Any advice on a generator and the cost?

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Oops I may have spoken too soon, as Southern California Edison and LA Dept of Water and Power are announcing "rolling temp blackouts" today due to the excessive heat, first time this has actually happened since the 2001 California (Enron driven) Electricity Crisis.

So we might just be running on the gennie at some point this afternoon if our area draws the short straw!
Earlier I said that I can hear the gennie react to the central AC kick in and PIPEWRENCH (quite correctly) pointed out that if your mains or gennie can't give the AC the proper 220-240 volts, the motor coils can get baked pretty badly and you will wind up with a busted compressor unit.

What I meant was that for a split second you can hear the slight blip in the gennie when the AC compressor starts up, but it is still pushing the 110-120 and 220-240 volts. It's just a split second blip, and you have to really be listening for it to notice it.

Even when we're running on the normal mains power, you can notice the blip in the voltage for a split second, and we actually have a 400 amp service because I used to run a lot of production lighting from time to time here back when I still had a ton of old incandescent studio lighting.
I still have those old antiques but I did manage to get a lot of pro-grade LED upgrades and I retrofitted a lot of those old lights with the new bulbs.
Plus, we have an electric oven, which really sucks up the juice. (We don't even try to run that thing on the gennie.)

Heh, if I'd known that the price of professional studio LED was going to drop so much so quickly I wouldn't have gotten rid of some of my old studio lights. Yeah, they weigh a ton but they're awesome...long as you don't have to be the grip who is moving them around all day long.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Its the original system from 91. SOS keeps it going for free with my HEAT USA contract. Still pretty efficient.

The older oil units were pretty bullet proof. Just watch the chamber lining. It doesn't take long to burn through the steel side once the fiberglass lining wears out. Find a good oil guy and have him service the unit every year. When maintained they seem to last for ever and will not break down.

When it comes to efficiency don't worry about the oil furnace. Insulation doors and windows is where the biggest savings come from. Every thing else is just percentage points. Oh LED lighting is must as well.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You know, I think I like your brother's style!

But yeah, I'm damn envious of having the space to erect 2nd garages & other structures. But mainly, I'm after getting some distance between me & my neighbors. I like my neighbors. I'd just like them further away! :2razz:

Exactly. I like the privacy.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The older oil units were pretty bullet proof. Just watch the chamber lining. It doesn't take long to burn through the steel side once the fiberglass lining wears out. Find a good oil guy and have him service the unit every year. When maintained they seem to last for ever and will not break down.

When it comes to efficiency don't worry about the oil furnace. Insulation doors and windows is where the biggest savings come from. Every thing else is just percentage points. Oh LED lighting is must as well.

I pay Heat USA like $25 a year and I get free yearly maintenance plus they fix it if there is a problem. I can't remember ever paying.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You know, I think I like your brother's style!

But yeah, I'm damn envious of having the space to erect 2nd garages & other structures. But mainly, I'm after getting some distance between me & my neighbors. I like my neighbors. I'd just like them further away! :2razz:

He has the perfect set up. He can see the road but not hear it. He has enough grass for the kid to ride around on one of those ATV's. I just gave him my boat and trailer. A nice 15' old alumicraft flat bottom boat. I am going to get me something smaller. The small lake at my sisters property is next to a trolling motor and/or oars is all you need. Private and the fishing is great.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I pay Heat USA like $25 a year and I get free yearly maintenance plus they fix it if there is a problem. I can't remember ever paying.

Well that is great. Oil is a proven system. It works. Plus the government hasn't stepped in and tried to fix it yet. These new high efficiency natural gas units in the cities can cost more to maintain than they ever will save you in efficiency. Government thinks spending $1000.00 dollars to save 50 is a win.

 

[Chomsky]

He has the perfect set up. He can see the road but not hear it. He has enough grass for the kid to ride around on one of those ATV's. I just gave him my boat and trailer. A nice 15' old alumicraft flat bottom boat. I am going to get me something smaller. The small lake at my sisters property is next to a trolling motor and/or oars is all you need. Private and the fishing is great.

That's the biggest deal with rural properties. If you seclude yourself deep in your property, you have to provide and maintain (plow!) a hella' long private road. But if you locate near the front, to have a short private road to access the nearest public road, you lose that beautiful seclusion.

And yeah, sound travels far in those rural areas! I bet many city dwellers would be blown away to see how far road noise can travel, especially from multi-lane highways - and even worst - interstates! Especially the 18 wheelers.

