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Anti-zionist/anti-semitc?

jamesrage

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For some reason I have this feeling that anti-zionism are no different than the anti-semitism.Alot of people who claim to be anti-zionist claim they are not anti-semitic even though they spew the same garbage.




If you look at some of these sites they spew the same rhetoric that the anti-zionist spew.


http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/english.htm

Zionist Massacres
Zionist Terrorism
Jewish Power
Zionism, Palestine
Comments on Jewish Power
Jewish War Against Iraq
The Protocols
Jewish War Against Lebanon
Jewish Racism
Jewish Propaganda
Jewish Racism against Blacks
Jewish Hypocrisy

http://www.davidduke.com/?p=129#more-129

“anti-Semitism.” The chronic media recital of the horrors of the Holocaust has made the term “anti-Semitic” morally equivalent to the endorsement of mass murder. The word itself shuts down reason and evokes heat rather than light. The word is flagrantly overused; it is even used against those who simply protest Israeli human rights violations against Palestinians.

snip..


They are taught - and many believe - that they are the “chosen of God,” which may be the ultimate expression of ethnic superiority.



Some of these people will try to say that this is legitmate criticism of Israel,But I am sure the racist who tried to smear black people as being ignorant, lazy or naturally motivated to commit crime have said the same thing.




This here is some interesting ariticles on anti-semitism.

http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_96.html

Who are the new anti-Semites?

The new anti-Semites do not publicly proclaim their desire to bring about a second Holocaust or to subject the Jews to mass murder or annihilation. The hatred is aimed against the state of Israel, which, according to the new anti-Semites, represents all that is evil in the world and which is the main violator of human rights and guilty of virtually every other abuse that can be conceived. This poison is now so widespread that a poll taken in Europe not too long ago found Israel to be the greatest menace to the peace of the world — far ahead of such murderous regimes as those of Iran or of North Korea.

The leaders and instigators of this new anti-Semitism are concentrated on the political left, its most active and vocal spokesmen being found in our prestige universities. Such is the anti-Zionist (anti-Semitic) focus of the left that, almost incomprehensibly, it includes a fair number of Jewish professors and other “intellectuals,” not just here in the United States, but even in Israel itself.

Those on the extreme left call for the abolition of the State of Israel outright, although they do not tell us what they propose to do with the five million Israeli Jews. They would presumably be left to the tender mercies of the Arabs, who would, of course, have no greater joy than to emulate or perhaps even to “improve” on the Nazi model and to give “final solution(!) to the Jewish problem” once and for all. That isn’t going to happen, of course, not because anybody in the world would lift a finger to prevent it, but because, fortunately, Israel is a very strong and most capable nation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism

Some analysts and Jewish groups believe that there is a distinctly new form of late 20th century anti-Semitism, often called new anti-Semitism, which borrows language and concepts from anti-Zionism, but which attacks Jews as a group, rather than Zionism as a movement. Some of these analysts controversially identify anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, arguing that anti-Zionism, "advocates denial of the right to self-determination of the Jewish people" (Matas 2005, p. 31).

snip..


New anti-Semitism

Main article: New anti-Semitism

In recent years some scholars of history, psychology, religion and representatives of Jewish groups, have noted what they describe as the new anti-Semitism, which uses the language of anti-Zionism and criticism against Israel to attack the Jews more broadly.

The European Commission on Racism and Intolerance formally defined some of the ways in which anti-Zionism may cross the line to anti-Semitism: "Examples of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include: Denying the Jewish people right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor; applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation; using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis; drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis; and holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel."
[edit]

Anti-Semitism in the 21st century

According to the 2005 U.S. State Department Report on Global Anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism in Europe has increased significantly in recent years. Beginning in 2000, verbal attacks directed against Jews increased while incidents of vandalism (e.g. graffiti, fire bombings of Jewish schools, desecration of synagogues and cemeteries) surged. Physical assaults including beatings, stabbings and other violence against Jews in Europe increased markedly, in a number of cases resulting in serious injury and even death.

On January 1, 2006, Britain's chief rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sacks, warned that what he called a "tsunami of anti-Semitism" was spreading globally. In an interview with BBC's Radio Four, Sacks said that anti-Semitism was on the rise in Europe, and that a number of his rabbinical colleagues had been assaulted, synagogues desecrated, and Jewish schools burned to the ground in France. He also said that: "People are attempting to silence and even ban Jewish societies on campuses on the grounds that Jews must support the state of Israel, therefore they should be banned, which is quite extraordinary because ... British Jews see themselves as British citizens. So it's that kind of feeling that you don't know what's going to happen next that's making ... some European Jewish communities uncomfortable." [17]

Much of the new European anti-Semitic violence can actually be seen as a spill over from the long running Israeli-Arab conflict since the majority of the perpetrators are from the large immigrant Arab communities in European cities. According to The Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism, most of the current anti-Semitism comes from militant Islamist and Muslim groups, and most Jews tend to be assaulted in countries where groups of young Muslim immigrants reside. [18]

Similarly, in the Middle East, anti-Zionist propaganda frequently adopts the terminology and symbols of the Holocaust to demonize Israel and its leaders. This rhetoric often crosses the line separating the legitimate criticism of Israel and its policies to become anti-Semitic vilification posing as legitimate political commentary. At the same time, Holocaust denial and Holocaust minimization efforts find increasingly overt acceptance as sanctioned historical discourse in a number of Middle Eastern countries.

The problem of anti-Semitism is not only significant in Europe and in the Middle East, but there are also worrying expressions of it elsewhere. For example, in Pakistan, a country without a Jewish community, anti-Semitic sentiment fanned by anti-Semitic articles in the press is widespread. This reflects the more recent phenomenon of anti-Semitism appearing in countries where historically or currently there are few or even no Jews.





So I ask the question if a person for example tries to smear another race is it not racism or in this case anti-semitism?
 
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There are anti-Zionistic Jews, does that make them anti-semitic?

Zionism is the belief in a state for Jews.

Anti-semitic means you dislike Jews.

Now look at the links you have posted, and you can clearly see that the posts are Anti-semitic, disguised as anti-Zionism.
 

jamesrage

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Australianlibertarian said:
There are anti-Zionistic Jews, does that make them anti-semitic?

It just makes them sellouts.Racist proably used sellouts to justify segregation back then

Zionism is the belief in a state for Jews.

