Anti-Semitism Row: Now Councillor Suspended

[gunner]

"Labour has been forced to suspend a councillor for anti-Israel comments posted on Facebook as the party continues to be batttered over its handling of the anti-Semitic crisis.

Nottingham city councillor Ilyas Aziz shared a number of posts on the social media site, one suggesting Israel be relocated in the US - the same comments that saw Bradford West MP Naz Shah suspended last week."

Anti-Semitism Row: Now Councillor Suspended

It feels like 'open season' since Corbyn took over the leadership. I wonder who'll be next?

 

[Sherman123]

Good.

 

[gunner]

Details coming through of another Labour councillor, who apparently says: "Israel is behind the Islamic state". Details will be posted when available.

 

[Higgins86]

Thank God the British right wing are here to defend Israel from the evil left....:roll:

 

[gunner]

Thank God the British right wing are here to defend Israel from the evil left....:roll:

Higgs, do you feel the above comments are acceptable?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I wonder who'll be next?

Actually, quite a few councillors have already been suspended which are only just coming to light.

 

[gunner]

Actually, quite a few councillors have already been suspended which are only just coming to light.

As soon as I posted this Sky News suggested another councillor from Blackburn had suggested: "Israel are behind IS ". Whether it was historic or recent, I'm sure details will follow.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

If it's Salim Mulla... then this Guido Fawkes page has his past facebook quotes. The same "move Israel to the US" graphic appeared on his page too.

 

[Arcana XV]

Okay, I'm a little confused here guys. Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I'm being overly literal, but to me words actually have meaning. Especially in this crazy world we're living in where everything you say and do can instantly end up on the internet for the entire world to dissect and the media to create outrageous headlines out of.

So here's my issue: I see and hear a lot of anti-Israel comments coming from the British left. Why are the headlines calling this anti-Semitism? Why the conflation of two very different terms? Does the media not realize how dangerous it is to do this? Not that I expect anything better from that ****ed up profession these days, but this is tabloid journalism and it pisses me off because most people will take it at face value without any critical analysis of what they're being fed.

That said, just to be clear and to prevent my own words from being twisted or misunderstood, I do not approve of any of these anti-Israel comments. Although I do support the right of all these idiots to voice their ignorant opinions and to deal with the consequences of what they say publicly.

So, can someone point me to an actual anti-Semitic comment or is all of this just anti-Israel drivel? And am I the only one actually bothered by this??

 

[William Rea]

...So, can someone point me to an actual anti-Semitic comment or is all of this just anti-Israel drivel? And am I the only one actually bothered by this??

No you aren't.

 

[Arcana XV]

No you aren't.

Yeah, I just saw another thread where it's being discussed. So many threads, so little time...

 

[Andalublue]

It would appear that on one measure of anti-semitism there is a greater concern that UKIP and Tory party supporters are more of a worry.

Revealed: the most anti-Semitic people in Britain -- and who they vote for - Telegraph

 

[gunner]

It would appear that on one measure of anti-semitism there is a greater concern that UKIP and Tory party supporters are more of a worry.

Revealed: the most anti-Semitic people in Britain -- and who they vote for - Telegraph

Weak sauce Andy. So, the right are/have done it, so it is fine for the left too?

 

[Andalublue]

Weak sauce Andy. So, the right are/have done it, so it is fine for the left too?

Unsurprising you'd leap at a straw man argument. Go back to my comments on Livingston. By your logic I guess you're happy to ignore anti-semitism that isn't committed by Labourites. Silly argument, isn't it?

 

[Arcana XV]

It would appear that on one measure of anti-semitism there is a greater concern that UKIP and Tory party supporters are more of a worry.

Revealed: the most anti-Semitic people in Britain -- and who they vote for - Telegraph

Wow. Really? That is the question used to measure anti-Semitism? That was one hell of a loaded question.

I have more than one passport. Am I more Swiss, Canadian or Spanish? I don't even know how to begin to measure that. One thing I can tell you though, is that I am not fully either Swiss, Canadian or Spanish. There's a big piece of my identity in all three. If a Swiss person were to say that I am "less Swiss" because of it, I would have to kind of agree.

 

[Andalublue]

Wow. Really? That is the question used to measure anti-Semitism? That was one hell of a loaded question.

Not THE measure but, as I carefully worded my post, 'ONE measure'.

 

[Chagos]

.......................So here's my issue: I see and hear a lot of anti-Israel comments coming from the British left. Why are the headlines calling this anti-Semitism? Why the conflation of two very different terms? ..........................