As to privacy - I'm pretty extroverted & people loving in general and when I want to be, but I've got to have my times of solitude. Regardless of the days bustle and activities, I need a quiet place of solitude to lay my head down at night.

Neal Young said it best in, 'On the Beach',

"I need a crowd of people. But I can't face them day to day"

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I figured I would pick the brain of my fellow DP posters. Got slammed by the latest storm. Power out for over 2 days, $500 to replace the rear gutter (blew on to the roof). Looking to get a generator and I know nothing about them. 2200 square ft house but I need the well and well mate to be hooked up or we have no water. A coworker said a 5000 watt with an outlet from the box would do. Approx $800 for the outlet plus the cost of the generator. Don't know how accurate that is. Any help, advice would be appreciated. Thanks

You are getting a lot of good advice on this thread. I have a larger house, and when building I set up a separate panel for a generator with a manual transfer switch and then got an 8000 Kw Generac made in the US. I selected which circuits were in the generator and which were not. The ones that are not help notify us when the powers is restored.

I’d love to get a whole house but it is better to get more power than you need because a lighter load makes my gas last longer. As for what you put on it, get familiar with all your devices and count the watts—starting and running. That could impact what you turn on first.

We decided our main Tv room, the kitchen, the bedrooms, the fridges (3), the well pump, the tankless water heater, the boiler (doesn’t work because mine has a controller board which is too sensitive) and my cable router.

This has been a bad year so I invested in a wall AC because our 2 AC units are not on generator and probably couldn’t be. Also, the washer but not the dryer.

Make sure you have oil, filters and spark plugs and know how to use them. I had to figure out where the spark plug was when it wouldn’t start. My unit is gas and I keep stored ethanol free gas for standby and have 3 jugs of regular for filling. Before the wall unit was added, generator was lasting 12-13 hours on a tank.

Your main appliance is the fridge which should be ok for 2-4 hours without power. The freezer lasts 24 hours. During the summer without AC, you will be glad you can take a real shower.

I went 6 years after buying before needing the generator for the first time. That’s when I learned monthly running and maintenance checks were important.

Pick your location well, portables are louder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

That's the biggest deal with rural properties. If you seclude yourself deep in your property, you have to provide and maintain (plow!) a hella' long private road. But if you locate near the front, to have a short private road to access the nearest public road, you lose that beautiful seclusion.

And yeah, sound travels far in those rural areas! I bet many city dwellers would be blown away to see how far road noise can travel, especially from multi-lane highways - and even worst - interstates! Especially the 18 wheelers.

As to privacy - I'm pretty extroverted & people loving in general and when I want to be, but I've got to have my times of solitude. Regardless of the days bustle and activities, I need a quiet place of solitude to lay my head down at night.

Neal Young said it best in, 'On the Beach',

"I need a crowd of people. But I can't face them day to day"

That is the reason you leave or plant evergreen trees between your house and the road. Wind break on those cold days and great sound insulation. That is where the tractor comes in. If I move out on the farm I will definitely have a tractor with backhoe and loader. Clear snow cut grass and keep the road open going down to the lake. Even use it to bring the boat down to the lake.

 

[VanceMack]

I agree with the advice given re a quality Honda generator. You really dont need to run a whole house during an outage and the generator doesnt need to be running full time.

 

[JacksinPA]

I insisted that we have a whole-house generator installed hen we moved to our current location in suburban Phila. We settled on a 14kW Kohler powered by 2 big bottles of propane. It will run everything in the house except for the A/C. Longest we've gone on the genset was 36 hours. It is vital as if the service electric fails, our finished basement floods due to high water table. This happened during Sandy, before we moved in. Cost to repair/replace basement ( my office, oil-powered boiler): We estimate to be $10K. That's what the genset & propane cost, roughly. We have a service contract on the genset.

When the lights go out it takes about 20 seconds for the genset starter to kick on, then we have power. When lights go back on, you'd never know it if you weren't listening to the genset exhaust. All the internal electronics are sealed & require no maintenance.

I find Kohler to be more reliable than Generac Chinese sets sold by Home Depot. They are made in the USA.

Only problem we had was a dead battery caused by the design of the charging circuit which overcharged the battery at 14V instead of 12V, which boiled off the electrolyte overtime. They fixed that problem when they replaced the battery. New batteries last about 3 years & go from $150-175. We make it a point to get ours replaced every 3 years.

