Anti-maskers explain themselves

[NWRatCon]

What this thread, and our friend Nuber, has demonstrated quite well is that "anti-maskers" are incapable of thinking logically, thoroughly, or civicly - or at least expressing their thoughts so. Rather, they are dogmatic and thick-headed. Let me elucidate:

"if" is the largest word in your sentence. My freedom should not be governmentally removed based on if. This is a basic premise of our society. Or at least is used to be.

That is an emblematic "dogmatic" expression, devoid of any logical or historical construction or substance. ALL government instruction and action is based on "if" - "if" you cross the street illegally, you might get a citation; if you cause the death of another, you may be prosecuted; if you enter a dwelling at night to commit a felony, you are a burglar. It has been thus, always. So, If you don't wear a mask, you may be in violation of the law - however enacted - depending on the circumstances.

JoelChung said, " i’ve been reading these responses and many don’t know what masks are for." To which Nuber responded "I certainly hope you are not assuming me with your presumptive sentence." Then proceeded to demonstrate the verity of Joelchung's assertion by saying, "Masks are a placebo to alleviate fear." That, my friends, is exactly what rhetorical "bovine feces" looks like.

As Nuber acknowledges,

Masks of any kind, to a certain degree, mitigate vapor or particulate or other microscopic items from passing the barrier of the mask. Not all masks are made the same, and the absolute vast majority of "things" worn by the public are on the lowest scale of effectiveness.
....
If you wear a mask, to whatever extent it blocks whatever it blocks, it will prevent my expulsions from passing through as well (it doesn't just mitigate exhalations, it also mitigates inhalations).

Yes, "they are mitigating procedure" - which is the point. They are explicitly not a placebo, as was inconsistently asserted. While there may be some discussion about how best to execute masking more effectively, the overbroad effort to minimize their effectiveness demonstrates a lack of candor in the argument.

"The brainwashing worked on you, I see." The problem is, of course, that the brainwashing is self-induced.

 

[George50]

This is the exact problem in our modern society, that we have conceded power to 1 individual. Regardless of if we are talking about state or federal legislation, laws are not supposed to be passed by 1 person. Horrendous loss of freedom, and many people, yourself included, don't even understand how dangerous this is.

Simple example for you - thieves and rapists exist, so your governor justifies an executive order mandating that all citizens must carry loaded guns to protect themselves.

This is a test of your commitment to the power of an executive order.



I do not have anything backwards. It is well established in law that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Anyone who calls me a killer if I am not wearing a mask is a moron, because they can't prove that I had or have COVID. Let alone prove that I personally spread it to anyone. One must commit a crime, and be proven to have done so in order to have government action taken against me in this country (at least that is the way it is supposed to work). As of right now my freedom to control myself has been taken away from me, without my consent, without justification, without causation, without substantial evidence to support 1 person (my governor) mandating that I lose my freedom.

My state does not qualify as a pandemic under CDC definitions, no hospital in my state has ever been overwhelmed with cases, there is no reason for an emergency to be declared.



The chance of catching COVID is miniscule, the chance of dying from it is miniscule; the spread of COVID will not destroy our society. This is not airborne EBOLA.

I give a pass to everyone through May. We didn't know what was going on. We do now. The elderly are at risk - protect them. Pre-existing conditions plus COVID is the ****tail that kills most people - protect those with pre-existing conditions. Wash your hands, now go do it again, stay distant, minimize contact. Go back to work. Go back to your life.

You want to wear a mask? Wear one, I don't care.



I understand this is an online forum, but you assume far too much. Do you know if I wear a mask or not when I am in public?

I am saying a 1 person government mandate is the incorrect method of mask implementation. I am also saying that a mask mandate is a violation of personal freedom. I never said I don't wear a mask in public.

Sorry that you do not agree with that state constitutions and legislators that have granted EO powers. It’s irrelevant that you do not agree, the EO’s still have the power of law.

Yes, you are innocent until proven guilty, but if you defy an EO, you are guilty. You don’t get to choose which laws to follow. The mask mandates are in place because everyone is a risk, avoiding that risk saves lives and will help to get the economy back to normal. The crime you commit is not spreading the disease but instead violating the mandate.