Anti-semitic means you dislike Jews.
So thinking a group of people should be denied their country is not anti-zionism?



Now look at the links you have posted, and you can clearly see that the posts are Anti-semitic, disguised as anti-Zionism.

Anti-zionism and anti-semitism is really just the same thing.That is why the rhetoric sounds the same.
 

nkgupta80

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well zionism has been tied to some jewish radicalism, and thus gets a bad rep among people, even other jews. Yes a lot of groups try to hide their anti-semitism by using the word anti-zionist. However, people who are anti-zionist are not necessarily anti-semetic.
 

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Yeah, I believe that anti-zionism is not the same as anti-semitism, but there is a lot of overlap. I assume all anti-semites are anti-zionist. Many anti-Zionists are anti-semites. I also think that almost all holocaust deniers are anti-semitic.

The anti-Zionist Jews fall into a few categories: one major group is an ultra-religious group that is anti-Zionist because of something the bible says. Then there are also extremely left-wing anarchists who are against every organization, Israel just being one of them. So yes, these two extreme categories are anti-Zionist Jews, but this doesn't refute the fact that most anti-Zionists are anti-semites.
 

jamesrage

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nkgupta80 said:
well zionism has been tied to some jewish radicalism, and thus gets a bad rep among people, even other jews.
Every group has fakers in it.


Yes a lot of groups try to hide their anti-semitism by using the word anti-zionist. However, people who are anti-zionist are not necessarily anti-semetic.

If zionism is the belief in a state for Jews.Would not anti-zionism mean against the belief in a state for jews?Wouldn not that be the same as telling jews they can not have their county?If you were againt the United State existance,then that would make you an anti-American.Considering Israel is mostly a jewist state and if you are against a "state for jews" that would make you anti-semitic.
 

nkgupta80

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jamesrage said:
Every group has fakers in it.




If zionism is the belief in a state for Jews.Would not anti-zionism mean against the belief in a state for jews?Wouldn not that be the same as telling jews they can not have their county?If you were againt the United State existance,then that would make you an anti-American.Considering Israel is mostly a jewist state and if you are against a "state for jews" that would make you anti-semitic.

well zionism is more complex than that. zionism sprung from a movement of largely secular jews (many hardly practiced common jewish rites and traditions). Many of these jews got their ideas from communist and socialist movements. This pisses off many religious jews, who don't like the "blasphemous ways" in which these zionists factions would handle stuff.

So... jews who are anti-zionist have a valid reason for it... and are not necessarily anti-semetic.

On the other hand, non-jews who are anti-zionist these days, disagree with Israel overall. Its not that they don't like jews, they just don't support Israel in today's situation.
 

jamesrage

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nkgupta80 said:
well zionism is more complex than that. zionism sprung from a movement of largely secular jews (many hardly practiced common jewish rites and traditions). Many of these jews got their ideas from communist and socialist movements. This pisses off many religious jews, who don't like the "blasphemous ways" in which these zionists factions would handle stuff.

So... jews who are anti-zionist have a valid reason for it... and are not necessarily anti-semetic.



There are sellouts and fakes in every group and people who are only jewish in name are fakes.
On the other hand, non-jews who are anti-zionist these days, disagree with Israel overall. Its not that they don't like jews, they just don't support Israel in today's situation.

You mean they want to see Israel destroyed or given like candy to their arab nieghbors?[/PHP]
 

nkgupta80

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jamesrage said:
There are sellouts and fakes in every group and people who are only jewish in name are fakes.

Well then you're claiming that a majority of the zionists, and their founders were fakes...

You mean they want to see Israel destroyed or given like candy to their arab nieghbors?[/PHP]

some people who don't support israel believe that the UN shouldn't have created a state in that area in 1947 (or whatever the year was). Others are against the zionists who want to kick out all arabs. It all depends. You can't generalize anti-zionism with anti-semitism.. its simple as that. Zionism can refer to too many different groups.
 
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Zionism:
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

Semitism:
1.A Semitic word or idiom.
2.Semitic traits, attributes, or customs.
3.A policy or predisposition in favor of Jews

Therefore would it not be true to define Zionism as a semitic movement:
A policy or predisposition in favor of Jews

So to criticise Zionism is to criticise an aspect of Semitism and Jewish policy makers actions, but it is not the criticism of Semitism on a whole??

I personally think and have seen on various occasions that anti-semitic is a label applied to someone in order to direct the hate of the Semitic movement at them, or to discredit someone who has offered criticism of The State Of Israel, or Zionism in general, it works in this way to great effect as we can see with Iran recentley.
 

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Zionism is the Jewish national movement to re-establish the Jewish nation in Palestine. (Or what we call 'Palestine' these days).

Originally, in Chaim Weizmann's day, Zionism was a secularist and nationalistic interpretation of the aspirations of orthodox Judaism. It seems to have lost some of its historical meaning and become identified with all-out opposition to Arab settlement on the parts of Israel which can be claimed by ultra-religious Jews as the 'promised land'.

It is not anti-semitic to have reservations about 'extreme' Zionism; many secular Jews are troubled by similar doubts.
 

jamesrage

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nkgupta80 said:
Well then you're claiming that a majority of the zionists, and their founders were fakes...:
Just the jews who are anti-zionist.


some people who don't support israel believe that the UN shouldn't have created a state in that area in 1947 (or whatever the year was).

The british mandate of 1921.

It all depends. You can't generalize anti-zionism with anti-semitism.. its simple as that. Zionism can refer to too many different group.
If the "anti-zionist" are spewing what the racist are spewing then perhaps the anti-zionist are really anti-semitic.
 

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Mickyjaystoned said:
Zionism:
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

Semitism:
1.A Semitic word or idiom.
2.Semitic traits, attributes, or customs.
3.A policy or predisposition in favor of Jews

Therefore would it not be true to define Zionism as a semitic movement:

So to criticise Zionism is to criticise an aspect of Semitism and Jewish policy makers actions, but it is not the criticism of Semitism on a whole??

I personally think and have seen on various occasions that anti-semitic is a label applied to someone in order to direct the hate of the Semitic movement at them, or to discredit someone who has offered criticism of The State Of Israel, or Zionism in general, it works in this way to great effect as we can see with Iran recentley.


What complete nonsense. There is no such thing as "semitism", and if you knew the first thing about the etymology of the term antisemitism you would know that.

