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Any tanks, fighters, or bombers that run on renewable fuel?

The military has been using biodiesel for over a decade.
 
Sometimes I think Dave works for the Pentagon as an NSA disinformation agent paid to discredit and make people who want sensible change in US foreign policy look like morons by self-association...
 
Are there any tanks, fighters, or bombers that run on ethanol or batteries? I've always thought an aircraft carriers deck could be a giant solar panel for powering not only the ship, except also the batteries on the planes. The plane's wings could have solar panels as well. They could also attach windmills to the aircraft carrier to assist in power generation.

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Though, I dont think it has much range and its ordinance load it pretty limited.
 
At $13.50 per gallon.

Try imagining the cost of running a Arleigh Burke class destroyer's LM2500 gas turbines doing a 2/3 bell for a day.

Waste of funds.

Well, it might have been helpful if you had provided a link.
I guarantee you that any and ALL fuels used by the military are going to be overpriced.
How can they not be?

Unless you're on a base right here in the USA, I can't see how it could ever be a discount.
I can't see how any motor fuel not being consumed on-base could be a discount.

I'm not a petroleum expert but even I recognize that part of the price I pay at the pump covers the refinery costs and the cost to transport the stuff to the gas station.

Now imagine that most of your "gas stations" are in FOB's or even directly in war zones, and in remote locations which are difficult to reach. Imagine trying to keep fuel deliveries going to FOB Shank, for instance.
 
Still heavier than fuel.

I'm not sure about that, are you sure about that?
I used very large Lithium-Ion batteries almost every day since they were first invented.

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I kinda doubt that lithium-ion batteries weigh as much as gallons of liquid fuel.
 
I'm not sure about that, are you sure about that?
I used very large Lithium-Ion batteries almost every day since they were first invented.

View attachment 67246376

I kinda doubt that lithium-ion batteries weigh as much as gallons of liquid fuel.

Stand up Forklifts use them, and they are so heavy, they act to help counterbalance them.

Also, unlike fuel, they don't get less heavy as weight goes down.

Also, unlike fuel, they are not temperature stable. In extreme cold, they will lose charge.


The day WILL come, though. Drones. Battery powered, remote piloted air to air combat craft. Inevitable.
 
Well, it might have been helpful if you had provided a link.
I guarantee you that any and ALL fuels used by the military are going to be overpriced.
How can they not be?

Unless you're on a base right here in the USA, I can't see how it could ever be a discount.
I can't see how any motor fuel not being consumed on-base could be a discount.

I'm not a petroleum expert but even I recognize that part of the price I pay at the pump covers the refinery costs and the cost to transport the stuff to the gas station.

Now imagine that most of your "gas stations" are in FOB's or even directly in war zones, and in remote locations which are difficult to reach. Imagine trying to keep fuel deliveries going to FOB Shank, for instance.

I am a 20 year Navy Engineman who operated boilers, steam turbines, propulsion diesels, and diesel generator plants.

The LM2500 is right on par with steam propulsion efficiency...............not great!
 
Well, it might have been helpful if you had provided a link.
I guarantee you that any and ALL fuels used by the military are going to be overpriced.
How can they not be?

Unless you're on a base right here in the USA, I can't see how it could ever be a discount.
I can't see how any motor fuel not being consumed on-base could be a discount.

I'm not a petroleum expert but even I recognize that part of the price I pay at the pump covers the refinery costs and the cost to transport the stuff to the gas station.

Now imagine that most of your "gas stations" are in FOB's or even directly in war zones, and in remote locations which are difficult to reach. Imagine trying to keep fuel deliveries going to FOB Shank, for instance.

And..........no.

The military pays the local price....period.
 
I am a 20 year Navy Engineman who operated boilers, steam turbines, propulsion diesels, and diesel generator plants.

The LM2500 is right on par with steam propulsion efficiency...............not great!

I wasn't referring to efficiency, I was responding to your mention of fuel price.
Congratulations on your lifer stint as an engineman, I'm married to one.

Karenbar4.jpg

Do you still have your gear?
Wife has hers on her keychain.
 
U.S. Dept of Energy
Average fuel prices per gallon.


National Average Price Between
July 1 and July 30, 2018 Fuel Price

Biodiesel (B20)$3.06/gallon
Biodiesel (B99-B100)$3.55/gallon
Electricity$0.13/kWh
Ethanol (E85)$2.35/gallon
Natural Gas (CNG)$2.22/GGE
Liquefied Natural Gas$2.6/DGE
Propane$2.81/gallon
Gasoline$2.88/gallon
Diesel$3.24/gallon
 
The plane would also have batteries that would be charged by the solar panels on the aircraft carrier and the windmills.

And how long is that going to take?

One of the biggest advantages of liquid fuels is that they can be quickly poured into a fuel tank. That means that you have a quick turnaround for repeat missions.

We would have to vastly increase that if the aircraft were powered by batteries. Probably adding 2-4 hours to the time between missions just to charge the batteries.