About four in ten adults (37.6%) ages 18 and older in the U.S. (92.6 million people) have a higher risk of developing serious illness if they become infected with coronavirus, due to their older age (65 and older) or health condition. It’s not practical to “protect” that many people.

How Many Adults Are at Risk of Serious Illness If Infected with Coronavirus? Updated Data | KFF

About four in ten adults (37.6%) ages 18 and older in the U.S. (92.6 million people) have a higher risk of developing serious illness if they become infected with the novel coronavirus, due to their older age (65 and older) or health condition. The share who have a higher risk varies across the...

www.kff.org

Did you ever stop to think that the reason your state is not in bad shape has something to do with the fact that people are wearing masks?

I have no idea whether or not you wear a mask in public, but since you are actively discouraging people from wearing masks then, just like Trump, you are part of the problem.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Hari Seldon]

Shouldn't the germophobes be the ones hiding at home since you are the ones afraid of the earth we live on? Surely you wont get sick if you shelter at home and put aluminum foil over your windows.

Better aluminum foil over our windows than on our heads.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Better aluminum foil over our windows than on our heads.

View attachment 67296525

hahahajhahah says the guy pushing wearing a mask over peoples mouths. Maybe try a aluminum foil mask? lol. your hat pictured above is actually demonstrated by mask pushers who think cloth is stopping viruses...in a one way direction no less. I love tin foil mask science!

 

[joelchung]

"if" is the largest word in your sentence. My freedom should not be governmentally removed based on if. This is a basic premise of our society. Or at least is used to be.



I certainly hope you are not assuming me with your presumptive sentence.



This is a false narrative. Masks of any kind, to a certain degree, mitigate vapor or particulate or other microscopic items from passing the barrier of the mask. Not all masks are made the same, and the absolute vast majority of "things" worn by the public are on the lowest scale of effectiveness.

In addition your statement assumes that masks are a one direction barrier. This is bovine feces of the highest order. If you wear a mask, to whatever extent it blocks whatever it blocks, it will prevent my expulsions from passing through as well (it doesn't just mitigate exhalations, it also mitigates inhalations).

Look up the term "doffing procedure"
Look up the term "donning procedure"
How many times were you in a sanitary condition when you did either of the above?
How do you sterilize your mask? (note that I did not use the word "clean")
Does COVID only enter the human body via the nose and mouth?

Hopefully you see where I am going with this - masks are not what you claim they are, they are mitigating procedure at best, that barely mitigates a disease that the vast majority of us will NEVER get (330 million Americans and only 7 million cases), and is largely deadly to people with ADDITIONAL conditions.

Masks are a placebo to alleviate fear. You could choose to wear a respirator and a face shield and what I wear wouldn't matter. There are other options that preserve freedom. And yes I understand what a mask does, I merely question the level of effectiveness in addition to the legality of mandated use.



You are someone who doesn't understand freedom and personal responsibility. You must be defeated at the ballot box or I will have a red letter emblazoned across my chest soon.



The brainwashing worked on you, I see. It didn't take with me. By the way - I wear a mask in public, I social distance. The former is a violation of my personal freedom because I am mandated to do so, the latter is my choice.

just because your freedom may or may not be threatened doesn’t give you the right to take the right of being healthy away from others so don’t use the “freedom” when justifying why masks should be optional when your decision to not wear a mask is infringing on your fellow americans. oh, and for future reference, you don’t need big, elaborate words or fancy sentence structure. instead, maybe you should trade your big vocabulary for common sense and the ability to critically think and form your own unique opinions.

 

[RealityNow]

Anti-maskers explain themselves

"If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it."

www.vox.com

“If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it.”


At the outset of the pandemic, Amy, a 48-year-old mother of two from Ohio, was afraid. When the government began recommending people wear masks, she not only complied but also made masks for others. “I was like, oh, this is scary, this could be really bad,” she said.

But when Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced the state would extend its lockdown for the month of May, she’d had it. Pandemic over or not, she was done. After that, Amy became vehemently anti-mask and began to doubt whether the coronavirus was really that big of a deal. Her mother unfollowed her on Facebook over her “anger posts” about masks, and she hasn’t heard from her in a month. She carries a homemade mask with her, just in case, but she doesn’t believe in them.