Your various bizarre accusations, outlandish conspiracy theories and steroeotpyical demonizatons of "zionism" on this board are clearly antisemitic. If you think that simply substituting the word "zionism" for Joooooo as you like do is going to fool people, then think again. It may fool some of your fellow stoners or those who lack critical thinking skills for other reasons, but it is transparant as all get up to most people.


Please go to your local library. Find *REAL* books that write about real history and culture. Just cruising the internet to find hate sites and then parroting what you find doesn't really cut it.
 
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Your various bizarre accusations, outlandish conspiracy theories and steroeotpyical demonizatons of "zionism" on this board are clearly antisemitic. If you think that simply substituting the word "zionism" for Joooooo as you like do is going to fool people, then think again. It may fool some of your fellow stoners or those who lack critical thinking skills for other reasons, but it is transparant as all get up to most people.

I wasn't gonna bother but:



The Origins Of Modern Zionism
- by Jack Manuelian, April 30, 2005 -

Modern Zionism has its roots in a 17th century false Jewish messiah by the name of Sabbatai Zevi who claimed to be the promised savior of the Jews that has come to establish the Jewish kingdom in the promised land known then as Palestine. Zevi was a very controversal figure, he not only trashed the Talmud but said to do opposite what God said to do in the Talmud. "Sin" and "guilt" were no more and everything and anything was allowed; the commandments of God in the Torah were now null because according to him the messianic age has arrived and he was the one who was going to redeem them.

As Jerry Rabow wrote in page 110 of his book "50 Jewish Messias" published by Gefen of Jerusalem, (source Barry Chamish): "Through all of this, Shabbatai Zevi continued to issue proclamations of the theological changes wrought by the coming of the messianic age. Shabbatai's new prayer was, 'Praised be He who permits the forbidden.' Since all things would be permitted in the age of the messiah, Shabbatai declared many of the old restrictions of the Torah no longer applicable. He abolished the laws concerning sexual relationships. He eventually declared that all of the thirty six major biblical sins were now permitted and instructed some of his followers that it was their duty to perform such sins in order to hasten the Redemption."

Zevi or Zvi was a kabbalist and occultist who deceived most of the Jews of his time and those who came after him. He was born on Aug. 9, 1626, in Smyrna, Turkey. In 1666 he converted to Islam with some of his followers and took the name Aziz Mehemet. Most of the Jews were disappointed but he told them that he had to become Muslim in order to convert the Muslims to Judaism, and then he turned around and told the Turks and the Sultan that he was to keep in close contact with the Jews in order to convert the Jews to Islam. Thus he was free to go wherever he liked and do whatever he wanted.

Zevi was betrayed to the Turks by another Jewish messiah from Poland. Zevi revealed to this Polish messiah the prophecy given by his close associate, Nathan Ghazzati the prophet, that Zevi was destined to become the ruler of the Ottomam Empire. Instead, Zevi was exiled to a small village in Albania were he died. But the followers of Shabbataism indeed became the real rulers of modern Turkey, albight in an invisible subtle way.

Zevi's influence among the Jews did not die with his death, many still believed this wizard of deception who legitimized deception as a mean to achieve one's goals. Rebbe Berechiah, an extremist, succeded Zevi and took over his movement of Shabbataism.

Barry Chamish, in his article "The Deutsch Devils," (December 31, 2003), posted in his web-site (barryChamish.com), says that "the Shabbatai followers continued their hidden life in the Turkish sect of the Donmeh, whose activities continue to this day, as reported extensively this year, even by the straid Jerusalem Post. One of the Donmeh followers was Jacob Frank (1726-1726), who would transform Europe and the world into a Shabbataian hell barely a century later."


Jacob Frank

Jacob Frank succeeded Rebbe Berechiah and in eighteen century brought the Donmeh ideaology To Europe. He made an alliance near/in Frankfurt, Germany, with Jesuit Adam Weinhaupt (founder of the Illuminatti and the usurper of the Freemasonic lodges worldwide, specially that of England and Scotland) and the Rothschild empire.

Barry Chamish, in his above mentioned article, mentions Rabbi Antelman saying in his book To Eliminate the Opiate: "A movement of complete evil now took hold. The Jesuits' goal was the destruction of the Protestant Reformation leading to a return of one pope sitting in judgement on all mankind. The Rothschilds goal was to control the wealth of the planet. And the Frankist vision was the destruction of Jewish ethics to be replaced by a religion based on the exact opposite of God's intentions [or high-class Satanism]. When these factions blended, a bloody war against humanity, with the Jews on the front lines, erupted."

In the book "The Messianic Idea in Judaism" by the Jewish professor Gershon Scholem (1971 edition, page 126) the author writes about Jacob Frank: "In all his actions [he was] a truly corrupt and degenerate individual" and as "one of the most frightening phenomena in the whole of Jewish history."

Cont...........
 
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Continued.................

Jacob Frank considered himself to be another messiah. He claimed to be an incarnation of the the Jewish patriarch Jacob. He ordered his 13,000 followers to become Catholics and infiltrate the Catholic church. He referred to the Catholics as the "Esau," the brother of biblical Jacob while he and his followers were the biblical Jacob. To the Christian Catholics he told that it was time for a reconciliation between "Jacob" and "Esau." While he told his followers secretly that as Jacob deceived Esau in the story of the Bible, so by the way of deception we will establish a Jewish anti-christ kingdom in Palestine.

Rabow, in page 130 of his book mentions: "The Frankists also become involved in international political intrigue, and sent secret emissaries to the Russian government and the Eastern Orthodox Church offering to help in the overthrow of Poland and the Catholic Church."

Jerry Rabow gives more details in his "50 Jewish Messiahs" (source Barry): "He [Frank] extended the paradoxical teachings of Shabbati Zvi that the coming of the messianic age had transformed sexual prohibitions of the Bible into permissions and even obligations. According to Frank, engaging in sexual orgies now became the means to purify the soul from its sins. Debauchery became theraphy...Frank convinced his followers that the only way for their special form of Judaism to survive was for them to outwardly become Christians, just as the Donmeh had descended into the world of Islam...In February, 1759, the Frankists told the [Catholic] Church they were ready to be baptized."

On page 121 of Rabow's book, it is mentioned: "The Donmeh now converted the Shabbatain Purim into an annual orgy, when members exchanged spouses for a ceremony called 'extinguishing the lights.' The Donmeh justified their Purim orgies, and their regular practise of sharing wives and engaging in other sexual activities, by citing biblical precedants."

