Anti-Jew or Anti-zionism? (1 Viewer)

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Why does the Muslim world hate Israel? I think it's good old fashioned anti-semitism and that anti-zionism is really just code for anti-Jew.

 

[Alastor]

Let's be pedantic.

Semitic:

Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

They're not really being anti-semitic, as they're not anti-Arabic.

And let's remember that once upon a time, this was the same people. Within recorded history they were one group. There are no other two races on Earth that we consider so different from one another today, that were so closely related within the last 2000 years.

I believe that the anti-jew feeling stemmed at first from an anti-zionist position. However, in a world full of chaos, where anger is often mis-directed either on purpose or on accident, where there are mountains of frustration and a nice juicy target to take it all out on... It begins to feed itself, manifest itself, and can grow into a monster of its own rather quickly.

Today, I feel that both of these traits (anti-jew sentiment and anti-zionist sentiment) are alive and well, in roughly equal proportion and passion within this region of the world.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

How about: Anti-Anything Not Muslim.

 

[Deegan]

How about: Anti-Anything Not Muslim.

That sounds about right, even the Jews have their history, they once believed, and some still believe, you are either a Jew, or a Gentile, and we know which they thought better of. Today with the Muslims it's, Muslim, or Infidel, these religious beliefs are at the root of all this trouble, and they need to be re-thought re-examined.

 

[Iriemon]

While the Muslims are not the only culture or religion to have exhibited anti-jewish sentiments, I reckon its more about that crummy little stip of dirt more than anything, and the cultural pride that goes along with fighting over it.

If the jews had decided to re-settle in, say, the Texas panhandle rather than Palestine, do you think we'd be having having all this fuss with the Arabs in the ME?

 

[Deegan]

While the Muslims are not the only culture or religion to have exhibited anti-jewish sentiments, I reckon its more about that crummy little stip of dirt more than anything, and the cultural pride that goes along with fighting over it.

If the jews had decided to re-settle in, say, the Texas panhandle rather than Palestine, do you think we'd be having having all this fuss with the Arabs in the ME?

No, and I really enjoy this opportunity to talk about this sir!

Of course not, this little strip of land means nothing to those of us who take it to have it, it means very little to us. To those who have followed the last thousand years, they tend to get a little picky about certain things, religion being the first. They also hold other values, these values make them different, different for a good reason. We need to weed out the bad reasons, reasons like slapping your wife around, imagine this happened in every other home in your community, now you know what it's like to live in the Middle East!:shock:

That is all for now, I get very angry.

 

[jamesrage]

Why does the Muslim world hate Israel? I think it's good old fashioned anti-semitism and that anti-zionism is really just code for anti-Jew.

I agree with that statement..

 

[DeeJayH]

I fall into the school of GySgts line of thinking
the powerful use the Jews to deflect the failure of 'modern' islamic states, those in power have used the poverty, despair and degradation as to unite the failed society, not to achieve progress, but destruction of the infidels

 

[Alastor]

No, and I really enjoy this opportunity to talk about this sir!

Of course not, this little strip of land means nothing to those of us who take it to have it, it means very little to us. To those who have followed the last thousand years, they tend to get a little picky about certain things, religion being the first. They also hold other values, these values make them different, different for a good reason. We need to weed out the bad reasons, reasons like slapping your wife around, imagine this happened in every other home in your community, now you know what it's like to live in the Middle East!:shock:

That is all for now, I get very angry.

Not only is that a terrible analogy, but it paints a completely inaccurate picture - and it's impossible for me to tell exactly what your point was.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

While the Muslims are not the only culture or religion to have exhibited anti-jewish sentiments, I reckon its more about that crummy little stip of dirt more than anything, and the cultural pride that goes along with fighting over it.

If the jews had decided to re-settle in, say, the Texas panhandle rather than Palestine, do you think we'd be having having all this fuss with the Arabs in the ME?

Yes from Nasralla the head of Hesbollah:

If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)

If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli. (New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

 

[Deegan]

Not only is that a terrible analogy, but it paints a completely inaccurate picture - and it's impossible for me to tell exactly what your point was.

You have no idea then, as violence against women runs rampant in the Arab world, among other places. It was not an anology at all, so it's no surprise that you're confused, I don't know how to make it any clearer for you, sorry.

 

[Joby]

If we're talking about pre-Israel, and maybe even Israel in its first few years, the answer would be anti-zionist.

But this conflict has been going on so long and every side knows it's playing for keeps that in the Palestinian mentality it's probably zionist=jew=occupier=legitamite target.

Not to be confused with palestinian=anti-israel=terrorist=legitamite target.

 

[MSgt]

I posted this before....

