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Anything but an Atheist

SlackMaster

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Setting aside the overly dramatic music in this video, it makes a good point. I'm an atheist and I know if I came out at work and let it slip that I was, I would immediately be marginalized by many co-workers.

In my office anyone not seen to be religious in some fashion is looked down on.



To other atheists on this board. Are you able to be openly atheist amongst family, friends, and co-workers or do you risk being outcast?
 
To other atheists on this board. Are you able to be openly atheist amongst family, friends, and co-workers or do you risk being outcast?

In the interests of full disclosure, I tend to identify myself as philosophically agnostic (in the sense that I recognize the logical possibility that there could be a higher power of some sort) but a de facto atheist (in the sense that I see no good reason to think or behave as if God of any sort actually does exist, absent evidence demonstrating as much).

But yes, I can be openly atheist amongst pretty much everyone I know. This is because (I suspect) I'm a third generation atheist on my father's side (my grandfather was a psychoanalyst, and an ardent materialist), I live in San Francisco, and pretty much everyone I know is an artist, a lawyer, or a Berkeley grad (or some combination thereof).
 
I wouldn't be an outcast, but those who are significantly religious (a small handful of coworkers and a few family members) would spend entirely too much time trying to convert me. Those who I know will not exercise the effort and waste my time on conversions are privy to my stance. I don't feel judged, just suffocated.
 
To other atheists on this board. Are you able to be openly atheist amongst family, friends, and co-workers or do you risk being outcast?

There's always some risk of outcast from a few I suppose. If atheism had any outward mark of itself, Atheists would probably be the most discriminated block of people. Thankfully you can't tell someone is an atheist just by looking at them. Regardless, I am still very open about my atheism. I'm in academia and here we have a mixture of theism and atheism and people don't judge based solely on that.
 
Since own my own businesses,I crack down heavily on any employee of mine that I hear about discriminating and or proselytizing during work hours.And if any of my co-workers have a problem with me being a non-christian they had better remeber who signs their checks
My family is religious and gave me nothing but grief until I became a successful businessman.Now I don't want and have anything to do with them at all.
My wife is atheist and she is also the outcast of her family,and she owns her own medical practice.We have a rather diverse circle of friends,and religion never plays a factor in our relations.
It's that evangelical christian who lives across the street that both me and Lena seem to be at odds with.We try to be nice neighbors to them,but ever since I told them that I don't allow anyone to proselytize to me in my own home,they never want to come to my cook-outs and crawfish boils (and since I am a chef,the entire block always shows up.)
 
While Atheists are just about the most despised minority group in the US, as well as being one of the largest minority groups in the US, I make absolutely no secret of it. I refuse to pretend to be something I'm not.
 
I'm open about it and no-one I know has any problem with it. Some of my immediate family are Mormons, so I get visits from missionaries on occasion, but they're nice people and I don't begrudge them doing what they think's best. But then, religion ain't near as big a thing here as it is in the US.
 
I can be honest with everyone I know. Mostly because I don't spend time with people who would demonize me for being an atheist, and I'm a city-slicker and of course cities tend to be more tolerant in general.

I remember an incident in high school, though. It was an AP US History course, and we were studying the Enlightenment. A time, incidentally, where it was common amongst the intelligentsia to be deist, agnostic, or even atheist. Our teacher asked if there were any agnostics or atheists in the room.

Only me and one other person raised our hands.

On the way out of class that day, we got shoved around a fair bit by the fairly violent Evangelical Christians that largely populated my school. I've seen them do far worse, though, so I was honestly surprised we didn't get attacked. Yes, I'm serious. There were numerous physical attacks (gays and Jews mostly) during my time at the school. And no, my school was not way in the boonies. It was a nice suburban part of Minnesota, 20 miles from the edge of the city, and one of the best-ranked public schools in the nation.

NGMN85 makes a good point, though. There are more non-religious people in this country than black people. There are more non-religious people in this country than every other religion combined, apart from Christianity. Most of them are just too busy hiding. As of a couple years ago, 6 states even had laws on the books prohibiting an elected politician from serving if they do not profess a faith - in direct violation of the Constitution. There's more than enough of us, and more than enough religious people who support tolerance, and we really need to do something about it.
 
Since atheism is a choice made based on available information, I really see no reason to protest and march and request tolerance from any other group. You can't choose race and you can't choose sexuality, but you CAN choose whether or not to make your religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) an issue of contention. When my family works to convert me (as the the religion they've chosen instructs them to do) I politely remind them that I appreciate their concern, but I'm okay with my decision. That isn't to say they won't try again later, but what harm is it doing?

Those who would do harm are the radicals, the extremists, those who have larger issues than refusing to accept atheism.
 