The Jewish Encyclopedias defines Donmeh as "the Turkish word for 'apostate' and refers to the Jews of the Near East who followed Sabbatai Zevi into Islam in 1666, but secretly remained Jews who continued practicing Jewish rituals but worshiped Sabbatai as the Messiah and incarnation of God."

Another researcher said: "The Donmeh showed great public affection with Islam but amongst themselves entirely rejected and even despised Islam." There is no need to say that they also in secret hated and despised more the Christians of the Ottoman Empire. Those same "Turkish" Donmeh were the ones that were in power in Turkey during WW1 when the Armenian Genocide occured. They were the visible rulers of the Ottoman Empire and they carried out and gave orders for the slaughter --in a most unimaginable barbaric way and according to plans they had-- of almost the whole Christian population of Asia Minor: One and half million Armenians, half a million Greeks and Greek Pontians, and half a million Assyrians and Caldeans.

The Turkish author, Mevlan Z. Rifat, was referring to this Donmeh sect by his words "a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect," when he wrote in his book "Inner Folds of the Ottoman Revolution" 1929.-- "The Armenian genocide was decided in August 1910 and October 1911 by a Young Turk committee composed entirely of displaced Balkan Jews in the format of a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect, including Tallat, Enver, Behaeddin Shakir, Jemal, and Nazim posturing as Muslims. It met in the Rothschild-funded Grant Orient loge in now Greek Salonika. No wonder the infrastructure was in place by August by August, 1914, in Erzerum for the Great Massacres, almost three months before Turkey entered the Great War. During World War I and ever since, Jews have held prominent positions in the Turkish government, including three presidents, Ataturk, Inonu, and Bayar." No known English translation exist of Rifat's book, however it was translated to Armenian in 1939.

The Hebrew scholar, Avrum M. Ehrlick, writes in his book "Sabbatean Messianism As Proto-Secularism" (source, Berry's article: Kerry, Gaza and the New Sabbatean Holocaust): "Dr Nazim, Nuzhet Faik, Mustafa Arif, Muslihiddin Adil, Sukru Bleda, Halide Edip Adivar and Ahmet Emin Yalman were all active in the Young Turks and of Donme families. Mehmet Kapanci (1839-1924) who was a mayor of Salonica and a well-known banker funded the C.U.P [ some Armenians were masons and were part of the Committee of the Union and Progress Party before the Genocide happened ] and was a Donme. Other Jews active in the Young Turks were Nissim Mazliah from Izmir and Vitali Faradji, Moise Cohen (later called Munis Tekinalp) who was an active Jew and once rabbinical student who turned to business and actively asserted a proud Turkish identity along with Zionist sentiments...It is curious that Israelís first and second Prime Ministers, David Ben Gurion and Moshe Sharett and her second president Yitzchak Ben Zvi had lived and studied in Istanbul and embraced the concept 'lehitatmen', Hebrew for 'to become an Ottoman'. Ben Zvi is alleged by some to be descendant of a Sabbatean family. Sharett served in the Ottoman army in WW1. Ben Gurion gave up Russian citizenship for Ottoman citizenship, something many others in Palestine were afraid to do. Israeli Presidents Ben Zevi, Zalman Shazar and to a lesser degree Yitzchak Navon became students of Ottomanism. Mehmet Cavit Bey (1875-1926) was one of the most significant Donme political figures. He was active in the revolution [of 1908] as a highly articulate editor of a tabloid and professor of finance and was three times Finance Minister of Modern Turkey until his execution for his alleged role in the assassination attempt of Ataturk. It is believed that Cavit Bey was an ardent Zionist and saw the advantages for Turkey in the Jewish settlement of Palestine."

Avrum Ehrlich elaborates in more details in his same book: " The extent to which Jews were involved in the Young Turk revolution is debated, some arguing that Jews and Donme dominated the Committee of the Union and Progress Party (C.U.P) which gained control of the State. Others argue that this was anti-Semitic rhetoric and exaggerated and that while the Jews supported the revolution on a grass roots level, they were not highly represented in the upper echelons of the party. Indeed British diplomats did report to the home office that a Jewish-Masonic conspiracy was at work favoring the revolution. The Donme are believed to have been equally involved in the revolution but exact details are less known due to a number of reasons...It was via the Masonic lodges that the Donme, the Jews, Bektashi and secularists who were less accepted in mainstream society were able to meet on an equal footing, many of them becoming major instruments of the revolution...Whether the suspicions that Masonry is responsible for sedition and subversive activities are true or not, in this context they were a convenient home for the revolution, providing lodges and personnel, secrecy and structures for the revolution. The Donme thrived in the Masonic environment, allowing them to be both secretive and influential, maintaining their religious ideas in a non-dogmatic atmosphere. Bridging the gap between the Jews and the Muslims, they seemed to represent the happy medium of the secular Young Turk revolution. Even today Donme are involved in the Masonic Lodges ofTurkey."

Barry Chamish believes that the Armenian Genocide was a dry run for the Jewish Holocaust. Berry is a former Israeli military man turned to investigative reporter who is warning his fellow Jews about a coming Second Holocaust of the Jews in Israel proper. This time the Arabs and Muslims playing the role that the Nazis played during WW2.

Barry's research lead him to the fact that basically both the planners and instigators of the Armenian Genocide of WW1 and the Jewish Holocaust of WW2 were the same entities and that those same entities are planning another holocaust of the Jews during the coming WW3, which is going to be ignited in the middle east.

Do not call the author of this article an anti-Semite, he will be the first to come to the help of any Jew whose life is in peril. Also, he is not a hate-monger, his heart is full of love. He is not a liar either, he will not lie intentionally; he is an old man now whose father survived the Armenian Genocide 90 years ago and he is trying to find out what really happened, because justice on earth has not been done yet concerning the Armenian Genocide and the issue will never die. It can not be swept under the rug as the Turks and their allies are trying to do.

As President Putin said during his first visit to Israel: "In the 21st Century, there can be no place for xenophobia, anti-Semitism or other forms of racial or religious intolerance. This is not only our debt to the millions who dies in the gas chambers [and may I add, in the killing fields of historical Armenia], it is our duty to future generations."