“It’s a violation of my freedom, I think, and then also I just don’t think they work,” Amy said. “A lot of stuff says it does, but then some doesn’t.”

Masks have become an extremely heated point of contention during the Covid-19 outbreak. Viral videos of people having meltdowns over masks are commonplace, and in many parts of the country, it’s not abnormal for strangers to confront each other publicly over the issue. A small but vocal segment of the population has dug in and ignored the growing evidence that masks make a difference in combating the coronavirus. For those who believe that at the very least wearing a mask can’t hurt, it’s hard to not develop some animosity toward those who refuse. The question I keep hearing from pro-mask friends and family is always the same: What are these people thinking?

In recent weeks, I spoke with nearly a dozen people who consider themselves anti-mask to find out just that. What I discovered is that there is certainly a broad spectrum of reasons — some find wearing a mask annoying or just aren’t convinced they work, and others have gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracies that often involve vaccines, Big Pharma, YouTube, and Bill Gates. One man told me he wears a mask when he goes to the store to be polite. A woman got kicked out of a Menards store for refusing to wear a mask amid what she calls the “Covid scam garbage.”
==============================================================
People have changed quite a bit since 1918. But the Spanish Flu was very different. You could eat breakfast & be dead by nightfall.

• 1 John 2:15-17
  Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world -- the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does -- comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

This explains why those who Right Winger's who pretend to be so Godly, can't keep themselves away from the lustful things, even for the safety of their own lives and the respect of the safety of the lives of others. .

 

[Nuber]

What this thread, and our friend Nuber, has demonstrated quite well is that "anti-maskers" are incapable of thinking logically, thoroughly, or civicly - or at least expressing their thoughts so. Rather, they are dogmatic and thick-headed. Let me elucidate:
That is an emblematic "dogmatic" expression, devoid of any logical or historical construction or substance. ALL government instruction and action is based on "if" - "if" you cross the street illegally, you might get a citation; if you cause the death of another, you may be prosecuted; if you enter a dwelling at night to commit a felony, you are a burglar. It has been thus, always. So, If you don't wear a mask, you may be in violation of the law - however enacted - depending on the circumstances.

JoelChung said, " i’ve been reading these responses and many don’t know what masks are for." To which Nuber responded "I certainly hope you are not assuming me with your presumptive sentence." Then proceeded to demonstrate the verity of Joelchung's assertion by saying, "Masks are a placebo to alleviate fear." That, my friends, is exactly what rhetorical "bovine feces" looks like.

As Nuber acknowledges, Yes, "they are mitigating procedure" - which is the point. They are explicitly not a placebo, as was inconsistently asserted. While there may be some discussion about how best to execute masking more effectively, the overbroad effort to minimize their effectiveness demonstrates a lack of candor in the argument.

"The brainwashing worked on you, I see." The problem is, of course, that the brainwashing is self-induced.

Amazing how many words were used to ignore my points. Let me try some links regarding government overreach -

https://www.abc27.com/news/health/c...overnor-wolf-shutdown-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...-coronavirus-lockdown-legal-challenges-261428

The best summary from a federal judge - " The governor’s efforts to slow the spread of the coronavirus “were undertaken with the good intention of addressing a public health emergency. But even in an emergency, the authority of government is not unfettered,” Stickman wrote. “The Constitution cannot accept the concept of a ‘new normal’ where the basic liberties of the people can be subordinated to open-ended emergency mitigation measures.”

In basic terms - Government is not supposed to be able to tell you what to do without restriction. There must be a reason, the reason must be demonstrable, and the reason must be supported by more than 1 person. Executive orders that take away our freedoms should be opposed by all of us - all the time - regardless of political party.

Regarding fear -

I am presenting that fear is driving this debate because we (as a nation) are acting abnormally compared to other causes of human death.