And no, you can not just replace the fuel weight in batteries. As a general rule aircraft try to return to the carrier as light as possible. It is not even unheard of for aircraft to dump fuel to lighten their load prior to landing. And a lot of their range is based on the fact that as they fly they are dropping weight as they use their fuel. This would be the reverse in a battery powered aircraft. As the charge drops they become less efficient, but their weight never changes.

And also forget mid-air refueling. An aircraft can refuel in about 5 minutes while it is flying. You are not going to do that on batteries.
 
And how long is that going to take?

One of the biggest advantages of liquid fuels is that they can be quickly poured into a fuel tank. That means that you have a quick turnaround for repeat missions.

We would have to vastly increase that if the aircraft were powered by batteries. Probably adding 2-4 hours to the time between missions just to charge the batteries.

And no, you can not just replace the fuel weight in batteries. As a general rule aircraft try to return to the carrier as light as possible. It is not even unheard of for aircraft to dump fuel to lighten their load prior to landing. And a lot of their range is based on the fact that as they fly they are dropping weight as they use their fuel. This would be the reverse in a battery powered aircraft. As the charge drops they become less efficient, but their weight never changes.

And also forget mid-air refueling. An aircraft can refuel in about 5 minutes while it is flying. You are not going to do that on batteries.

For military use, the batteries would have to be drop and replace. Charging of the batteries done on a spare pack, while a fully charged pack was installed. Still not as useful as just adding chemical fuel as it requires a generator and spare battery packs to do so, while still requiring the fuel to run the generator.

At present it could be useful for spec ops that have a need to run very silently, no turbine or diesel sounds to give away positions could be useful in some situations. But I would never want to run a large scale armoured division off batteries
 
At $13.50 per gallon.

Try imagining the cost of running a Arleigh Burke class destroyer's LM2500 gas turbines doing a 2/3 bell for a day.

Waste of funds.

Some of it is way more than that.

The U.S. government will pay $8.5 million for the contracted 20,055 gallons of algal fuel from Solazyme, the bulk of which must be supplied within a year. That would be nearly $424 per gallon
 
I had this mental picture of a fighter plane, weighing in from 8-22 tons slamming down on an aircraft carrier flight deck made out of solar panels during landing. :shock:

I'm thinking any money saved in energy costs would be eaten up by maintenance costs.

Doing 40 knots as a attack fighter? :lamo
 
For military use, the batteries would have to be drop and replace. Charging of the batteries done on a spare pack, while a fully charged pack was installed. Still not as useful as just adding chemical fuel as it requires a generator and spare battery packs to do so, while still requiring the fuel to run the generator.

At present it could be useful for spec ops that have a need to run very silently, no turbine or diesel sounds to give away positions could be useful in some situations. But I would never want to run a large scale armoured division off batteries

I know that we have at least played with that in vehicles.

In 2010 I saw a curious M115 weapons carrier at Fort Bliss. It was a darker tan, and when it passed me it was completely silent. I saw it driving around post a few times, and I also saw that it had a civilian driving it. A few months later I finally met the driver at the chow hall, and he was indeed a tech rep involved in testing and improving the vehicle. It was a hybrid, with an engine as a generator and 4 wheel electric drive. It could be manually switched into electric-battery operation for stealth. And they were testing 2 variants at Bliss and the ranges. One was a fairly conventional Diesel engine, the other was a Wankel rotary multi-fuel engine (he had the diesel).

He said that the Special Operations community was highly interested in it, as were some elements of the Army. I left there the next year so I have no idea what became of it. But I would actually be surprised if the SOC community did not at least have a few of them, even if they never went into a large production.
 
I know that we have at least played with that in vehicles.

In 2010 I saw a curious M115 weapons carrier at Fort Bliss. It was a darker tan, and when it passed me it was completely silent. I saw it driving around post a few times, and I also saw that it had a civilian driving it. A few months later I finally met the driver at the chow hall, and he was indeed a tech rep involved in testing and improving the vehicle. It was a hybrid, with an engine as a generator and 4 wheel electric drive. It could be manually switched into electric-battery operation for stealth. And they were testing 2 variants at Bliss and the ranges. One was a fairly conventional Diesel engine, the other was a Wankel rotary multi-fuel engine (he had the diesel).

He said that the Special Operations community was highly interested in it, as were some elements of the Army. I left there the next year so I have no idea what became of it. But I would actually be surprised if the SOC community did not at least have a few of them, even if they never went into a large production.

A lot of weapon systems could very well be useful for spec ops as opposed to regular forces. Heck I could see a spec force team outfitted with an electric power suit (helps the soldier carry heavy weights ) that are heavily armoured and armed being used to take control over very strategic locations or be involved in surgical captures or rescues. The armored aspect would help strongly against small arms, while hopefully maintaining mobility. If they were brought in by a "stealth helicopter" and extracted by the same, the short life of the battery pack would not be much of an issue. That tech I expect is probably 10-15 years out and would be very expensive. Combined with shared sensors and a HUD on the helmet showing GPS locations and a digital map I expect it could be very useful
 
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