THIS ARTICLE IS NOT COPYRIGHTED, IT MAY BE REPRODUCED IN ANY FORM AND MEDIA.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/origins-of-modern-zionism.htm

What ya think of that then Gardener?

I know you love trying to make me angry by insulting my intelligence, but you are an insult to intelligence everywhere in the way you blindly align yourself with the goals and deciet of Zionism.

I have a gigabyte of links on zionism so please ask if you want some more.
 
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The Armenian Genocide:

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocidefaq.html

Who was responsible for the Armenian Genocide? [top of list]
The decision to carry out a genocide against the Armenian people was made by the political party in power in the Ottoman Empire. This was the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) (or Ittihad ve Terakki Jemiyeti), popularly known as the Young Turks. Three figures from the CUP controlled the government; Mehmet Talaat, Minister of the Interior in 1915 and Grand Vizier (Prime Minister) in 1917; Ismail Enver, Minister of War; Ahmed Jemal, Minister of the Marine and Military Governor of Syria. This Young Turk triumvirate relied on other members of the CUP appointed to high government posts and assigned to military commands to carry out the Armenian Genocide. In addition to the Ministry of War and the Ministry of the Interior, the Young Turks also relied on a newly-created secret outfit which they manned with convicts and irregular troops, called the Special Organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa). Its primary function was the carrying out of the mass slaughter of the deported Armenians. In charge of the Special Organization was Behaeddin Shakir, a medical doctor. Moreover, ideologists such as Zia Gokalp propagandized through the media on behalf of the CUP by promoting Pan-Turanism, the creation of a new empire stretching from Anatolia into Central Asia whose population would be exclusively Turkic. These concepts justified and popularized the secret CUP plans to liquidate the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire. The Young Turk conspirators, other leading figures of the wartime Ottoman government, members of the CUP Central Committee, and many provincial administrators responsible for atrocities against the Armenians were indicted for their crimes at the end of the war. The main culprits evaded justice by fleeing the country. Even so, they were tried in absentia and found guilty of capital crimes. The massacres, expulsions, and further mistreatment of the Armenians between 1920 and 1923 were carried by the Turkish Nationalists, who represented a new political movement opposed to the Young Turks, but who shared a common ideology of ethnic exclusivity.
 
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Barry Chamish believes that the Armenian Genocide was a dry run for the Jewish Holocaust. Barry is a former Israeli military man turned to investigative reporter who is warning his fellow Jews about a coming Second Holocaust of the Jews in Israel proper. This time the Arabs and Muslims playing the role that the Nazis played during WW2.

Barry's research lead him to the fact that basically both the planners and instigators of the Armenian Genocide of WW1 and the Jewish Holocaust of WW2 were the same entities and that those same entities are planning another holocaust of the Jews during the coming WW3, which is going to be ignited in the middle east.

This website will tell you alot about Zionism

http://www.barrychamish.com

Jack Abramoff, “Super Zionist”
Friday January 06th 2006, 8:53 am



As usual, the corporate media is ignoring the larger picture, this time in regard to the criminal Jack Abramoff. Sure, Abramoff is a political sleazoid who “defrauded his Indian tribal clients of millions of dollars and used improper influence on members of Congress,” as the Washington Post explains. “Tribes represented by the lobbyist contributed millions of dollars in casino income to congressional campaigns,” including the Bush administration and the poster child of the Republican party, Tom DeLay, aka The Hammer. But, as the blogger Juan Cole, professor of History at the University of Michigan, tells it Abramoff represents something far more sinister and threatening: he is a “super-Zionist,” according to Mike Issikoff of Newsweek, and not only did he spread his illicitly gained money around the halls of Washington, but the illegally occupied territories of the West Bank as well.

“Abramoff’s dense network of illicit finances and phony charities might end some political careers in the United States,” writes Cole. “But the investigation into his activities by the FBI also shed light on the ways in which rightwing American Jews have often been involved in funding what are essentially terrorist activities by armed land thieves in Palestinian territory…. Indeed, it was this terror funding of Israeli far right militiamen that tripped Abramoff up, since the FBI discovered that he had misled Indian tribes into giving money to the Jabotinskyites, and then began wondering if he had defrauded the tribes in other ways.” In other words, as Cole points out, the “Super Zionist” Abramoff scammed a long ago “dispossessed indigenous people” to fund the current dispossession of another people.

In fact, Abramoff’s sleaziness is so brazen and off the charts as to be quite remarkable. As Issikoff reported last May, Abramoff funneled $140,000 from a charity to benefit inner-city youths to rabid Zionist Israeli settlers in the West Bank colonial outpost of Beitar Illit. “Among the expenditures,” Issikoff notes, “purchases of camouflage suits, sniper scopes, night-vision binoculars, a thermal imager and other material described in foundation records as ’security’ equipment,” but as we know (consistently underplayed by the Zionist-friendly corporate media) this sort of equipment is used by the rabid land-grabbing settlers to attack and often kill Palestinians, including Palestinian children. In other words, Jack Abramoff—if the FBI allegations are correct—is guilty of facilitating mass murder of Palestinian Arabs, not surprising since that’s what “super Zionists” do and have done for more than sixty years.

Abramoff spokesman Andrew Blum told Issikoff that his boss “is an especially strong supporter of Israel and has tried to find ways to help Israelis and others to be less susceptible to terrorist attacks.” Of course, “terrorist attacks” is code for the Palestinians defending themselves (and retaliating) against the encroachment and violence of Jack’s sociopathic friends who invade and shoot up Arab villages with Uzis (often courtesy of the Israel Defense or rather Occupation Forces) and “shoot solar panels on roofs of buildings, torch automobiles, shatter windowpanes and windshields, destroy crops, uproot trees, abuse merchants and owners of stalls in the market,” and other various forms of terrorist activity (see B’Tselem for more disgusting details).

It should be no secret to those who pay attention that extremely (and fanatically) strong supporters of Israel control the foreign policy of the United States government. Unfortunately, a whole lot of Americans don’t pay attention. It takes an Israeli commentator to point out the unvarnished truth: the Straussian neocons, Akiva Eldar wrote in Haaretz, “are walking a fine line between their loyalty to American governments and Israeli interests.” Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist, believes there is little difference between the neocons and the Jabotinsky Zionists in Israel. “I have absolutely no proof that the Bushies got their ideas from [Ariel Sharon]. But the style is the same,” writes Avnery. Of course, all of this is about as obvious as the nose on your face, regardless of the herculean efforts of the corporate media to obfuscate the truth.