Since atheism is a choice made based on available information, I really see no reason to protest and march and request tolerance from any other group.

I would disagree with you. I don't "choose" to believe in something. I'm either genuinely convinced of a proposition or I'm not. If I'm not really convinced, the best I can do is fain belief in something.

Intolerance for atheism is out there. There's no reason why a news anchor should be telling people to treat atheists like "trolls". Could you imagine if she had said, "Yea... you have to treat these Christians like they're trolls."

If I went knocking on someone's door trying to convert them to atheism, they'd call the cops on me. You live in Dallas. Can you imagine the response I'd get if I started going door to door? If I didn't get shot, I'd definitely make the 6 O'clock news.

There are many other double standards and ways in which Atheists are marginalized.

You can't choose race and you can't choose sexuality, but you CAN choose whether or not to make your religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) an issue of contention.

I have never made my non-belief a "point of contention". I've merely stated that I am atheist. After which came the threats, the disassociation, and the marginalization. I lost friends over it and would likely lose family if I were to tell them.

I'm not making my non-belief a point of contention, believers are.

When my family works to convert me (as the the religion they've chosen instructs them to do) I politely remind them that I appreciate their concern, but I'm okay with my decision. That isn't to say they won't try again later, but what harm is it doing?

Would it be considered rude if you constantly tried to convert them to atheism?

Those who would do harm are the radicals, the extremists, those who have larger issues than refusing to accept atheism.

I've seen lots of harm done by main stream religious people, the least of which is harm to our educational system when they try to get intelligent design taught in our schools, or teach that homosexuality is an abomination, or that atheist are all immoral devil worshipers.
 
I would disagree with you. I don't "choose" to believe in something. I'm either genuinely convinced of a proposition or I'm not. If I'm not really convinced, the best I can do is fain belief in something.

Intolerance for atheism is out there. There's no reason why a news anchor should be telling people to treat atheists like "trolls". Could you imagine if she had said, "Yea... you have to treat these Christians like they're trolls."

If I went knocking on someone's door trying to convert them to atheism, they'd call the cops on me. You live in Dallas. Can you imagine the response I'd get if I started going door to door? If I didn't get shot, I'd definitely make the 6 O'clock news.

There are many other double standards and ways in which Atheists are marginalized.



I have never made my non-belief a "point of contention". I've merely stated that I am atheist. After which came the threats, the disassociation, and the marginalization. I lost friends over it and would likely lose family if I were to tell them.

I'm not making my non-belief a point of contention, believers are.



Would it be considered rude if you constantly tried to convert them to atheism?


I've seen lots of harm done by main stream religious people, the least of which is harm to our educational system when they try to get intelligent design taught in our schools, or teach that homosexuality is an abomination, or that atheist are all immoral devil worshipers.

There is no doctrine of atheism which states that you must convert people to atheism in order to be true in your beliefs (or non-beliefs). Almost every sect of Christianity requires ministery and missionary work to convert and encourage conversion of non-believers. Without such action you are not following the righteous path of that religion. It is a mandate of faith. It isn't about being rude, it's about what you are compelled or required to do on the basis of your faith.

And yeah, you make a choice. If you're in somebody's face screaming, "I don't believe in God, shut the hell up. Don't tell me about God" you're probably going to get a lot of crap from people. If you don't mention it (and why should you? there's no reason to discuss faith in a work environment, during a casual meeting, etc) there's no cause for uproar. If you do mention it, being polite, respectful, and firm will be enough with MOST people of faith. As much as you choose whether or not to make your beliefs a focal point, they're also choosing whether or not to act in a certain manner towards you. Those who harass you can be handled.

Then again, I'm a "live and let live" type. I don't feel the need to discuss religion unless somebody else brings it up because honestly, I don't care. I don't need to identify myself as an atheist or a follower of Christ or anything else, because it isn't all of who I am, and and it's personal. I also see no reason to be defensive, hostile, or disagreeable towards somebody of faith on the basis of our opposing views.
 
There is no doctrine of atheism which states that you must convert people to atheism in order to be true in your beliefs (or non-beliefs). Almost every sect of Christianity requires ministery and missionary work to convert and encourage conversion of non-believers. Without such action you are not following the righteous path of that religion. It is a mandate of faith. It isn't about being rude, it's about what you are compelled or required to do on the basis of your faith.

And yeah, you make a choice. If you're in somebody's face screaming, "I don't believe in God, shut the hell up. Don't tell me about God" you're probably going to get a lot of crap from people. If you don't mention it (and why should you? there's no reason to discuss faith in a work environment, during a casual meeting, etc) there's no cause for uproar. If you do mention it, being polite, respectful, and firm will be enough with MOST people of faith. As much as you choose whether or not to make your beliefs a focal point, they're also choosing whether or not to act in a certain manner towards you. Those who harass you can be handled.