 

[PirateMk1]

Five thousand bucks is way too much.
A 2200 SF home with the typical 200 amp service is well served by a 3500 to 4000 watt rig, but if you have natural gas I urge you to pick a nat gas unit so that you don't have to go looking for fuel.

No, you will not be able to service ALL your electrical outlets but the fridge, computers, lights and what not will be okay.
Maybe even the air conditioning if you have a small central unit or window AC.

Be sure to install some Tripp-Lite POWER CONDITIONING units on every outlet served by the gennie.
Your expensive electronics don't do well with dirty power or square wave...they last longer on clean sine wave output and that's what a power conditioner does.

If you currently have battery uninterruptible power supplies, they already have power conditioning built in, even if the batteries no longer work.

I would also recommend a soft start of some kind for any high amp initial start items.

 

[PirateMk1]

Genrac has models that run on natural gas, FWIW. No idea on how well it works, but it came-up in my research when I was considering buying. But that's the option I was looking at.

Be careful with the natural gas while it sounds like and generally is a good idea, that is a service and depending on the nature of the outage you may be well served with a multi fuel unit that can take diesel or propane in addition to natural gas.

 

[PirateMk1]

Lucky you! On both counts!

Yeah if you're building, then spec'ing it right in sounds like the way to go. And I give you credit for building - you can put in accommodations that might make life easier over those years. I wouldn't under estimate that.

As for me, I'm not a country boy yet - and may never be. But as of late, I find I've got an urge to get a few acres around me!

You find you like your neighbors better when there is space between you.

I run a solar system that I moved from my old place in California. I run grid tied with a battery wall equivalent lots of used lead agm group 31 batteries and 17,500 kilowatts of solar panels (summer) and a heat powered generator system run from a combo of vacuum thermal and waste heat from a cogen micro turbine plant if it runs (winter). I am for all practical purposes grid independent. Solar works best if you can generate excess capacity to store for later use. Most everything except the vacuum tube panels and the solar panels with micro inverters, are used. I got plenty of power for the shop and home.

 

[PirateMk1]

Nine kilowatts is more than enough for the typical 5000 square foot home.
It's WAY more than the average 2000 SF home consumes for the most part.
A typical 2000 SF home can make it fine on a 3 kilowatt solar electric system unless it is 100 percent off grid.
Even then, since it is off grid, the homeowner usually designs a lot more efficiency into the home, like low voltage LED lighting, etc.

A grid tied 3kW system will satisfy the typical home that size without even breaking a sweat.

All the information you are giving is very location and lifestyle dependent. What you are giving wont work in the central valley especially in the late spring through early fall. It might work in New York, but I don't know. I have 17.5 kw solar with approximately 151kwh of lead acid battery bank usable capacity in a grid tied system that meets my needs most of the time in Montana. If I am running multiple machines in my shop I am pulling deep from the battery bank and eventually the grid. I am unusual but I know lots of people in the valley that are running 10k grid tie systems with a 13.5kwh power wall. That covers most of their bill most of the time. They dont have big CNC and plasma cutting machines like I do. They have the systems because PGE power is at 34 cents a kw at tier 4 levels and they almost always hit tier 4 half way to three quarters into the month without the grid tie solar system.

 

[PirateMk1]

I insisted that we have a whole-house generator installed hen we moved to our current location in suburban Phila. We settled on a 14kW Kohler powered by 2 big bottles of propane. It will run everything in the house except for the A/C. Longest we've gone on the genset was 36 hours. It is vital as if the service electric fails, our finished basement floods due to high water table. This happened during Sandy, before we moved in. Cost to repair/replace basement ( my office, oil-powered boiler): We estimate to be $10K. That's what the genset & propane cost, roughly. We have a service contract on the genset.

When the lights go out it takes about 20 seconds for the genset starter to kick on, then we have power. When lights go back on, you'd never know it if you weren't listening to the genset exhaust. All the internal electronics are sealed & require no maintenance.

I find Kohler to be more reliable than Generac Chinese sets sold by Home Depot. They are made in the USA.

Only problem we had was a dead battery caused by the design of the charging circuit which overcharged the battery at 14V instead of 12V, which boiled off the electrolyte overtime. They fixed that problem when they replaced the battery. New batteries last about 3 years & go from $150-175. We make it a point to get ours replaced every 3 years.

I suggest you get a Maxwell capacitor for the starter battery in addition to the normal battery. Its good reliable starting insurance. I use them in my vehicles. It improves starting performance tremendously and they last much longer, not to mention they are light.

