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Anyone want to admit they were in the 'don't vote for Hillary, we need the backlash trump will cause' group in 2016?

Irredentist said:
I voted for Hillary, but I knew that if Trump won, it would ultimately destabilize the country. This is not in and of itself a good thing, but instability tends to make people more willing to accept radical reform. And that's something we could definitely use right now.
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I DID vote for Hillary but the funny part is, my vote for Hillary would be accurately described by conservative columnist PJ O'Rourke.

P.J. O’Rourke: I’m Endorsing Hillary Clinton, the Devil We Know
 
Craig234 said:
Yes, but the only leader offering the needed reform is Bernie.
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It's clear that we've been dragged so far to the Right that Bernie was too far the other way.
There is an awful lot of political real estate between Trump Fascist Right and Bernie's Social Democrat ideology.
(Yes I know he insists he's a "democratic socialist" but he's wrong. He's a social Democrat)

You can't skip OVER all that real estate.
Hell, it's now proven that you can't even skip over from Obama centrism to TrumpFasc.
 
Irredentist said:
Fortunately, Bernie is looking to be a significant influence in the coming administration, as the new Chair of the Senate Budget Committee. We may see reform yet.
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A lot of people predicted the Bern in charge of something.
I just expected him to be SecLabor. Obviously I was wrong LOL.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
It's clear that we've been dragged so far to the Right that Bernie was too far the other way.
There is an awful lot of political real estate between Trump Fascist Right and Bernie's Social Democrat ideology.
(Yes I know he insists he's a "democratic socialist" but he's wrong. He's a social Democrat)

You can't skip OVER all that real estate.
Hell, it's now proven that you can't even skip over from Obama centrism to TrumpFasc.
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You absolutely can 'skip over all that real estate'. Bernie would likely have won in 2016. This idea of left/right is screwed up. Reagan did it. Bush 43 did it - he lost yet moved the country way to the right. And BTW, you could have slipped from Obama to trump - if trump had just been a little less incompetent, like not being pro-virus, he'd have won, incredibly.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
A lot of people predicted the Bern in charge of something.
I just expected him to be SecLabor. Obviously I was wrong LOL.
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That would certainly be an appropriate position for him to hold, but Budget Committee Chair is probably more important.

Plus I doubt he would want to give up his senate seat for anything short of the presidency.
 
Craig234 said:
We couldn't know you were wrong then that there would be a big backlash and move to the left, but I'd say that, while Biden won and the Senate flipped, you were mostly wrong and lucky.

Biden won by something like 43,000 votes, and the House and Senate did worse than expected, losing seats in the House, and the Senate down to a 1% margin in Georgia. Not exactly a big backlash, rather a very close call.

Instead of a big backlash, trump maintained his support until 2021 despite being the worst president in history and the pandemic and crash of the economy.

Instead of punishing Republicans for corruptly supporting trump, such as refusing to convict him, voters didn't really punish them mostly.

Want to make a case that you were right, that the trump presidency was worth it for you to try to get a backlash? Or does no one admit supporting that now?
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I voted against both Trump and Clinton in 2016, my disdain for both was sky high. This time around I went for Biden. The only adult running. There was a backlash to Trump in both 2018, the Democrats picked up the house and in 2020. The backlash was against Trump, but not the Republican Party. I think you need look at independents to see the backlash. Republicans and Democrats will vote for their party's candidates over 90% of the time regardless of who that or their candidate/s are. You're not going to see a backlash there. They're voting the R and the D, not necessarily for their candidate as any candidate as long as that candidate has the proper letter behind his name will do.

The backlash, in 2016 independents went for Trump 46-42 with 12% voting third party against both major party candidates. In 2018 independents voted for the Democratic congressional candidates 54-42 mainly to show they didn't like Trump. Then in 2020 these same independents went for Biden 54-41, a 17 point swing from 2016 in their support for Trump. That backlash was at the presidential level and directed mainly, perhaps only at Trump.

Among independents in 2020 there were a lot of ticket splitters who voted for Biden, against Trump and then Republican down ballot. Their vote was against Trump, not necessarily for Biden, but it all counts the same. Congressional wise, the independent vote was basically the same as in 2016. 49-48 Democratic in 2016, 50-48 Democratic in 2020. Biden won the independent vote by 13 points, the Democratic congressional candidates by 2 points. There were many reasons for this, but that should be left to another thread, another day. Yes the Democrats lost 13 house seats, 2 state legislatures and a governorship while Biden won the presidency by 7 plus million votes. It seems to me, independents wanted Trump gone, but wanted the status quo down ballot. Hence they gave the Democrats no mandate, they didn't endorse or reject either major party's ideals, agendas. No backlash down ballot, but a big one at the presidential level. At least as far as independents are concerned.
 
Craig234 said:
You absolutely can 'skip over all that real estate'. Bernie would likely have won in 2016. This idea of left/right is screwed up. Reagan did it. Bush 43 did it - he lost yet moved the country way to the right. And BTW, you could have slipped from Obama to trump - if trump had just been a little less incompetent, like not being pro-virus, he'd have won, incredibly.
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Did you notice the direction? Center --->>> Right, Left ---->> Right.
The last time it went that far the other way was Hoover to FDR.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Did you notice the direction? Center --->>> Right, Left ---->> Right.
The last time it went that far the other way was Hoover to FDR.
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That 'last time that happened' is not a good gauge. When's the last time we elected un utterly unqualified corrupt bufoon before trump? When's the last time we elected a divorced president before Reagan? A black president before Obama? It's like saying "We've never elected Bernie, so we can't elect a Bernie". You ignored my comment that the left/right issue distorts things.

You might remember trump ran to the LEFT of HIllary on economics, sounding more like Bernie, saying the rich were not paying their fair share and he'd raise their taxes and so on. So yes, Bernie was very electable in the general.
 
Craig234 said:
That 'last time that happened' is not a good gauge. When's the last time we elected un utterly unqualified corrupt bufoon before trump? When's the last time we elected a divorced president before Reagan? A black president before Obama? It's like saying "We've never elected Bernie, so we can't elect a Bernie". You ignored my comment that the left/right issue distorts things.

You might remember trump ran to the LEFT of HIllary on economics, sounding more like Bernie, saying the rich were not paying their fair share and he'd raise their taxes and so on. So yes, Bernie was very electable in the general.
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Go on, go on...I'm listening.
 
Craig234 said:
We couldn't know you were wrong then that there would be a big backlash and move to the left, but I'd say that, while Biden won and the Senate flipped, you were mostly wrong and lucky.

Biden won by something like 43,000 votes, and the House and Senate did worse than expected, losing seats in the House, and the Senate down to a 1% margin in Georgia. Not exactly a big backlash, rather a very close call.

Instead of a big backlash, trump maintained his support until 2021 despite being the worst president in history and the pandemic and crash of the economy.

Instead of punishing Republicans for corruptly supporting trump, such as refusing to convict him, voters didn't really punish them mostly.

Want to make a case that you were right, that the trump presidency was worth it for you to try to get a backlash? Or does no one admit supporting that now?
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Nope, never supported that. I voted for Clinton. Would do so again. Throughout the 2016 primaries and election I never thought someone as unqualified as Trump could possible win the presidency. It was shocking. It still is.
 
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