Jack Abramoff, “super Zionist,” is emblematic of the indisputable fact that Jabontinsky Likudites have subverted our government, although the corporate media would have you believe all of this is simply a garden variety corruption scandal. Moreover, it should come as no surprise that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee is able to steal American secrets and fork them over to Israel and this act of treason is essentially little more than a blip in the corporate media news cycle. As Juan Cole notes elsewhere, AIPAC has a virtual stranglehold over the government in the United States:

All this can happen because there is a vacuum in U.S. political discourse. A handful of special interests in the United States virtually dictate congressional policy on some issues. With regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and a few allies have succeeded in imposing complete censorship on both houses of Congress. No senator or representative dares make a speech on the floor of his or her institution critical of Israeli policy, even though the Israeli government often violates international law and UN Security Council resolutions (it would violate more such resolutions, except that the resolutions never got passed because only one NSC member, the U.S., routinely vetoes them on behalf of Tel Aviv.) As the Labor Party in Israel has been eclipsed by the Likud coalition, which includes many proto-fascist groups, this subservience has yoked Washington to foreign politicians who privately favor ethnic cleansing and/or aggressive warfare for the purpose of annexing the territory of neighbors.

In essence, the “proto-fascist groups” in Israel and burrowed deeply inside the Bush administration are in the process of subverting the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, as the NSA “scandal” regarding massive snooping of Americans indicates. Unfortunately, most Americans are blissfully unaware of the true nature of these crimes, as they are unaware of the obvious fact the “war” in Iraq was waged in the name of Israel, a small outlaw nation where people who think and act like Jack Abramoff are the rule and not the exception.

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=181
 
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The Case Against Israel
By MICHAEL NEUMANN
caseneumann.jpg



Editors' Note: This month CounterPunch Books publishes Michael Neumann's The Case Against Israel, a bracing and tightly argued counterblast to the nonsense peddled by Alan Dershowitz in The Case For Israel. What follows is Neumann's core thesis. We strongly encourage CounterPunchers to order this book, either through this site or you can Call Becky Grant or Deva Wheeler at 800-840-3683 or email us. AC/JSC.

What matters for an understanding of the Israel/Palestine conflict is what the expression 'a Jewish state' would mean to any reasonable person. What, in particular, could the Palestinians reasonably expect when they heard that such a state was to be established in Palestine?

The state itself--the human community--is, everywhere in the world, an absolute dictator bound neither by morality nor by law. Even in the most impeccable democracy, there are ways to institute anything humans can do to one another. Frequently, as in the case of the democratic Weimar Republic of Germany, just invoking emergency legislation is quite enough to open the gates of hell.

For the Zionists to demand a state, any state, was therefore no small thing for anyone--like the Palestinians--falling within its proposed boundaries. But what the Zionists demanded was a Jewish state. Whether this was racism is not of any immediate concern. For one thing, to say that something is racist is not, for many people, immediately to say that it is unjustified: there are those, for instance, who accept affirmative action as 'reverse' racism yet still defend it. For another, the project might have begun as racist yet outgrown its racism by instituting sufficient protections for non-Jews. Or it might not have outgrown it altogether, but exhibited a form of racism that, though reprehensible, was not particularly virulent. It, therefore, does not seem particularly fruitful to examine whether Zionism was racism.

When a state is described in relation to the territory it controls, its ethnic character is open. The French state is not necessarily a state for some ethnic group called Frenchmen, just as the Belgian or Yugoslav or Jamaican state weren't states for ethnic groups of that name. But a Catholic state would be a state run by Catholics; a black state would be a state run by blacks; a heterosexual state would be run by heterosexuals. This could hardly be clearer: what would be Catholic or black or heterosexual about a state not run by at least some members of those groups?

When, as in the post-World-War-I era, the ideology of self-determination added to the picture, the expectation develops further. Now it is that ethnic states would be run not just by members of their ethnic groups, but in some sense by those ethnic groups themselves. At the very least, such states would be governed in the name of those group members in the area. This would amount to something more than a formality. Thus, an Armenian state would be not simply have Armenian rulers. These rulers would truly govern in the name of Armenians.

They would not just claim to act for their Armenian subjects or citizens, but would genuinely rule on their behalf, that is, for their benefit. The Armenian inhabitants might--and from Wilson's standpoint, would--be governed democratically, by themselves. If not, one would hope and expect that they would be governed for themselves, or for, in the interests of, Armenians as a whole.

A Jewish state would, therefore, be a state run by and for Jews. In such a state, Jews would be sovereign. The state would be run in their interests.

For non-Jews to expect as much was and is, therefore, entirely reasonable. Only a consistent, ongoing, highly public campaign to explain that this was certainly not going to happen would be sufficient to dispel this expectation. Nothing remotely like that occurred. So, it is worth reviewing what living under Jewish sovereignty must mean.

It means that Jews have a monopoly on violence in the areas they control. The perceived legitimacy of this monopoly need go no further than a settled expectation familiar to Star Trek fans: resistance is futile. A Jewish state is simply a state where Jews are firmly in control and where that much is recognized. Within its borders, Jews hold the power of life and death over Jews and non-Jews alike. That is the true meaning of the Zionist project.

If that's what the project is and was, there are a lot of things it wasn't. The Jews who came to Palestine as individuals and in small groups had various motives. But the overall direction of the Zionist movement, the ultimate goal to which all these individuals and groups would be directed and the one which it would in fact achieve, is something else again. Most accounts of the settlement do not focus on this ultimate purpose, and are therefore misleading. The Zionists and their camp followers did not come simply to settle. They did not come simply to 'find a homeland', certainly not in the sense that Flanders is the homeland of the Flemish, or Lappland of the Lapps. They did not come simply to 'make a life in Palestine'. They did not come simply to find a refuge from persecution. They did not come to 'redeem a people'. All this could have been done elsewhere, as was pointed out at the time, and much of it was being done elsewhere by individual Jewish immigrants to America and other countries. The Zionists, and therefore all who settled under their auspices, came to found a sovereign Jewish state.