Masks do not prevent the disease - they mitigate the spread at best. COVID can enter through the eyeball for example, and eye coverings are not ordered anywhere. So IF preventing death is enough substantiation for government to order your behavior, WHY do we all not run around with goggles and masks? Irrational behavior based on fear - we are not being scientific at all about this, government is requiring a simple placebo to get the public off their backs about doing SOMETHING about COVID. Just like all politicians, if you can demonstrate that you did SOMETHING then many people will accept it, regardless of the effectiveness of the action. I am not being dogmatic, I am being rational. Mask orders are not about me protecting you, or you protecting me, they are a false sense of security illegally ordered by politicians trying to keep their jobs. Your fear of the conditions is what allows this to be effective.

Our nation has 350 million people, 7 million confirmed COVID cases, 210,000 COVID related deaths, and about 13,000 deaths in which COVID was the likely sole cause. These numbers come from the CDC and are rounded. Also note that COVID is not the highest death category tracked by the CDC. Why are we not ordering mitigation tactics for those deaths?

98% of Americans do not have COVID.
97% of Americans with COVID live.
Therefore - over 99% of Americans have not died from COVID.

Once a person has been proven to have COVID, I am fine with restrictions in freedoms for the betterment of society. It is demonstrable that one is a risk to their fellow humans at that point. Until then, government is out of line if they make me wear a mask.

 

[Nuber]

just because your freedom may or may not be threatened doesn’t give you the right to take the right of being healthy away from others so don’t use the “freedom” when justifying why masks should be optional when your decision to not wear a mask is infringing on your fellow americans. oh, and for future reference, you don’t need big, elaborate words or fancy sentence structure. instead, maybe you should trade your big vocabulary for common sense and the ability to critically think and form your own unique opinions.

If you can't prove I have COVID, I am not the monster you proclaim me to be. Your entire argument rests on my risk to others based on the assumption that I have COVID.

Prove that I have COVID and I will concede your argument. Until then you are irrational. And part of the problem.

 

[jpn]

Show me one scientific study - replicated by other scientists - that quantifies the effectiveness of masks we wear. Do not insult me with "masks work". Or, "masks are better than nothing."
I hope that that study will show how masks hurt the wearers by forcing the wearer to inhale his own exhausts, plus very humid CO2. In numbers.

No numbers, don't bother.

"Take, for example, a meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them. The analysis, which was published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission."

 

[jpn]

Masks do not prevent the disease - they mitigate the spread at best.

Translation: "they save lives at best."

Sounds good to me.

 

[jpn]

If you can't prove I have COVID, I am not the monster you proclaim me to be. Your entire argument rests on my risk to others based on the assumption that I have COVID.

Prove that I have COVID and I will concede your argument. Until then you are irrational. And part of the problem.

Your argument only applies if you can prove you don't have COVID. Unfortunately, even negative tests don't prove people don't have COVID, since they could have picked up the virus between the time they were tested and the time the results were read, plus not all COVID tests are 100 percent accurate and reliable.

Don't be a jerk and infect somebody just to prove to yourself that you're a member of the MAGA team. Wear a damn mask.

 

[cabse5]

Anti-maskers explain themselves

"If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it."

www.vox.com

“If I’m going to get Covid and die from it, then so be it.”


At the outset of the pandemic, Amy, a 48-year-old mother of two from Ohio, was afraid. When the government began recommending people wear masks, she not only complied but also made masks for others. “I was like, oh, this is scary, this could be really bad,” she said.

But when Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced the state would extend its lockdown for the month of May, she’d had it. Pandemic over or not, she was done. After that, Amy became vehemently anti-mask and began to doubt whether the coronavirus was really that big of a deal. Her mother unfollowed her on Facebook over her “anger posts” about masks, and she hasn’t heard from her in a month. She carries a homemade mask with her, just in case, but she doesn’t believe in them.

“It’s a violation of my freedom, I think, and then also I just don’t think they work,” Amy said. “A lot of stuff says it does, but then some doesn’t.”

Masks have become an extremely heated point of contention during the Covid-19 outbreak. Viral videos of people having meltdowns over masks are commonplace, and in many parts of the country, it’s not abnormal for strangers to confront each other publicly over the issue. A small but vocal segment of the population has dug in and ignored the growing evidence that masks make a difference in combating the coronavirus. For those who believe that at the very least wearing a mask can’t hurt, it’s hard to not develop some animosity toward those who refuse. The question I keep hearing from pro-mask friends and family is always the same: What are these people thinking?