Maxwell Technologies Ultracapacitors and Supercapacitors as a green, alternative energy resource

 

[post]

Wow that is a great price for 9000 watts. Thanks

A lot of great advice has been posted. Unfortunately, I did not read the thread before putting together the following, in reaction to first page comments about solar and the 9,000 watt, Harbor Freight, bargain. My solar "back up" knowledge & experience will be shared in a second post.

From the description on the Harbor Freight page for that particular model:

13 hours run time @ 50 percent load....

My first preference, if I could justify the cost, would be a Generac model, whole house, natural gas or, if unavailable large propane tank fueled,
standby generator. It must be installed to local code, requires a concrete pad, and building and electrical permits. There might be zoning or HOA restrictions.

I started in 2013 with this model: (I draw power into the house with 12 ga. 20 amp cap. 120 volt extension cords, two per generator, but inexpensive
devices (a grid isolation switch) can be added to most modern residential power panels, physically activated by the homeowner by connecting a power cord from
the generator during each power failure, permitting whole house access to your generators output, while cutting larger appliances to conform with your generator's
capacity and also conserving fuel.)

Links to a bassproshops page:
Access Denied
Champion Power Equipment 3550W Weekender Portable Generator

It is a pull start, quiet compared to competing models, and fuel efficient. It consumes 4 gal. gasoline in 13 hours at half load, which is only 1750 watts, output,
since it is rated at 3550 watts. IOW, the 9,000 watts, Harbor Freight model will be likely too loud to be positioned near your house for more than a few hours
and will likely consume at leasr 11 gal. of gasoline every 13 hours. Since they sit unused much of the time, the ethanol included in most regular gasoline will corroed or gum up the bowl of the carburator unless you fastidiously shut the fuel supply petcock as the shut-off method, so no fuel remains in the fuel system.
The fuel in the tank must be treated with a preservative called "Stabil", optimally with the more expensive, marine (boat engine) variety, or the tank drained, between extended, non-use periods.

If you purchase an electric start model, the battery will be similar to a ride-on mower, dry cell battery. Many portable generators with electric start also feature pull start back up.

So, you need to keep more than 20 gal. of gasoline on-hand, keep it fresh because the ethanol and summer pollution control additives in it can affect performance and the ethanol contains corrosive water. Many local codes discourage residential storage in excess of ten gallons of gasoline.

We experienced a sudden summer storm two years ago, power was out 72 hours and downed trees made this dead end street impassable. Ours was the only residence displaying lights in the evenings, experienced no spoiled foods, had AC in at least one room, and enjoyed TV and wifi internet. My point is you need to store at least two days gasoline supply and recycle it into your cars to keep a fresh inventory. I've purchased nine, fuel storage containers of 5 gal. each.

In 2016, I increased my back up power with this purchase.: the link is actually to homedepot.com
Access Denied
4,850-Watt/3,850-Watt Electric Start Dual Fuel Powered Portable Generator

I enjoy the electric start, fuel it with my gas grille propane tanks, keeping a second one full as a back up, so I usually have a 1-1/2 day supply, on hand.
Both your local gas station and propane vendor require grid power to dispense the fuels that they sell. I don;t know of one in my area that can operate without grid power, so I am emphasizing that you need to consider keeping your own inventory and propane does not need to be kept fresh and does not corrode the carburators of this type of generator. I ran both units during the weekend without power I described above.

 

[post]

Continued from my last, Off grid solar power is impractical except as a modest, reliable, last resort!

Some background, in the faint hope I do not seem a fanatic....

My experience and observations may not be applicable to your POV, economic resources, willingness to be inconvenienced, or priorities for reliability, but it can't hurt to share my experience influenced opinions.

I lived not far from the USMA (West Point) for several years before ending up in the southeast for the past two decades.

We lived without power for up to a week in that area of NY state, due to power line damage caused by a late spring snow storm of heavy wet snow. There seemed to be above average failures in that area, but never for more than a day.

Lightening strikes and intense spring to fall thunderstorms sometimes with high winds, are a southeast staple. I don't recall that power was lost for more than a full day, by 2012, when I began research on back up power sources. Winter ice storms have been known to result in week long power interruptions, but that still hasn't happened. Observing the northeast devastation of hurricane Sandy influenced me to put my new found knowledge to practical use.

Reports indicated residents of NJ, NY, and New England spent weeks with no power and struggled to find power sources to recharge their phones.