In this state, however tolerant, however easygoing, however joyful, however liberal, Jews would always have the final say, on everything. Affairs would be run in the interests of whatever its rulers or inhabitants considered the interests of the Jewish people. Within that state, the final decision on how much force was to be used to advance those interests was entirely in the hands of its Jewish occupants. This does not have to mean that non-Jews had no representation, no say at all. It does not mean that non-Jews had no civil rights, or that their human rights would necessarily be violated. But it does mean that--since it is the essence of a Zionist state to be Jewish, run by and for Jews--things would always be arranged so that sovereignty remained in Jewish hands. This might be by law or it might be by political manipulation; it might be de jure or de facto. So it would be for Jews alone to decide whether non-Jews had civil rights, whether their human rights would be honored, indeed whether they would live or die. The purpose of establishing a sovereign Jewish state may or may not have been domination; that doesn't matter. That would certainly be the effect of its establishment.

What then of the claims that Zionism wasn't necessarily the demand for a sovereign Jewish state? Certainly, there were people who called themselves Zionists and who demanded something else, though what it was always remained obscure. There was talk of a state; its mechanisms never clearly defined. There was talk of a homeland guaranteed by international powers, or simply a homeland. It would be correct to say that not all Jewish settlers demanded a Jewish state, and that some of these settlers considered themselves Zionists. It would be incorrect to say that the Zionist project or enterprise was anything less than an attempt to establish a Jewish State.

Continued.........
 
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cont.........

In the first place, we have seen that a Jewish state was the objective of the Zionist leadership and the mainstream Zionist movement. Second, by the time 'nonexclusive' Zionism had become visible, in the 1920s, its notions of cooperation with the Palestinians had already become unworkable. Too much blood had been shed: the 1921 Jaffa riots had taken 200 Jewish and 120 Palestinian lives, followed in 1929 by the killing of 207 Jews and 181 Palestinians in Hebron. A contemporary Jewish comment on the first serious anti-Jewish riots, in 1920, already asserts that in Palestine there was a general understanding that Zionism would mean a Jewish state, and that this understanding ushered in bloodshed:

"...we all know how the [Balfour] Declaration was interpreted at the time of its publication, and how much exaggeration many of our workers and writers have tried to introduce into it from that day to this. The Jewish people listened, and believed that the end of the galush [exile] had indeed come, and that in a short time there would be a 'Jewish state.' The Arab people too... listened, and believed that the Jews were coming to expropriate its land and do with it what they liked. All this inevitably led to friction and bitterness on both sides, and contributed to the state of things which was revealed in all its ugliness in the events at Jerusalem last April [1920]. " (Ahad Ja'Am [Asher Ginzberg], "After the Balfour Declaration", 1920, reprinted in Gary Smith, ed., Zionism: The Dream and the Reality, London 1974.)

The British showed as little capacity or indeed inclination to curb the ethnic violence as they were to show in India and many other possessions. I know of no case in which cooperation between ethnic communities followed anytime soon on massacres of this scale. Third, even most 'nonexclusive' Zionists were not distinguished by an explicit renunciation of a Jewish state, but rather by a commitment to partition Palestine rather than go for the whole thing. By then, the Palestinians correctly saw that the main tendency of Zionism was to create a Jewish state in Palestine, the intentions of a tiny nonexclusive minority with nebulous plans for some implausibly cooperative two-people government had no point of contact with the political realities.

This is probably why the 'nonexclusives' remained, in the words of Norman Finkelstein, "numerically weak and politically marginal."

Michael Neumann is a professor of philosophy at Trent University in Ontario, Canada. Professor Neumann's views are not to be taken as those of his university. His book What's Left: Radical Politics and the Radical Psyche has just been republished by Broadview Press. He contributed the essay, "What is Anti-Semitism", to CounterPunch's book, The Politics of Anti-Semitism. This essay is excerpted from Neumann's new book, The Case Against Israel. He can be reached at: mneumann@trentu.ca.

Finally Available
from CounterPunch Books!
The Case Against Israel
By Michael Neumann
http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann01262006.html
 
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It's official Zionism Is Not Judaism!!!

http://www.ladah.org/article48.htm

Dear Mike:

I read your article at http://www.counterpunch.org/ladah03052003.html. The grief felt by those of us who are Orthodox Jews opposed to the abominable heresy of Zionism is multiplied in view of the implications of a war in Iraq rooted in the fact of Zionism being the source of all problems going on in the Middle East. As you will see from the websites indicated below, Zionism is a despicable heresy and desecration of Judaism in every single respect.

The Zionists do not represent anything Jewish, and are, in fact, the enemies of Judaism. They will have to account to G-d himself for all their crimes and sins against Jew and Palestinian. May G-d have mercy on all of us in these dark times. The websites are:

www.nkusa.org, www.jewsagainstzionism.com, www.netureikarta.org,
www.jewsnotzionists.org, www.netureikartauk.org.

Regards,

David



March 8, 2003

Dear David,

Thank you for your message which you sent a few days ago in response to my recent article in Counterpunch. It is always a pleasure to hear from a person true to his or her faith, especially to point out that Zionism is not Judaism.

Your comments and the comments contained in the various web sites that you recommended on Neturei Karta were a pleasure to read. They reminded me of a time when I was in college in the early 1960s. During those days, my heroes and favorite speakers on the Palestinian question were two Jewish scholars and one Palestinian scholar, all of whom had the greatest respect for Jewish opposition to Zionism. The two Jewish Scholars were Rabbi Elmer Berger and Dr. Alfred Lilienthal; the Palestinian scholar was Dr. Fayez Sayegh. These courageous men were not afraid to speak what they thought of Zionism and were not intimidated by the constant threats they received. Even today I come across some writings by sometimes obscure, but at times prominent, Zionists who express nothing but contempt for these scholars because they spoke the truth and because of their stand against Zionism.