In recent weeks, I spoke with nearly a dozen people who consider themselves anti-mask to find out just that. What I discovered is that there is certainly a broad spectrum of reasons — some find wearing a mask annoying or just aren’t convinced they work, and others have gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracies that often involve vaccines, Big Pharma, YouTube, and Bill Gates. One man told me he wears a mask when he goes to the store to be polite. A woman got kicked out of a Menards store for refusing to wear a mask amid what she calls the “Covid scam garbage.”
==============================================================
People have changed quite a bit since 1918. But the Spanish Flu was very different. You could eat breakfast & be dead by nightfall.

Pro-maskers that don't socially distance. Don't wash their hands. Don't wear eye protection should explain themselves.

I swear. Members of both political parties are accusing the other party of advocating for the spread of Covid when both parties are facilitating the spread of Covid.

 

[JacksinPA]

The ones that drive me nuts are the 'half maskers' why don't cover their noses with the mask. Last one was the cash register guy at my local hardware store. I told him 'You're not wearing your mask correctly.' I got no response. It's probably a pain the butt to wear a mask for 8 hours but I do what I can do.

 

[jpn]

I know. I saw a guy whose mask covered only his chin. Maybe he was making a point of how proud he was to be a MAGA supporter, deliberately spraying infection around.

 

[JacksinPA]

I know. I saw a guy whose mask covered only his chin. Maybe he was making a point of how proud he was to be a MAGA supporter, deliberately spraying infection around.

Trump deserves what he got for ignoring the CDC guidelines.

 

[year2late]

Translation: "they save lives at best."

Sounds good to me.

This reminds me of the proclamation that 9/11 happened was because of a failure of imagination.
If an administration or individual cannot imagine the nightmare scenario of asymptomatic spread.....I do not know what to say.
Wearing a mask is acknowledgement that it is possible that you may have the virus and you are doing something to prevent the spread to others.

I have to laugh at all the temperature checks. As if a temperature check detects presence of the disease - when it is well known that a person can be infectious well before any signs occure.

Saves living lives by slowing the spread is a friggen good thing.

You still have hospitals and especially ICUs with large numbers of COVID....and we have not gotten into flu season.

We need better leadership on this issue. Period.

We also need more N95s - we are still having to wear this masks for weeks at a time. Disgusting.

 

[noonereal]

Trump deserves what he got for ignoring the CDC guidelines.

he has set such a bad example... say what you will but no country on the globe is handling this as bad as we are

this is just a fact no one can deny and it's all Trump fault for his awful response.

 

[noonereal]

We also need more N95s - we are still having to wear this masks for weeks at a time. Disgusting.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are there no certified N95 masks available for the guy in the street after 7 ****in months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

 

[jpn]

Trump deserves what he got for ignoring the CDC guidelines.

He deserves to roast in hell for all eternity. Too.

 

[JacksinPA]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are there no certified N95 masks available for the guy in the street after 7 ****in months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

The Pentagon redirected the mask money to make jet engine parts & body armor.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Your mask and the eye goggles will keep you alive just find. Your health is your problem, not mine.
Don't you know that masks work?

Easy question. Last Saturday at the announcement of the new justice, there were a few people wearing masks. Tell me how many of them caught the virus? What we know is all the people that did catch the virus were not wearing masks.

 

[joelchung]

If you can't prove I have COVID, I am not the monster you proclaim me to be. Your entire argument rests on my risk to others based on the assumption that I have COVID.

Prove that I have COVID and I will concede your argument. Until then you are irrational. And part of the problem.

