Any Christians for the Death Penalty?

[rebel for a cause]

I do not know how you can call your self a christian and disagree with the bible old or new testament. What god does lasts for ever so it doesn't matter if he said it a billion years ago it must be the truth unless he takes it back which he won't do or he made a mistake which he doesn't do. Also if you still disagree then you are doing exacly what the devil wants you to disagree with god.

 

[Mixed View]

I do not know how you can call your self a christian and disagree with the bible old or new testament. What god does lasts for ever so it doesn't matter if he said it a billion years ago it must be the truth unless he takes it back which he won't do or he made a mistake which he doesn't do. Also if you still disagree then you are doing exacly what the devil wants you to disagree with god.

Great point. I'm just saying why should Christians base their belief on the death penalty through the old testament? Should we base punishment on the book that said that we should stone rape victims and the rapist has no punishment.

Second, our legal system is very flawed and I believe that racism can tie into punishment. And innocent people have died. THEY'VE DIED! So why would anyone support it?

 

[rebel for a cause]

Great point. I'm just saying why should Christians base their belief on the death penalty through the old testament? Should we base punishment on the book that said that we should stone rape victims and the rapist has no punishment.

Second, our legal system is very flawed and I believe that racism can tie into punishment. And innocent people have died. THEY'VE DIED! So why would anyone support it?

Where does is say we should stone rape victims and the rapist has no punishment.

 

[Mixed View]

Where does is say we should stone rape victims and the rapist has no punishment.

I don't have a bible with me right now. I'll get back to you on that though. Promise.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Let me save you some time, mixed. Check this thread http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=2657

 

[Mixed View]

Let me save you some time, mixed. Check this thread http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=2657

I actually knew I saw those scriptures somewhere on here. thanks man!

 

[rebel for a cause]

Let me save you some more time it is not NIV so it is hard to read but if you do figure it out or get NIV it says you should stone the victim when they are in the city and the victim doesn't call for help. Also if you read further it say some more stuff that you will not like but read my thread I posted there about that.

God wrote the new and old testament so you can't think one is wrong and the other is right.

 

[Snoozin]

You liberals crack me up.........You have all the compassion in the world for murderers and rapists but when it comes to and innocent, defenseless babies who has committed no crime you say murder them........

Talk about hypocrisy.....:roll:

What happens when you wrongly convict an innocent man and condemn him to the death penalty? You have killed for nothing. This goes against the fundamental precepts of our legal system.



"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

-- English jurist William Blackstone.

"It is from [Zadig] that the Nations hold this great principle, that it is better to risk saving a guilty man than to condemn an innocent."

-- Voltaire

'"Tis much more Prudence to acquit two Persons, tho' actually guilty, than to pass Sentence of Condemnation on one that is virtuous and innocent."

-- In re Kailee B., 18 Cal. App. 4th 719, 727, 22 Cal. Rptr. 2d 485, 490 n.2 (1993),

"It's better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man suffer."

-- Jim Yardley

 

[rebel for a cause]

Name a case this year where someone was wrongly convicted. Plus those quotes mean nothing they from people not the bible. The bible is true for many reasons one because it has had the more impact on humans than anything else. Also about abortion Navy Pride is right what has the baby done? Nothing so why kill it if it is because the woman does not want to pain of birth it is her fault, it being painful is a punishment from god for giving the fruit to adam in the garden of eden.

 

[Snoozin]

Name a case this year where someone was wrongly convicted. Plus those quotes mean nothing they from people not the bible. The bible is true for many reasons one because it has had the more impact on humans than anything else. Also about abortion Navy Pride is right what has the baby done? Nothing so why kill it if it is because the woman does not want to pain of birth it is her fault, it being painful is a punishment from god for giving the fruit to adam in the garden of eden.

This guy lives near me. He was wrongly convicted of raping and murdering a little 9 year old girl. DNA testing, which was not reliable when he was convicted, ultimately proved his innocence in 2000.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/06/20/bloodsworth.profile/

You can find a lot more cases here at the Innocence Project

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

If you think nothing anyone (other than the Bible) says carry any merit, then what about the quote in your signature?

