Antifa rioters smash up Tacoma

[snakestretcher]

No, im Anti-ter. Are you anti-ter? If you dont say you are, then you must support terrorism.

Govt statistics are at best,misleading.

Stunning logic there. If I don't say out loud that I'm against murder does that make me a supporter of murderers?

 

[snakestretcher]

umm, we are by supporting their arrest and prosecution?

Is that a statement or a question?

 

[OlNate]

The left wouldn’t unconditionally condemn the murder of a Trump supporter in Portland. So if something bothers you I will not condemn it.

That's some pretty impressive 3rd grade level logic you got there.

What you've basically saying is that all the folks on the left who did condemn that murder should change their mind.

 

[jonny5]

I am anti-violence and borderline pacifist, so obviously I'm anti-terrorism.

Great. Hope to see you at the next riot.

 

[Gaius46]

Its hardly meaningless when you have tens of thousands of protestors chanting it, and federal reps touting it. And then you have dozens of example of cities responding to it. "Blood for Oil" is a meaningless trope. Defund the police happened.

"






No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ( The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. )

Police powers are generally reserved to the state, but the states gave the federal govt plenty of police powers too.



And thats before you get to all the laws congress has passed like the FBI and DHS. If youre arguing unconstitutional then thats a different argument, but its pretty clear that writers intended for the union to have some power to ensure individual liberty was secured from all sources.

Sending federal LE or troops into a state to enforce state law is unconstitutional. It is violation of state sovereignty. The only exceptions are if the states ask for assistance or if there is a complete breakdown of local capability to enforce laws - which has not happened anywhere, selective enforcement does not constitute a breakdown in law enforcement.

I'm not sure why you quoted those passages from the constitution. None of them are relevant.

Congress shall have the power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

What happened at the capital was an insurrection - an attempt to overthrow the FEDERAL government. These rioters are not doing that. Congress cannot call up the National Guard to suppress them based on this clause.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

This does not help your argument. In fact it proves mine. It says the federal government is obligated to intervene in violent domestic uprising if asked by the state legislature or by the execute (the governor).

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

The privileges and immunities clause says the states cannot discriminate against citizens of other states. Why do you think it applies here? Neither does the privileges or immunities clause of Amendment 14.

On the actual meaning of all the clauses you quoted you might want to read up a little on what they actually mean. Numerous law school websites have that information. So does Congress' website.


On defund the police I don't care what some random BLM means by it. You're making the argument so what do you mean by it?
Do you mean "disband the police" which hasn't happened anywhere and won't. Or do you mean "budget cuts"? If you mean budget cuts then tell me what police departments, what was cut, and how has that affected their ability to do their jobs. If you're going to make an argument you need to back it up with something concrete not just say the words and expect anyone to be convinced.

 

[jonny5]

Thanks for illustrating, once again, that you totally missed the point of my post.

Still waiting for some debate. Ill help. Do you think the federal govt has a role to stop these groups from organizing and enacting violent protests?

 

[JMB802]

Still waiting for some debate. Ill help. Do you think the federal govt has a role to stop these groups from organizing and enacting violent protests?

My comment asked why some posters chose to click, read and share stories with hyperbolic and misleading thread titles. If you'd like to discuss, please respond. I have no wish to follow you down your rabbit holes.

 

[jonny5]

My comment asked why some posters chose to click, read and share stories with hyperbolic and misleading thread titles. If you'd like to discuss, please respond. I have no wish to follow you down your rabbit holes.

Perhaps you should start your own thread on that. The TOPIC is the antifa riots.

 

[JMB802]

Perhaps you should start your own thread on that. The TOPIC is the antifa riots.

Just to be clear, it is my understanding that you chose not to defend why you posted an article with a shortened, misleading and hyperbolic thread title.

Just for kicks, here are other article titles about the same incident.

Protests Sparked In Tacoma After Police Officer Drives Into Crowd
Protests erupt overnight in Tacoma after officer drove into a crowd
Protest erupts in Tacoma after officer drives police car through crowd, injuring 2 people
Destructive demonstrations in Tacoma after police officer drives through crowd

 

[Hypothetical]

Is that a statement or a question?

its a statement asking whether you knew that or not.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

"Normal protests from normal people"? Like the normal people who invaded your Capitol and murdered a cop? They're your compatriots; I don't see you condemning them.

It's flattering that you read all my posts but whether you do or not is irrelevant to the points raised. Do you understand them? If not I'll reword it to make it easier to understand.

 

[jonny5]

Just to be clear, it is my understanding that you chose not to defend why you posted an article with a shortened, misleading and hyperbolic thread title.

Just for kicks, here are other article titles about the same incident.

Protests Sparked In Tacoma After Police Officer Drives Into Crowd
Protests erupt overnight in Tacoma after officer drove into a crowd
Protest erupts in Tacoma after officer drives police car through crowd, injuring 2 people
Destructive demonstrations in Tacoma after police officer drives through crowd

Cool, any comments on the topic?

 

[OlNate]

Cool, any comments on the topic?