Then again, I'm a "live and let live" type. I don't feel the need to discuss religion unless somebody else brings it up because honestly, I don't care. I don't need to identify myself as an atheist or a follower of Christ or anything else, because it isn't all of who I am, and and it's personal. I also see no reason to be defensive, hostile, or disagreeable towards somebody of faith on the basis of our opposing views.

So religious people can shove it down our throats because it's "part of their doctrine" (which, by the way, so is stoning people who don't follow certain rules) and we atheist should just shut up about it and stay in the closet so as not to make our non-belief a "point of contention".

This is like say, "Yea... you can be gay, just don't tell anyone and you'll be fine."

I don't get in religious people's face, but I have to hide it. If I even let someone around here know that I don't believe in Jesus I can kiss my job good-bye. They won't fire me because of that directly, but they'll "find a reason".
 
So religious people can shove it down our throats because it's "part of their doctrine" (which, by the way, so is stoning people who don't follow certain rules) and we atheist should just shut up about it and stay in the closet so as not to make our non-belief a "point of contention".

This is like say, "Yea... you can be gay, just don't tell anyone and you'll be fine."

I don't get in religious people's face, but I have to hide it. If I even let someone around here know that I don't believe in Jesus I can kiss my job good-bye. They won't fire me because of that directly, but they'll "find a reason".

And then you have a discrimination law suit.

I'm not telling you to hide your non-belief...I'm saying that (for me) there is no point in even discussing it, because it's personal. I'm not hiding anything that is relevant to knowing/respecting me.

For me, being an atheist is no different than the fact that I had my gallbladder removed. It isn't a reflection of how I treat people, how I handle personal interaction, or whether or not I can satisfy my obligations. It isn't a topic I feel I need to bring into a casual or professional conversation unless the topic is broached by the other party. Even then, I see no reason for the discussion, but I'll have it (respectfully) if they're so inclined. I see no need to run around screaming, "Yeah! I'm an atheist!! Look at me, I'm an atheist!!" For the record, though....even the most ardently religious people I know have never, ever, ever tried to insult, attack, condemn, or belittle me for being an atheist. I'm sure they silently pity my assured descent into hell when I die, but they're respectful and understanding so long as I am.

It seems to me that many of the atheists who have problems with religious folk are those who are hostile about their atheism. Perhaps there's something to that.
 
To other atheists on this board. Are you able to be openly atheist amongst family, friends, and co-workers or do you risk being outcast?

I'm openly atheist with pretty much everyone, but it doesn't always come up in a conversation so I'm sure ther eare some peopel who don't know that I am. My father-in-law, for example, may or may not know I am an atheist. I'm not sure since we've never discussed religion (my thinking is that religion and politics are things you never discuss with the in-laws no matter what you believe).

I've encountered a mixed-bag with people's reactions when learning I am an atheist. My favorite one of all time was "Aren't you afraid that you'll go to hell for being an atheist?"

To which I said "No, but the best thing about being an atheist is that if I ever do start worrying about that, I automatically stop being an atheist, which would mean I won't go to hell for being an atheist anymore."
 
I'm an open atheist because I just don't care what anyone else thinks. I am an honest person. I'm not in-your-face about it, or anything else, but if someone asks, or the subject comes up, I tell it like it is and don't care who likes it. Of course, it's hard to marginalize me at work because I'm in charge. :)
 
It seems to me that many of the atheists who have problems with religious folk are those who are hostile about their atheism. Perhaps there's something to that.

Right, because religious people don't want to shove their beliefs down anyone's throats or anything. If an atheist feels marginalized it's entirely the atheist's fault. :roll:
 
I'm openly atheist with pretty much everyone, but it doesn't always come up in a conversation

Everybody Knows -Cohen

"I do not consider myself a Christian; however, I'd like to speak with the congregation today about the bible. I fear god in a way and I praise Jesus, and I was thinking about this part of the bible..." -Me in churches

fwiw, I like Esther, Ruth, Moses, Joshua, David, Elijah and Daniel.
 
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Right, because religious people don't want to shove their beliefs down anyone's throats or anything. If an atheist feels marginalized it's entirely the atheist's fault. :roll:

If you don't respect religion, don't expect the religious to respect you. Religious doctrine is tied into the absolutism of faith, much like a lack of belief is tied into the absolutism of atheism. They are told that they cannot spend eternity in a place of goodwill unless the meet certain requirements. Some rules change with time, but ministery and missionary work have always existed in the pretense of Christianity, and because informing people of God's word is consider a relatively docile activity, it's not likely to be subject to societal change any time soon.