 

[Duke]

I'm all about frying them bastards.

I assume you are not Christian, because according to the Bible, your God says "Thou Shalt Not Kill". So, killing is a sin, right? You don't like sinners, do you?

Duke

 

[Duke]

Name a case this year where someone was wrongly convicted. Plus those quotes mean nothing they from people not the bible. The bible is true for many reasons one because it has had the more impact on humans than anything else. Also about abortion Navy Pride is right what has the baby done? Nothing so why kill it if it is because the woman does not want to pain of birth it is her fault, it being painful is a punishment from god for giving the fruit to adam in the garden of eden.

Just because the Bible impacts people doesn't make it true. It amazes me that you do not know that.

Is English your first language? "Plus those quotes mean nothing they from people not in the bible. " the woman does not want to pain of birth it is her fault". For the record, it is not always her fault, you would have to be pretty dumb not to know that.

All of this religous stuff is a smelly pile of sh!t. Are you saying that if you are not in the Bible than you are not important? You do know that the Bible is not factual, right? Oh, you may not know what factual means. It means true. That garden of eden crap is just a bad excuse to be sexist. The garden of eden never existed. Get over it.


Duke

 

[Pretender]

This might have been brought up before, I am sorry if it was. I just quickly skimmed the arguments.

It is possible for a christian to support the death penalty. There is the Commandment "Thou shalt not MURDER." The common believe is that it says kill, but there was a mistranslation. By now there are several mistranslations, because the bible was copied by hand from one text to another in the early years by scribes and/or monks. If you can justify it then it would not be murder. Also NEVER take the Bible literally.

I myself an still against the death penalty.

 

[kal-el]

This might have been brought up before, I am sorry if it was. I just quickly skimmed the arguments.

It is possible for a christian to support the death penalty. There is the Commandment "Thou shalt not MURDER." The common believe is that it says kill, but there was a mistranslation. By now there are several mistranslations, because the bible was copied by hand from one text to another in the early years by scribes and/or monks. If you can justify it then it would not be murder. Also NEVER take the Bible literally.

I myself an still against the death penalty.

Tou shalt not murder? IMO, 2 wrongs definetly don't make a right here. We don't have the right to play "God" or send people to their death.

Originally posted by rebel for a cause
God wrote the new and old testament so you can't think one is wrong and the other is right.

No he didn't. He suppossedly dictated the messages to ancient transcribers, and they wrote it down. There could be many distortions. Many people are authors. The OT was a totally barberic and war-like time period. It was not a "love your enemy" time, it was an "eye for an eye" time.

 

[clone]

^agreed, for the most part.

in my opinion, religion should not dictate what you believe, it should give you a deeper understanding of things, and let you decide for yourself.

however, i disagree with the statement that "we shouldnt play god". if you dont want to play god, then let criminals go free and let god will punish them as he sees fit. if it isnt our duty to hand out death, then it isnt our duty to hand out ANY judgement about the actions of another man.
likewise, stop people from having kids, because that is in a way, "playing god".

i am a muslim, and my holy book tells me, "and if thou should kill one man, it would be like killing all of mankind. and if thou savest one man, it would be as if you have saved all of mankind" (unsure of where). the Quran does not anywhere say that we should kill a man who has commited a sin, nor does it say he should be allowed to go free.

i think the penalty for murder should be decided by the family of the victim, only they have the right to hand out punishments.

 

[rebel for a cause]

You said dna testing was not relibalbe then so that was a long time ago we are not talking aobut that we are talking about now. You can not be wrongly convicted of murder now. Also the bible says if you talk someones life your life will be taken to argue with that would be to argue with god. Also mixed view you can't dissmiss the whole old testament because of one thing that you "disagree" with. All I am saying is the bible says it and the bible is right if god said something diferent he went back on his word and god doesn't do that. It is probaly the most clear thing in the bible said many times in all the books that have laws but you don't believe it.