My experience with, and knowledge of, off-grid, solar back up power. If you plan to have seamless back up of what you rely on now from your on-grid power company, even using a gas stove and drying your laundered clothes on a clothes line, and foregoing air conditioning or electric home heating, it seems cost prohibitive to attempt and fuss with a full-sized, household backup solar system. Storage batteries are not supposed to be regularly discharged beyond 50 percent capacity. If you intend 10,000 watt solar collection capacity, you should have 20,000 watts of solar panels and double the amount of storage batteries you might need if you are indifferent to how long they will last. 50 panels of 15 sq. ft. area each will not fit on many residential roofs, and the entire system must be protected from damage and theft.

So, I started with small disaster preparedness steps. I purchased six, 6 volt golf cart, deep cycle conventional batteries, about 1,000 watts of compatible (with each other) solar panels, this solar charge controller, my most expensive single purchase, to date.:
https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar-CLASSIC-150-Environmental/dp/B007PHMSN8
MidNite Solar CLASSIC 150 Charge Controller, 150 Operating Voltage, Max Current Out 96 Amps

It is still a current model, seven years later.

Wired in series, in even numbers (pair, two pair, or three pair) the golf cart batteries put out 12 volts, and the solar charger and panels are adequate to keep the batteries charged except on cloudy days.

I purchased this inverter to convert the 12 volt direct current to 120 volts to power household lights or appliances.

https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-Inverter-Model-806-1220/dp/B002LGEMOQ
Xantrex PROWatt 2000 Inverter, Model# 806-1220

Seven years later, this is also still a current model.

The "cons" to solar, non-grid, backup power. It is emergency, fail safe power only, intended to maintain phones, laptops and a few light sources at night.
This modest, but decent quality solar system was my largest expense, and today will cost near $2,500.

The batteries should not be drawn down more than 50 percent before a full recharge, if you plan on long battery life. Each battery weighs 65 lbs., and I still have two of the original six that will charge to 100 percent, after seven plus years. I set mine up in a 2 pair (4 batteries) and this one-pair series.

Either bank of batteries will power a pair of LCD reading lamps through evening hours with power to spare for phone charging.

So, I'm limited in two ways.... if I want to add more battery banks, I need to add more solar panels, and additional or larger solar charge controller and 12 volt to 120 volt inverters, or a larger single inverter.

With my system, I mighr be able to power 3 or 4 LCD bulb lamps and a dorm room or home wet bar sized refrigerator.

IOW, unless your home lot consists of acres, preferably flat and you are a family of considerable means, the solar, off-grid back up system I've described is only adequate in regular use for a sailboat of perhaps 25 ft or a weekend camp of a tent or one-room cabin.

It is adequate to run an average home well pump, but not for heavy water use, and would consume all solar power I am equipped to capture and store on a sunny day.

 

[post]

Continued from my last...

Some details about expanding a modest, off-grid, solar back up system like the one I described.:

Even a 10,000 watt array of off-grid, solar panels, say 25 panels of 400 watt collection capacity each, woud not come close to replacing daily power demand of a middle class family of four in a residence of up to 2,000 square feet. There are higher tech, "gel" technology storage batteries, but they are much more expensive than golf cart deep cycle wet cells, and require high quality solar charge controllers, similar to the one I have. One of lower tech and quality at half the price of mine (nearly $700) would be adequate to maintain my six golf cart batteries.

A 12 volt to 120 volt inverter becomes impractical with a larger system, "O" gauge cable between my batteries and my 12 volt inverter is required.
"O" gauge is as thick as your thumb. A 24 volt inverter, for example requires half the wire gauge. To be sure, on the household current (120 volt output) output end of my inverter, there are two, 20 amp rated, conventional 120 volt outlets intended to power my lights, phones, and laptops, wifi, and cable modem.

The trade off is that 24 and 48 volt inverters are pricey and I would not consider powering one with less than 12 golf cart batteries, serially wired in groups of four, which, in that arrangement, put out 24 volts of DC current.

My 12 volt to 120 volt, 2,000 watt inverter can be purchased for about $350, versus :

Schneider had purchased the company that mfg. my inverter, Xantrex. The first arrived, DOA. Schneider immediately expedited
a replacement that has performed perfectly with very infrequent use.

Links to an Amazon page ...
Robot Check
Schneider Conext SW 4kW 120/240VAC 24VDC Inverter/Charger RNW8654024
5.0 out of 5 stars 2
$1,499.95

 

[Hari Seldon]

Continued from my last, Off grid solar power is impractical except as a modest, reliable, last resort!

