Anti-War/Anti-Bush = Anti-American

[IValueFreedom]

Here's the format. Unless it's in this form, I won't respond to it.

"This is what you said in your post:

This is wrong/inaccurate/illogical because... (insert a clear and concise point). This can be seen because... (supporting material to prove your case)."

Also, please make sure that the relevancy is clear. This is the main reason why I'm not attempting a response now. I don't know what in my piece you're arguing aginst. Oh, and please, no more "diagrams" (Troops+ work for the>Military+>works for President->in which troops fight wars, in this instance Iraq-.) They're difficult to put together when I'm reading quickly.

So, if you'd be so kind to rephrase your arguments, using the structure that I gave you as an outline, then I'll be more than happy to respond.

It really would help out a ton so I know what you're arguments are and I can respond appropriately Thanks

I did read your post. A couple times.
If you do not show the relevance of your arguments, I still will not respond to them. It is very simple.

I'm not going to argue with someone who does not clearly state their position and/or make coherent points.

The format I've provided you is quite simple and still highly effective. I suggest you use it.

Moving on, now that you've clarified what the +- symbols mean, the diagram makes much more sense, but there are still a few things that must be addressed.

Troops work for the Military
Military works for the President
President "insert here" troops fight in the war on Iraq

Please insert the action and then tell the significance and explain the logic.
I'm sorry if you have to take the time to explain this in detail, but as you put it I "lack the intelect to have a logical discussion!" Please show me how logic works.

I'm only asking you to form your ideas into a coherent arguement, one that is able to be understood by others, even simple folk like me.

I think the key issue is RELEVANCE. You seem to think that I'm saying your arguments are not true. But really, I'm just dismissing them without thought because they are not relevant. If you want me to take you seriously, which I will as I'm open to knew ideas and information, then you must show why it effects what I've argued. If it fails to do so, it belongs in another thread.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by stsburns:
Put me down some, you Extremeist's like to make everyone feel defenseless against you! That post clearly states your belief but still doesn't logicly make sense. Troops+ work for the>Military+>works for President->in which troops fight wars, in this instance Iraq-. So you support them and their higher officers, but Blasphemy to their Commander and Chief, and their own job. It just doesn't compute.

So were just suppose to obey, not question...

 

[stsburns]

So were just suppose to obey, not question...

You do if you work for the military, cause that would be your job on the line if you let out any political insult you have used. No, you just don't get how you supporting the troops makes you look like your FOS. You can't have one without the other! It's guilty by association. Not hate one, spare the other! You can't be halfway on the troops side, the with you undermining them at every chance, then telling them your on their side? It doesn't make any sense?

Since I see you like pictures so much, maybe these smilies can explain your ideology in words you can understand:
(troops) :shoot :flame: (you)

 

[stsburns]

OOOOHHHH! I know what song you're talking about, you threw me for a loop.

My bad! :mrgreen:

 

[stsburns]

I did read your post. A couple times.
If you do not show the relevance of your arguments, I still will not respond to them. It is very simple.

You had no problem replying to this one, so I can't see why you responded if you thought such a thing?

Troops work for the Military
Military works for the President
President "insert here" troops fight in the war on Iraq

Which part of the diagram is the "Insert here" part, I don't remember adding one, but if you refresh my memory it would be nice! :2wave:

Please insert the action and then tell the significance and explain the logic.
I'm sorry if you have to take the time to explain this in detail, but as you put it I "lack the intelect to have a logical discussion!" Please show me how logic works.

All processes are done in diagrams. No one in the armed forces is just handed a job. Their jobs are sent from the Pentagon, then it goes to base generals, then it goes to majors, then to the inlisted's. That was how I was trying to show in the diagrams, you can't hate half of the graph, because it is a "Whole" process.

I'm only asking you to form your ideas into a coherent arguement, one that is able to be understood by others, even simple folk like me.

I'm trying everything I can to make it simple, but I will simplify if you still need clarification on how the diagram plays into the argument.

I think the key issue is RELEVANCE. You seem to think that I'm saying your arguments are not true. But really, I'm just dismissing them without thought because they are not relevant. If you want me to take you seriously, which I will as I'm open to knew ideas and information, then you must show why it effects what I've argued. If it fails to do so, it belongs in another thread.

I think you like the "Dodger's", maybe because you are one, but lets get back to the point. You tell me your "Open" to new idea's, then tell me to go to another "Thread"? Where's is the logic there? :mrgreen:

 

[IValueFreedom]

You had no problem replying to this one, so I can't see why you responded if you thought such a thing? QUOTE]

I didn't respond you your arguments. I replied to you post, but read again and I still have not responded to them.

Clarify your arguments into coherent thoughts and then I will respond to them.

Until then, I would not reply again if I were you because you're just making youself look stupid.