 

[Snoozin]

^agreed, for the most part.

in my opinion, religion should not dictate what you believe, it should give you a deeper understanding of things, and let you decide for yourself.

however, i disagree with the statement that "we shouldnt play god". if you dont want to play god, then let criminals go free and let god will punish them as he sees fit. if it isnt our duty to hand out death, then it isnt our duty to hand out ANY judgement about the actions of another man.
likewise, stop people from having kids, because that is in a way, "playing god".

i am a muslim, and my holy book tells me, "and if thou should kill one man, it would be like killing all of mankind. and if thou savest one man, it would be as if you have saved all of mankind" (unsure of where). the Quran does not anywhere say that we should kill a man who has commited a sin, nor does it say he should be allowed to go free.

i think the penalty for murder should be decided by the family of the victim, only they have the right to hand out punishments.

Hello, Clone,

Very interesting post! I have heard that quote before from the holy Qur'an, but I don't know where it is either. Judiasm has a similar belief. I haven't heard of it in Christianity....

Interesting, too, having the penalty decided by the victim's family. They *do* have some input in the penalty phase in most states now, I believe, as they are permitted to give testimony to how the crime affected them.

May I ask a personal question? What school of fiqh do you follow, if any? (I'm assuming you are Sunni but please forgive me if I'm wrong). I am a new student of Islam and very interested in how it is practiced/followed in different parts of the world.

Salaam,

Snoozin

 

[Snoozin]

You said dna testing was not relibalbe then so that was a long time ago we are not talking aobut that we are talking about now. You can not be wrongly convicted of murder now. Also the bible says if you talk someones life your life will be taken to argue with that would be to argue with god. Also mixed view you can't dissmiss the whole old testament because of one thing that you "disagree" with. All I am saying is the bible says it and the bible is right if god said something diferent he went back on his word and god doesn't do that. It is probaly the most clear thing in the bible said many times in all the books that have laws but you don't believe it.

I love our legal system, but it is *still* fallible. So many things could go wrong. People get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time, which means there is little, if any, physical evidence at the scene to even try and test DNA. There could be racial bias. What if a black man is on trial for raping and killing a white woman, and most of the jury is white? What if their judgment is clouded by racial prejudice and they don't look as hard at the evidence as they should, and convict the guy anyway, even though he may, in reality, be innocent? We are humans and we make mistakes. I don't think we have the right to make mistakes with taking another person's life.

Life in prison without parole is sufficient, in my opinion. The greatest punishment is to remove a person from this society. He doesn't benefit from society, and we don't have to worry about him walking around on our streets.

 

[clone]

if you asked any other muslim in the world what fiqh i was from, they would say i wasnt a muslim. im an Ahmadi muslim. ask any mullah anywhere, and theyll say we are kaffar. we are persecuted in many middle eastern countries. for a basic overview go to www.alislam.org

 

[Snoozin]

if you asked any other muslim in the world what fiqh i was from, they would say i wasnt a muslim. im an Ahmadi muslim. ask any mullah anywhere, and theyll say we are kaffar. we are persecuted in many middle eastern countries. for a basic overview go to www.alislam.org

Ah, no, I'm familiar with Ahmadi Muslims! Thank you for answering!

 

[DivineComedy]

Hello, Clone,

I have heard that quote before from the holy Qur'an, but I don't know where it is either.

Check out [5.32] of The Table-Al Ma'ida.

 

[clone]

yep thats it.

 

[Snoozin]

Check out [5.32] of The Table-Al Ma'ida.

Cool, thanks. My translation of that says:

"That is why We decreed for the children of Israel
that whosoever kills a human being,
except (as punishment) for murder
or for spreading corruption in the land,
it shall be like killing all humanity;
and whosoever saves a life,
saves the entire human race."

I guess that answers whether Islam is OK with capital punishment.

 

[kal-el]

Hey Clone, since these are your "people" directly affected, may I ask what are your thoughts on this war?

 

[clone]

the war has gotten us nowhere. terrorists resided in iraq before this war, and they reside their now, only now theyve become active. although attacks on ahmadis have subsided for hte most part, the American Government has so far done absolutly nothing to stop the laws that restrict us from practicing our religion in the middle east.