"Shoving it down people's throats" is a manner of your perspective. Perhaps your approach is lacking if you have not successfully ended the pressures of the religious people in your own life.
 
Setting aside the overly dramatic music in this video, it makes a good point. I'm an atheist and I know if I came out at work and let it slip that I was, I would immediately be marginalized by many co-workers.

In my office anyone not seen to be religious in some fashion is looked down on.



To other atheists on this board. Are you able to be openly atheist amongst family, friends, and co-workers or do you risk being outcast?


Well, I don't know that to be the case, but I can see it happen. To many people that are religious, it's just an assumption that most everyone believes in SOMETHING of an afterlife.

There are mathematical and physical (as in physics, not material) proofs of spiritual concepts, though I doubt there is little in common between that truth and major religions.

So, what I would ask of many of these people that are claiming atheist is if they simply do not believe in a "god" or if they also deny the "soul"?

Beyond that, I do think that people get too worked up about religion, people should not be marginalized for their beliefs, but I think it is appropriate at times to challenge people on their religious beliefs. Though I doubt the answers are readily available in any book.
 
If you don't respect religion, don't expect the religious to respect you.

Religious people don't respect atheism, why should they deserve to be respected?
 
Religious people don't respect atheism, why should they deserve to be respected?

That generalization neglects a very large group of religious people who respect others just fine. SOME religious people don't respect those who don't believe in God, but to say or imply that all of them are that way is inaccurate.
 
That generalization neglects a very large group of religious people who respect others just fine. SOME religious people don't respect those who don't believe in God, but to say or imply that all of them are that way is inaccurate.

But you said, and I quote:
They are told that they cannot spend eternity in a place of goodwill unless the meet certain requirements. Some rules change with time, but ministery and missionary work have always existed in the pretense of Christianity, and because informing people of God's word is consider a relatively docile activity, it's not likely to be subject to societal change any time soon.

That's not respect, it's trying to change another person's mind, simply because they're convinced they're wrong. Further, there are lots of theists of all stripes who vote to include religion in our secular government. That's not respect either.
 
But you said, and I quote:


That's not respect, it's trying to change another person's mind, simply because they're convinced they're wrong. Further, there are lots of theists of all stripes who vote to include religion in our secular government. That's not respect either.

I can't explain it any better than I have. They are compelled by absolute belief to present the word of god to those who do not believe or have not had the chance to "know God". Some will be more ardent in their cause than others. It isn't about respect, it's about obligation. If you're a soldier obligated to do your job and you kill an insurgent firing on your truck, you damn sure aren't respecting his family, but you're living up to your obligation..and at the end of the day, which is better?

Either you understand and accept religion, or you don't. If you choose not to nobody can stop you; but pretending that discounting their system is somehow less offensive or disrespectful then them trying to convert you is a fallacy.
 
I can't explain it any better than I have. They are compelled by absolute belief to present the word of god to those who do not believe or have not had the chance to "know God". Some will be more ardent in their cause than others. It isn't about respect, it's about obligation. If you're a soldier obligated to do your job and you kill an insurgent firing on your truck, you damn sure aren't respecting his family, but you're living up to your obligation..and at the end of the day, which is better?

Either you understand and accept religion, or you don't. If you choose not to nobody can stop you; but pretending that discounting their system is somehow less offensive or disrespectful then them trying to convert you is a fallacy.

Which takes us right back to my original question, why should we respect them if they won't respect us and our right not to believe their silly fairy tales? I do understand religion, I simply do not respect it or anyone who follows it. They have not earned my respect by acting in a rational, logical fashion. No one is entitled not to be offended, nor do they have to be respected. Their actions dictate how they are treated. Act badly, and I consider trying to force your beliefs on me through social pressure or force of law to be bad, then you will be treated accordingly.
 
Since atheism is a choice made based on available information, I really see no reason to protest and march and request tolerance from any other group. You can't choose race and you can't choose sexuality, but you CAN choose whether or not to make your religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) an issue of contention. When my family works to convert me (as the the religion they've chosen instructs them to do) I politely remind them that I appreciate their concern, but I'm okay with my decision. That isn't to say they won't try again later, but what harm is it doing?

Those who would do harm are the radicals, the extremists, those who have larger issues than refusing to accept atheism.

I couldn't disagree more. Issues of conscience are no more a choice than race of sexual preference. It is disgusting to hear people talk about atheism as a "choice" to justify discrimination against atheists. Kinda reminds me of the people who call being gay a "choice."

Truly religious people do not "choose" their religion, and similarly those truly convinced by atheism do not "choose" to be convinced. They find it to be true, and cannot help themselves. It is the path their conscience leads them down. It must be respected.
 
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