It's not a matter of you being a monster. You're not a monster. You're a proud American who values their rights. And that is perfectly fine. However, this argument can go back to the times pre-Constitution where there were two groups: the federalists and the anti-federalists. The federalists believed in "the common good" over individual rights but this doesn't make them communists so don't even try to make it about communism and marxism. The anti-federalists believed in individual and state liberties over the common good. Guess who created the Constitution? The Federalists. My point is that this nation was founded on the ideals that yes, individual rights and freedoms are extremely important but one's own rights should never come before fellow Americans. Even if you don't have COVID, you must at least make an effort into contributing to the common health of America. Even if you think masks or useless or that you know you don't have COVID, you're setting an example for your fellow Americans. So yeah, why don't you just suck it up and wear a mask.

 

[Nuber]

It's not a matter of you being a monster. You're not a monster. You're a proud American who values their rights. And that is perfectly fine.

Thank you for that. My only contradiction would be that I have both inherent human right to be free, and those basic rights are also well established in the constitution. Wearing a mask or a red letter is no different in principle. The intended consequences behind the government mandate does not change the basic principle of loss of liberty. Rationalizing removal of freedom is nothing more than acquiescing to governmental dictatorial rule. This may sound like a severe position to some, but liberty must be defended, or it will be lost.

However, this argument can go back to the times pre-Constitution where there were two groups: the federalists and the anti-federalists. The federalists believed in "the common good" over individual rights but this doesn't make them communists so don't even try to make it about communism and marxism. The anti-federalists believed in individual and state liberties over the common good. Guess who created the Constitution? The Federalists. My point is that this nation was founded on the ideals that yes, individual rights and freedoms are extremely important but one's own rights should never come before fellow Americans.

All the way up to the last few words I am with you. I am only responsible for my actions. You are responsible for your actions. I SHOULD only be in violation of law once the government can PROVE that I have affected someone else's rights in a negative manner. I am speaking in terms of government intervention, not in terms of morality.

Otherwise mask use would have been mandated over a century ago. Flu, SARS, and all sorts of other diseases kill - why have we not been mandated in the public interest to wear masks prior to this year? People have been dying from disease since the inception of humanity - why wasn't mask use mandated the moment the mask was invented? We are behaving (collectively) in an absolutely unique manner in all of history, and the conditions behind the behavior are not unique. Why?

Fear of the unknown is the phrase you are looking for.

And so my main point still remains unchallenged - no one can prove that I have negatively affected anyone else by not wearing a mask. Therefore I should not be restricted in freedoms. At all.

Even if you don't have COVID, you must at least make an effort into contributing to the common health of America.

As I have had respirator training multiple times in my career, I have reached a rational conclusion as to what is valid for minimizing the spread. The actions that I take include distancing, washing, staying at home when I exhibit symptoms, testing for COVID when I have had COVID style symptoms, and staying at home until I pass the test.

These are the actions I take based on reason, research, and personal experience. Masks do not prevent the spread unless you are wearing a medical grade respirator rated for micron level pathogen protection in combination with eye protection and utilized with proper donning and doffing procedures in a sterilized environment. Every single word of that last sentence must be followed, or you have broken containment.

Even if you think masks or useless or that you know you don't have COVID, you're setting an example for your fellow Americans. So yeah, why don't you just suck it up and wear a mask.

Because I value everyone's freedom above your fear of the unknown. Protect yourself as you see fit. I am not responsible for you - and I should not be mandated to be responsible for you. That kind of reasoning is a severe slippery slope, and I am not interested in conceding such power to one elected official (in my case a governor).

 

[joelchung]

Thank you for that. My only contradiction would be that I have both inherent human right to be free, and those basic rights are also well established in the constitution. Wearing a mask or a red letter is no different in principle. The intended consequences behind the government mandate does not change the basic principle of loss of liberty. Rationalizing removal of freedom is nothing more than acquiescing to governmental dictatorial rule. This may sound like a severe position to some, but liberty must be defended, or it will be lost.



All the way up to the last few words I am with you. I am only responsible for my actions. You are responsible for your actions. I SHOULD only be in violation of law once the government can PROVE that I have affected someone else's rights in a negative manner. I am speaking in terms of government intervention, not in terms of morality.

Otherwise mask use would have been mandated over a century ago. Flu, SARS, and all sorts of other diseases kill - why have we not been mandated in the public interest to wear masks prior to this year? People have been dying from disease since the inception of humanity - why wasn't mask use mandated the moment the mask was invented? We are behaving (collectively) in an absolutely unique manner in all of history, and the conditions behind the behavior are not unique. Why?