I'd say there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policy itself (towards anyone else, yet usually the Palestinians) and advocating the elimination of their state by relocating the whole people to some other place.

The latter is not simply anti-Israel, it's anti Jewish. Alone on account of the nature of the state as anyone should be able to see it, i.e. Jewish homeland.

There is an equal difference between lambasting (say) Hamas policy (of wanting to destroy) and advocating that all Palestinians be assimilated into neighboring Arab countries, except in the latter case any accusation of that stance being Islamophobe would somehow miss the mark. Wouldn't make it any less disgusting though.

In other words one can be critical of Israel and its policies and to construe such critical stance as being anti-semitic is rubbish. Call for the elimination of the state in the process though and don't whine at the flak that'll come.

 

[Higgins86]

Higgs, do you feel the above comments are acceptable?

I just think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion and it sets a dangerous precident at what we can/can't say about Israel.

 

[Chagos]

I just think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion and it sets a dangerous precident at what we can/can't say about Israel.

Well, see my post just prior to yours where I've attempted to outline differences.

I'd agree though that labels are being thrown around recklessly.

 

[William Rea]

It would appear that on one measure of anti-semitism there is a greater concern that UKIP and Tory party supporters are more of a worry.

Revealed: the most anti-Semitic people in Britain -- and who they vote for - Telegraph

Kind of supports the comment I made in another post. The percentages in this poll aren't that far apart between the major parties.

...I don't understand what those who are criticising Labour actually want? My question was perhaps thinking that the number of Muslims in Labour was part of the problem? PEW research suggests that perhaps 10% of the British public view Jews unfavourably are you suggesting that all of these people are in the Labour party and no other political party in Britain?...

 

[Higgins86]

More importantly can anyone think of a specific policy from Labour that could be deemed anti-Semitic? I can't think of any in recent memory.

 

[William Rea]

I'd say there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policy itself (towards anyone else, yet usually the Palestinians) and advocating the elimination of their state by relocating the whole people to some other place.

The latter is not simply anti-Israel, it's anti Jewish. Alone on account of the nature of the state as anyone should be able to see it, i.e. Jewish homeland.

There is an equal difference between lambasting (say) Hamas policy (of wanting to destroy) and advocating that all Palestinians be assimilated into neighboring Arab countries, except in the latter case any accusation of that stance being Islamophobe would somehow miss the mark. Wouldn't make it any less disgusting though.

In other words one can be critical of Israel and its policies and to construe such critical stance as being anti-semitic is rubbish. Call for the elimination of the state in the process though and don't whine at the flak that'll come.

I'm trying to keep within the restrictions of discussing the merits of this outside of the IP Forum so in general terms, I would argue that, unless it is made in a 'satirical' way, it is a ridiculous comment to make post hoc but, it is not a crime to think it and, I don't believe that it is up to us try to control what others can think or express unless it has a direct causal link to actual harm; I can see that it might also be hyperbole to try to make a point.

In general, attack the ridiculous comment but for goodness sake stop trying to police what we are allowed or not allowed to think or say.

 

[William Rea]

More importantly can anyone think of a specific policy from Labour that could be deemed anti-Semitic? I can't think of any in recent memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006

This is obviously anti-semitic.

I don't agree with this act by the way.

 

[Higgins86]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006

This is obviously anti-semitic.

I don't agree with this act by the way.

Wasn't that more anti religion as a whole?

 

[mbig]

Okay, I'm a little confused here guys. Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I'm being overly literal, but to me words actually have meaning. Especially in this crazy world we're living in where everything you say and do can instantly end up on the internet for the entire world to dissect and the media to create outrageous headlines out of.

So here's my issue: I see and hear a lot of anti-Israel comments coming from the British left. Why are the headlines calling this anti-Semitism? Why the conflation of two very different terms? ...

I did a string on this 6 Years ago.
Actually was thanked by Andalublue for it in one of his posts.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/68064-anti-semitism-anti-zionism-crosses-line.html

Beside my prelude discussion, the main content was:
A piece on this by Alan Dershowitz on HuffingtonPost. July 2005.
When Legit Criticism Crosses the Anti-Semitism Line
Also like the quote by Thomas Friedman.

The EU commission/eumc considers comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany anti-semitic.
Not to mention, many anti-semites just use simple/transparent substitution.
It's not any less ansitisemitic because someone substitutes 'Zionist' or 'Israel' for 'Jew/Jewish.'
ie 'Jewish Bankers' is now 'Zionist Bankers'; Jewish Control is now ZOG, etc.
aka 'Proxy anti-semitism', the 'New anti-semitism.'