 

[stsburns]

IValueFreedom, dodge all you want, the issue is still at hand. If you want to settle this like civilized human beings, stop putting yourself on a pedestal, and be open to other ideas than yours, like your post said.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by stsburns:
You do if you work for the military, cause that would be your job on the line if you let out any political insult you have used. No, you just don't get how you supporting the troops makes you look like your FOS. You can't have one without the other! It's guilty by association. Not hate one, spare the other! You can't be halfway on the troops side, the with you undermining them at every chance, then telling them your on their side? It doesn't make any sense?

I want to thank you for disagreeing with me without all the emotion that was present on some prior posts. I don't have a problem with you thinking I'm FOS. I see your point. I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with the conclusion you've drawn.

 

[stsburns]

I want to thank you for disagreeing with me without all the emotion that was present on some prior posts. I don't have a problem with you thinking I'm FOS. I see your point. I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with the conclusion you've drawn.

Well we can agree to disagree, and let bigons be bigons. Thanks for hearing me out! :2wave:

 

[IValueFreedom]

IValueFreedom, dodge all you want, the issue is still at hand. If you want to settle this like civilized human beings, stop putting yourself on a pedestal, and be open to other ideas than yours, like your post said.

Who's dodging anything?

I said that I don't understand your question and/or it doesn't make sense to what I've posted. I never responded to your actual arguements, instead, I've asked on numerous posts for you to rephrase you points into coherent thoughts, and you still haven't.

If you're not willing to put in 5 mins to lay out your points, then I'm not going to try and figure them out for you and then respond.

POST YOUR POINTS AND I WILL RESPOND!

Put your points clearly out, please show the relavence to what I was saying, and I WILL RESPOND. I'm not going to respond against vague or ambiguous arguments. I want to know what I'm debating. It's not that f*ing hard. Just do it!

 

[stsburns]

Calm down, I will repost my response to Billo that asked the same question.

You can't have one without the other! It's guilty by association. Not, hate one, spare the other! You can't be halfway on the troops side. With you undermining them at every chance, then telling them your on their side? It doesn't make any sense?-stsburns

 

[mikeey]

U are a great country and poeple and Scotland will always support U in every way,right or wrong,as i have said the us people are

Simply the Best

Love to U all

Mikeey

 

[IValueFreedom]

U are a great country and poeple and Scotland will always support U in every way,right or wrong,as i have said the us people are

Simply the Best

Love to U all

Mikeey

Thanks for the warm feelings

But... even in our country, we feel that it is our duty to fight the government when we feel it is out of line. Governments are SERVANTS of the people. They do not deserve, nor should they ever have, loyalty.

Now, America on the other hand is highly deserving of loyalty. This state, which is much more than just a government, deserves our patiotism and undeniable loyalty to all things that make us great. America is not a government, it is a great people who are deserving of your support.

So, please, always support America and people that make it up, but the government does not entitled to it. People make mistakes and it's important not to leave them in time of need, but government is NOT a person and should not command the same feelings.

Just like I believe that Bush should be thrown out of office. But I do not think that any physical harm should come to him (unlike how he has treated others) for his horrible crimes. He should face a court of justice to decide his fate. I am loyal to Bush as a person, thinking that he is entitled to every right that anyone in this country has, but not loyal to the governement that represented him.



Oh, and stsburns... I'm still waiting :\

Nothing?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by IValueFreedom:
But... even in our country, we feel that it is our duty to fight the government when we feel it is out of line. Governments are SERVANTS of the people. They do not deserve, nor should they ever have, loyalty.

Now, America on the other hand is highly deserving of loyalty. This state, which is much more than just a government, deserves our patiotism and undeniable loyalty to all things that make us great. America is not a government, it is a great people who are deserving of your support.

So, please, always support America and people that make it up, but the government does not entitled to it. People make mistakes and it's important not to leave them in time of need, but government is NOT a person and should not command the same feelings.

Just like I believe that Bush should be thrown out of office. But I do not think that any physical harm should come to him (unlike how he has treated others) for his horrible crimes. He should face a court of justice to decide his fate. I am loyal to Bush as a person, thinking that he is entitled to every right that anyone in this country has, but not loyal to the governement that represented him.

Not only a "...right that anyone in this country has", but he is entitled to the respect of the office he holds. That might sound strange coming from me, but he is my President. Its just I feel the same way you do, he needs to be impeached.

 

[stsburns]

Not only a "...right that anyone in this country has", but he is entitled to the respect of the office he holds. That might sound strange coming from me, but he is my President. Its just I feel the same way you do, he needs to be impeached.

He could just pardon himself just like clinton did? Would you still want to impeach him? :2wave:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally pardoned by stsburns:
He could just pardon himself just like clinton did? Would you still want to impeach him?

I didn't agree with Clinton pardoning so many people on his last day in office. If it was possible for a President to pardon himself, then by Presidential decree, he would be impeachable. In which case I would cease to lobby for thereof. To continue to do so at that point, would be breaking the law, which I do not advocate.