Fear of the unknown is the phrase you are looking for.

And so my main point still remains unchallenged - no one can prove that I have negatively affected anyone else by not wearing a mask. Therefore I should not be restricted in freedoms. At all.



As I have had respirator training multiple times in my career, I have reached a rational conclusion as to what is valid for minimizing the spread. The actions that I take include distancing, washing, staying at home when I exhibit symptoms, testing for COVID when I have had COVID style symptoms, and staying at home until I pass the test.

These are the actions I take based on reason, research, and personal experience. Masks do not prevent the spread unless you are wearing a medical grade respirator rated for micron level pathogen protection in combination with eye protection and utilized with proper donning and doffing procedures in a sterilized environment. Every single word of that last sentence must be followed, or you have broken containment.



Because I value everyone's freedom above your fear of the unknown. Protect yourself as you see fit. I am not responsible for you - and I should not be mandated to be responsible for you. That kind of reasoning is a severe slippery slope, and I am not interested in conceding such power to one elected official (in my case a governor).

But I disagree. People way more educated than you have said time and time again that even a cloth mask traps droplets and slows the spread of COVID. Here is my source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
By the way, the Mayo Clinic is a state of the art, world-renowned research hospital with the best of the best as their staff so yeah I trust their words more than some guy who has some respirator training. If you aren't ignorant enough, you will read that and see that your statement saying "Masks do not prevent the spread unless you are wearing a medical grade respirator" is misleading and dangerous ignorant thinking. Look. I value my rights just as much as you but at least I'm intelligent enough to see that the right to be healthy. In the 1948 UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it is stated that "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services." Based on that thinking, I don't mind sacrificing my right to wear and to not wear a mask if it means seeing the number of cases in America decrease. How can you sit here and debate that masks don't work when other developed countries (such as various countries in Europe) have implemented mask mandates and even nation-wide lockdowns and seen their number of cases plummet. To sit here and argue that you shouldn't be responsible for me goes against the very rights you're using as your point. What is so patriotic and so American about being selfish and disregarding the health of your fellow Americans? For future reference, don't come into a debate and argue that you're right because you've had respirator training a few times. Just because I took CPR training to be a lifeguard does not mean I am just as qualified to speak on it as a cardiothoracic surgeon. Please, for a moment, look past your own ignorance and realize that if COVID isn't stopped soon, there'll be a large number of Americans who won't have rights to protect... BECAUSE THEY'RE DEAD

 

[Nuber]

But I disagree. People way more educated than you have said time and time again that even a cloth mask traps droplets and slows the spread of COVID. Here is my source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
By the way, the Mayo Clinic is a state of the art, world-renowned research hospital with the best of the best as their staff so yeah I trust their words more than some guy who has some respirator training.

I fully concede that a Mayo Clinic report has more impact and scientific backing than some guy with respirator training. I do not claim to be more than I am. I was pointing out where I was coming from from a disclosure standpoint. In other words - I have training, but there are entities out there that may have more technical expertise than I do.

If you aren't ignorant enough, you will read that and see that your statement saying "Masks do not prevent the spread unless you are wearing a medical grade respirator" is misleading and dangerous ignorant thinking.

No. Completely wrong because you skip right over the word that matters in my sentence. Prevent. Your Mayo Clinic reference agrees with me. Masks do not "prevent".

And I quote from your provided source -

"Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus."

"Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus when they are widely used by people in public settings."

Note the bolded words. No rational human with an understanding of the English language can conclude that wearing a mask prevents the spread. This is according to your source. Note that this is a source that you and I both agree is more appropriate to reference than some guy on line with respirator training (even though my mask use statements are confirmed by your source). In essence what your source has done is confirm my position, not weaken it.

Ignorance - yours. And it is rampant.

Also keep in mind that my statement regarding proper mask wearing coincides with your referenced article in the "how to wear a cloth face mask" section. Note the use of the word "sanitized" in that section.

It feels good to have my training confirmed by the Mayo Clinic. Feather in my cap, thanks for that.