konrad Adenauer was asked: "Who do you regard as the two most important persons on earth?" he answered:
"Ich kenne die = I know them".
This "ich kenne die" sounds exactly like "me and Kennedy".

 

[Rumpel]

I only know Willy Brandt from playing Twilight Struggle. And his scandal about appointing a communist spy. I couldn't tell you anything else about him.

More on Willy Brandt:

He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1971 for his efforts to strengthen cooperation in western Europe through the EEC and to achieve reconciliation between West Germany and the countries of Eastern Europe.[1] He was the first Social Democrat chancellor[2] since 1930.

Fleeing to Norway and then Sweden during the Nazi regime and working as a left-wing journalist, he took the name Willy Brandt as a pseudonym to avoid detection by Nazi agents, and then formally adopted the name in 1948. Brandt was originally considered one of the leaders of the right wing of the SPD, and earned initial fame as Governing Mayor of West Berlin. He served as the foreign minister and as the vice-chancellor in Kurt Georg Kiesinger's cabinet, and became chancellor in 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Brandt

 

[Jredbaron96]

Interesting piece of information. It appears history has been kind to Stauffenberg.

Yeah, when you actually read into him he appears a lot less glamorous.

Stauffenberg (while perhaps not a violent antisemite) had no issue with Germany's waging of violent, destructive wars of conquest or a militarized society centered around the subjugation of other people; he just didn't like *losing*, and had the sense to see that Hitler had played a big part in why Germany was losing.

 

[Rumpel]

Stauffenberg

Let me put it this way: He had his merits.
It took courage to do what he did.
Would you have had this courage?

He was not flawless.
But I am not sure whether he deserves to be thrown with dirt after dirt now.
If that makes some of you happy - I cannot hinder you.

But I will not take part in this Stauffenberg-bashing

 

[Rumpel]

Here is a little bit of Info about Stauffenberg:

Although Stauffenberg agreed with the Nazi Party's racist and nationalistic aspects and had supported the German colonization of Poland and made extremist remarks regarding Polish Jews,[15][16][17] he never became a member. During the German presidential election, 1932, he voiced support for Hitler:

Moreover, Stauffenberg remained a practicing Catholic. Stauffenberg vacillated between a strong dislike of Hitler's policies and a respect for what he perceived to be Hitler's military acumen. Stauffenberg became even more disassociated with the party after The Night of the Long Knives and Kristallnacht proved Hitler had no intentions to pursue justice.[19] On top of this, the growing systematic ill-treatment of Jews and suppression of religion had offended Stauffenberg's strong sense of Catholic morality and justice

More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_von_Stauffenberg

And let me say: "Those of you who are completely flawless, may throw the first stone."

 

[Rumpel]

@ Death of Stauffenberg

Stauffenberg was third in line to be executed, with Lieutenant von Haeften after. However, when it was Stauffenberg's turn, Lieutenant von Haeften placed himself between the firing squad and Stauffenberg, and received the bullets meant for Stauffenberg. When his turn came, Stauffenberg spoke his last words, "Es lebe das heilige Deutschland!" ("Long live our sacred Germany!"),[47][48] or, possibly, "Es lebe das geheime Deutschland!" ("Long live the secret Germany!"), in reference to Stefan George and the anti-Nazi circle.[48][49] Fromm ordered that the executed officers (his former co-conspirators) receive an immediate burial with military honours in the Alter St.-Matthäus-Kirchhof in Berlin's Schöneberg district. The next day, however, Stauffenberg's body was exhumed by the SS, stripped of his medals and insignia, and cremated.[50]

Another central figure in the plot was Stauffenberg's eldest brother, Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg. After his arrest in July 1944, Berthold while being interrogated by the Gestapo, claimed that: "He and his brother had basically approved of the racial principle of National Socialism, but considered it to be exaggerated and excessive."[51] On 10 August 1944, Berthold was tried before Judge-President Roland Freisler in the special "People's Court" (Volksgerichtshof). This court was established by Hitler for political offences. Berthold was one of eight conspirators executed by slow strangulation in Plötzensee Prison, Berlin, later that day. Before he was killed, Berthold was strangled and then revived multiple times.[52] The entire execution and multiple resuscitations were filmed for Hitler to view at his leisure.[52] More than 200 were condemned in show trials and executed. Hitler used the 20 July Plot as an excuse to destroy anyone he feared would oppose him. The traditional military salute was replaced with the Nazi salute. Eventually, over 20,000 Germans were killed or sent to concentration camps in the purge

Claus von Stauffenberg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org