At this point this thread deserves to be flushed. Multiple people have attempted to discuss your topic with you, and you have dismissed any counter points as being off topic. You keep saying you want to debate...you should give it a shot, lots of people have shown up to give you a chance.

 

[Montgomery]

I think anyone with any power and/or ability to fix the root cause should be involved. Enough is enough. Fix your ****ing cops.

The film footage on the incident was as impactful as was the killing of George Floyd.

The tank in Tianammen square stopped before running over the protester.

 

[OlNate]

The film footage on the incident was as impactful as was the killing of George Floyd.

The tank in Tianammen square stopped before running over the protester.

I can't watch that stuff... I know I should, I just can't. Sticks with me too long.

 

[jonny5]

At this point this thread deserves to be flushed. Multiple people have attempted to discuss your topic with you, and you have dismissed any counter points as being off topic. You keep saying you want to debate...you should give it a shot, lots of people have shown up to give you a chance.

Any comments on the topic?

 

[jonny5]

The film footage on the incident was as impactful as was the killing of George Floyd.

The tank in Tianammen square stopped before running over the protester.

That one did. Thousands of other protestors were killed. Of course in Tacoma the police were responding not to a protest, but a 911 call about street racing. The riots started the next day damaging dozens of businesses.

 

[OlNate]

Any comments on the topic?

I tried...but you dismissed me because of my nationality. Interested now?

 

[jonny5]

I tried...but you dismissed me because of my nationality. Interested now?

Oh right, "Fix your ****ing cops" was part of your contribution. Sure lets talk about " I think anyone with any power and/or ability to fix the root cause should be involved. "

Who would that be? What can they do? Whats the root cause of peopel smashing random businesses windows?

 

[OlNate]

Oh right, "Fix your ****ing cops" was part of your contribution. Sure lets talk about " I think anyone with any power and/or ability to fix the root cause should be involved. "

Who would that be? What can they do? Whats the root cause of peopel smashing random businesses windows?

The root cause would be a demonstrable and statistical pattern of inappropriate use of violence by the police in general, as well as disproportionately towards people of color, over a long timeline.

In other words, fix your ****ing cops.

 

[Montgomery]

That one did. Thousands of other protestors were killed. Of course in Tacoma the police were responding not to a protest, but a 911 call about street racing. The riots started the next day damaging dozens of businesses.

The tank in Tianammen square stopped before running over the protester and there's no reason to think that other tanks didn't stop too.

China resorted to very firm and positive measures to prevent US led fomenting of violence against their communist system. They're lucky they did or they wouldn't have the powerful and successful system they have today.

China has most likely found the right political solution for a country with 1 1/2 billion people. It's capitalism with a communist government that ensures the country's wealth isn't horded into the hands of the few very wealthy.
America's brand of capitalism doesn't do that for the people.
It will be a new topic because it can't be discussed further here.

 

[jonny5]

The root cause would be a demonstrable and statistical pattern of inappropriate use of violence by the police in general, as well as disproportionately towards people of color, over a long timeline.

Statistically insignificant. In one study, no bias was found.

MergedFile (nber.org)

On the most extreme use of force – officerinvolved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account.

So whats the real cause? Media misinformation, hyperfocus on isolated incidents?

 

[Montgomery]

I can't watch that stuff... I know I should, I just can't. Sticks with me too long.

Yes, I feel the same way and wouldn't watch it more than once.
I felt worse after watching that than I did after watching the George Floyd murder.
That shouldn't have been the case but it was and that's why it's right up there with the Floyd murder on impact.

When a country sees that happening, there needs to be protests and the protests need to be escalated until they earn some resolution.
It's already gone too far for any modern democracy!

 

[jonny5]

The tank in Tianammen square stopped before running over the protester and there's no reason to think that other tanks didn't stop too.

China resorted to very firm and positive measures to prevent US led fomenting of violence against their communist system. They're lucky they did or they wouldn't have the powerful and successful system they have today.

China has most likely found the right political solution for a country with 1 1/2 billion people. It's capitalism with a communist government that ensures the country's wealth isn't horded into the hands of the few very wealthy.
America's brand of capitalism doesn't do that for the people.
It will be a new topic because it can't be discussed further here.

Point was over a 1000 people were murderd by the govt in Tianimen square. I get that you were just trying to use a extreme comparison to make a point, but its a bad one. The cop responded to a 911 call, was surrounded by people banging on his vehicle and prevented from leaving, and at best used exceccive force to escape.

The chinese sent in tanks to break up political protests for free speech.

 

[OlNate]

Statistically insignificant. In one study, no bias was found.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w22399/w22399.pdf

So whats the real cause? Media misinformation, hyperfocus on isolated incidents?

Cool. You got one study.

So do I:

Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement: Findings From the National Violent Death Reporting System, 17 U.S. States, 2009–2012

Several high-profile cases in the U.S. have drawn public attention to the use of lethal force by law enforcement (LE), yet research on such fatalities is limited. Using data from a public health surveillance system, this study examined the characteristics ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So, the true root cause is a demonstrable and statistical pattern of inappropriate use of violence by the police in general, as well as disproportionately towards people of color, over a long timeline.

Fix your ****ing cops.