Some background, in the faint hope I do not seem a fanatic....

My experience and observations may not be applicable to your POV, economic resources, willingness to be inconvenienced, or priorities for reliability, but it can't hurt to share my experience influenced opinions.

I lived not far from the USMA (West Point) for several years before ending up in the southeast for the past two decades.

We lived without power for up to a week in that area of NY state, due to power line damage caused by a late spring snow storm of heavy wet snow. There seemed to be above average failures in that area, but never for more than a day.

Lightening strikes and intense spring to fall thunderstorms sometimes with high winds, are a southeast staple. I don't recall that power was lost for more than a full day, by 2012, when I began research on back up power sources. Winter ice storms have been known to result in week long power interruptions, but that still hasn't happened. Observing the northeast devastation of hurricane Sandy influenced me to put my new found knowledge to practical use.

Reports indicated residents of NJ, NY, and New England spent weeks with no power and struggled to find power sources to recharge their phones.

My experience with, and knowledge of, off-grid, solar back up power. If you plan to have seamless back up of what you rely on now from your on-grid power company, even using a gas stove and drying your laundered clothes on a clothes line, and foregoing air conditioning or electric home heating, it seems cost prohibitive to attempt and fuss with a full-sized, household backup solar system. Storage batteries are not supposed to be regularly discharged beyond 50 percent capacity. If you intend 10,000 watt solar collection capacity, you should have 20,000 watts of solar panels and double the amount of storage batteries you might need if you are indifferent to how long they will last. 50 panels of 15 sq. ft. area each will not fit on many residential roofs, and the entire system must be protected from damage and theft.

Thank you for your posts. I am about a half hour from West Point. Close enough to hear the cannons go off the other day for new recruits I believe. We have been fortunate, no power outages for more than half a day since we moved here 19 years ago. Until this past storm when we went about 50 hours without. We have underground utilities in my development but the surrounding area is all above ground and surrounded by trees like you said. The propane seems interesting I think I will look into that. We use our grill extensively and have 2 tanks we rotate. I could easily get more and store them outside on the patio. I have solar panels already which supply about 70% of my electric needs, its also a nice hedge for future increases as my lease is fixed for another 13 years although we should be gone well before then. My neighbor has a portable gas generator and it was loud, he let use a port for our fridge, the 100 foot extension was like $100. Not sure the food was worth it, LOL! My main issue is the well and well mate to distribute the water and the boiler for heat and hot water. Now with Covid the LAN and internet are critical with the wife working from home (I know the cable lines go out as well) but what can you do. Thanks again.

 

[RAMOSS]

That's the biggest deal with rural properties. If you seclude yourself deep in your property, you have to provide and maintain (plow!) a hella' long private road. But if you locate near the front, to have a short private road to access the nearest public road, you lose that beautiful seclusion.

And yeah, sound travels far in those rural areas! I bet many city dwellers would be blown away to see how far road noise can travel, especially from multi-lane highways - and even worst - interstates! Especially the 18 wheelers.

As to privacy - I'm pretty extroverted & people loving in general and when I want to be, but I've got to have my times of solitude. Regardless of the days bustle and activities, I need a quiet place of solitude to lay my head down at night.

Neal Young said it best in, 'On the Beach',

"I need a crowd of people. But I can't face them day to day"

I can sometimes hear the trains, and the nearest train tracks are 8 miles from me.

 

[Chomsky]

I can sometimes hear the trains, and the nearest train tracks are 8 miles from me.

Interesting. The whistle (horn)? Or the train itself?

FWIW - visiting a suburb of my large metro area, I was able to hear an interstate several miles away, in the early evening.

 

[RAMOSS]

Interesting. The whistle (horn)? Or the train itself?

FWIW - visiting a suburb of my large metro area, I was able to hear an interstate several miles away, in the early evening.

The train itself. Whistle too, but the actual train. It has to be on still nights.

 

[Chomsky]

The train itself. Whistle too, but the actual train. It has to be on still nights.

Wow. Well, those wheels are pretty damn thundering loud. But I'm amazed at the distance it can travel. Lucky you. Sounds like you're in a pretty quiet area.

 

[RAMOSS]

Wow. Well, those wheels are pretty damn thundering loud. But I'm amazed at the distance it can travel. Lucky you. Sounds like you're in a pretty quiet area.

Right now, the various insect life is pretty loud. But, I don't hear cars