The literature exhibited on the web sites that you suggested, and for which you sent me the links, also reminded me of the Jews with whom my father grew up, lived and worked in Palestine. You see, I was born in Palestine and my ancestors lived there for many centuries, perhaps millennia. My father was a Christian. Although he was not a Moslem like the majority of Palestinians, he respected and valued Islam as part of his culture and traditions, and loved his Moslem friends and neighbors. He also respected and valued Judaism as part of the heritage of the Holy Land in which he lived, which he loved and under which soil his remains lie; he respected and loved his Jewish friends. I invite you to read a few pages, excerpted from my book, about the way my father lived in Palestine with Moslems and Jews, and how he became a Palestinian refugee:

http://www.ladah.org/excerptsch1.htm

The information also confirms what I have always known about the difference between Judaism and Zionism, and reaffirms my love and admiration for the Jews that my father knew. Unfortunately, the new generation of Palestinians and Arabs do not have the same understanding of or love for Jews, but only because the only Jews they encounter are Zionists who robbed their land, homes and dignity. While many of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have encountered decent Jews who tried to protect them from the violence of the settlers during the olive harvest, who walked with them during the peace marches, who tried to stop the bulldozers from razing their homes, or who have spoken courageously against the Israeli establishment for the destruction of Palestinian society, many of them encountered a different kind of “Jew.” Most Palestinians and Arabs have only encountered, or heard about, those Jews who are Zionists and the crimes these Zionists planned and committed against them and their parents and/or their grandparents.

Most of the young generation Palestinians encounter every day, perhaps many times in a day, the young “Jew” at the checkpoint, a soldier of the Israeli occupation force wielding so much power over their lives and humiliating them, their mothers, their sisters and their fathers. They see death and destruction all around them and feel trapped by the indifference of the world to their plight. These young Palestinians feel betrayed by the world including by decent Jews who are not Zionists but simply sit on the fence, silently, not taking a stand for humanity. They see them taking a decent and liberal stand and defending the oppressed every where except in Palestine because they are afraid of, or have a mixed feelings about, the Zionists and what they represent.

I hope you don’t mind my sending a copy of this message to all of my friends with a recommendation that they frequent the web sites you suggested so they can learn about Jewish activism against Zionism:

http://www.nkusa.org
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com
http://www.netureikarta.org
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org
http://www.netureikartauk.org

David, you and I have a lot of work to do to salvage the reputation of the “Jews” among these young Palestinians from the damage that the Zionists have inflicted on your faith, just as we have to work together to salvage the reputation of decent Moslems from the damage that the Moslem extremists have inflicted on Islam.

Notwithstanding what the Zionists are doing in Palestine and elsewhere, and like many Palestinians and Arabs, I still have faith in the goodness of this earth and know that decent people everywhere, like the Jews you represent, will continue to speak louder and louder, and break the taboo of criticizing Israel and its policies toward innocent Palestinians and their institutions.

Thank you for writing and I hope we can keep in touch regularly.

With best regards,

Mike
 

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[QUOTE
http://www.illuminati-news.com/origins-of-modern-zionism.htm

What ya think of that then Gardener?

I know you love trying to make me angry by insulting my intelligence, but you are an insult to intelligence everywhere in the way you blindly align yourself with the goals and deciet of Zionism.

[/QUOTE]


What I think is that you just did exactly what I said you have been doing, and are relying on paranoid conspiracy websites to form the basis of your world view.

"Illuminati-news", indeed.

I did like that comment that I am "an insult to intelligence everywhere" ,though. So very witty.
 
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The Talmud Judaisms Holiest book:

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud:


Where a Jew Should Do Evil

moed_kattan%2017a.JPG


Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Insults Against Blessed Mary

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gloats over Christ Dying Young

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?--He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

Jesus in the Talmud:

Horrible Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ

While it is the standard disinformation practice of apologists for the Talmud to deny that it contains any scurrilous references to Jesus Christ, certain Orthodox Jewish organizations are more forthcoming and admit that the Talmud not only mentions Jesus but disparages him (as a sorcerer and a demented sex freak). These orthodox Jewish organizations make this admission perhaps out of the belief that Jewish supremacy is so well-established in the modern world that they need not concern themselves with adverse reactions.

For example, on the website of the Orthodox Jewish Hasidic Lubavitch group--one of the largest in the world--we find the following statement, complete with Talmudic citations:

"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the Nazarene':

1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

End quote from http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm (Lubavitch website) June 20, 2000.

[Note: we have printed and preserved in our files a hard copy of this statement from the Lubavitch"Noah's Covenant Website," as it appeared on their website at http://www.noahide.com on June 20, 2000, in the event that denials are later issued and the statement itself suppressed].

Let us examine further some of these anti-Christ Talmud passages:

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery: "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."

Kallah 51a."The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman's menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a bastard and a son of a niddah.

"They said, 'What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?' He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to the lad's mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans.

"He said to her, 'My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.' (eternal life). She said to him, 'Swear it to me.'

"Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, 'What is the status of your son?' She replied, 'When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.' Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah.

"It was declared, '..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba..."

In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars, the preceding Talmud discussion is actually about Jesus Christ (the bastard boy who "uncovered his head" and was conceived in the filth of menstruation). The boy's adulterous mother in this Talmud story is the mother of Christ, Blessed Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in the Talmud).


"The Editio Princeps of the complete Code of Talmudic Law, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah -- replete not only with the most offensive precepts against all Gentiles but also with explicit attacks on Christianity and on Jesus (after whose name the author adds piously, 'May the name of the wicked perish')... --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21.

"The Talmud contains a few explicit references to Jesus...These references are certainly not complimentary...There seems little doubt that the account of the execution of Jesus on the eve of Passover does refer to the Christian Jesus...The passage in which Jesus' punishment in hell is described also seems to refer to the Christian Jesus. It is a piece of anti-Christian polemic dating from the post-70 CE period..." --Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 26-27.

"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

"The more popular accounts--which were nevertheless taken quite seriously--such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists...

"The Hebrew form of the name Jesus--Yeshu--was interpreted as an acronym for the curse, 'may his name and memory be wiped out,' which is used as an extreme form of abuse. In fact, anti-zionist Orthodox Jews (such as Neturey Qarta) sometimes refer to Herzl as 'Herzl Jesus' and I have found in religious zionist writings expressions such as "Nasser Jesus" and more recently 'Arafat Jesus." --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, pp. 97- 98, 118.
 
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What I think is that you just did exactly what I said you have been doing, and are relying on paranoid conspiracy websites to form the basis of your world view.

I don't think you have read all of the links i have put up have you Mr???

What about all the links in that letter from a Jewish man to an internet article writer, are these all as you say "Wacko conspiracy hate preaching websites":

www.nkusa.org, www.jewsagainstzionism.com, www.netureikarta.org,
www.jewsnotzionists.org, www.netureikartauk.org.
I did like that comment that I am "an insult to intelligence everywhere" ,though. So very witty.

Do you think i care?
 
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Sick and Insane Teachings of the Talmud

Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic."

Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs."

Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
 
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