Jews have always been the historical scapegoat for all people. It goes way beyond 1949 and it extends to countless cultures. Muslims in the Middle East look down upon them as inferior (religious based) while the the Romans merely treated Jews as second class citizens and after the Jewish Revolt, the Romans disciplined them by trying to erase them from the land and even re-naming it. After settling into Europe and succeeding where other people were failing, they became a target for genocide to satisfy one man's thirst for conquest. Today, they are back in the Middle East and being attacked by suicide bombers daily and defending their right to live. The Gaza strip showed the world that it simply doesn't matter what Israelis do and the world showed Israelis that it unwittingly supports terror.

Some scholars believe that "anti-Semitism" was an invention of the Egyptian prejudices well before Christ, where they were slaves. This prejudice culminated until the Jews crossed into the "Promise Land." (Bible tales of Moses not being part of the history I type of). Then of course, it was the Christian that labeled an entire Jewish people as "Murderers of Christ."

A couple centuries ago, they started to be seen as a globally distinct group, regardless of their religious practice, and that they were inferior or worthy of animosity. They were regarded as a separate race regardless of national birth. With the rise of racial anti-Semitism in the Middle East and Europe, conspiracy theories about Jewish plots in which Jews were somehow acting in concert to dominate the world became a popular form of anti-Semitic expression (Something some individuals on this site are fond of ignorantly spewing still today). This was all well before Hitler was born. (Were the Jews unsuccessful and less creative, maybe they could have spared themselves the German led holocaust.)

Ironically, Palestinians have also always been treated as second class citizens through history; especially by their fellow Arabs...as have the Kurds. Both of these people are regarded as being as creative and as unpredictable as Israelis. Another humorous ironic note is that throughout history, the one individual that stands out from the rest as a friend to the Jews was Cyrus the Great - a Persian who freed them from Babylon and allowed them to return to Israel. (Of course, Khomeini never preached this bit of history when he preached about a re-emergence of an Islamic Cyrus kingdom.)

So, the persecution of Jews has always been a religious, social, and scapegoated endeavor. This is why I support Israelis. Americans are also the scapegoat of the Middle East for every single one of their self-prescribed failures. It is a predictable human emotion to become jealous of a person who is more successful. All through history, we have seen peoples persecuted for their successes by the failures, who rally behind hate and jealousy. The Middle East suffers from the same narcotic of choice as the 1943 Nazi - "BLAME." Unfortunately, in history, every culture has been defined by the Radical.

The sooner the world discovers that they must eventually choose between the past and the future, the sooner we can get started on letting go of the past and finally fighting our determined enemies who remain hopelessly locked in the passed down traditions that will not work in the 21st century. There is no such thing as "Muslim land." Anymore than there is a thing as "Christian land" or "Jewish land."

 

[Alastor]

You have no idea then, as violence against women runs rampant in the Arab world, among other places. It was not an anology at all, so it's no surprise that you're confused, I don't know how to make it any clearer for you, sorry.

I've spent several years in that area, and I've studied them in college for four more. I have friends there that are natives, and I talk to them semi-regularly.

I know a lot about that area.

I'm not saying violence against women doesn't occur there. I'm saying your hyperbolic statements and analogies are over the top, and stretch way beyond the reality of the situation.

I'm also saying you didn't explain yourself clearly, so your point was ambiguous.

 

[Deegan]

I've spent several years in that area, and I've studied them in college for four more. I have friends there that are natives, and I talk to them semi-regularly.

I know a lot about that area.

I'm not saying violence against women doesn't occur there. I'm saying your hyperbolic statements and analogies are over the top, and stretch way beyond the reality of the situation.

I'm also saying you didn't explain yourself clearly, so your point was ambiguous.

So you went on a vacation there, and now you think you know all there is to know, as far as your "college education", you may want to try and get your money back. It is widely reported that one in three womem are the victim of rape, assualt, and other forms of violence in their lifetime in the M.E, and North Africa. One only has to surf the net for a matter of seconds to find the relevant stories to support my claim, perhaps you should read these links, and truly educate yourself, because your "friends" they have obviously lied to you!

http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGACT770382004

http://www.lib.umich.edu/area/Near.East/makar65.html

http://www.secularislam.org/women/liberation.htm

http://www.whrnet.org/docs/news-030331.htm

http://web.uccs.edu/lases/Topics_Women_MidEast.pdf#search='violence%20against%20women%20in%20the%20middle%20east'

And on and on and on!

 

[Picaro]

I think it's good old fashioned anti-semitism and that anti-zionism is really just code for anti-Jew.

Of course it's antisemitism driving them. They're genocidal racists and proto-Nazis. What is interesting is there is never any discussions of so-called 'Arab' expansionism and that whole history that parallels the Zionist movement.


I see we have yet another total fabrication about the meaning of the word 'antisemitism' in the second post. LOL ... it's like the holocaust deniers, endlessly repeating lies and myths over and over again, no matter how many times they get thoroughly shot down.

There is always fresh dupes coming along, getting fed BS somewhere and thinking they've just 'discovered' some 'enlightenment', and then they sally forth to repeat the nonsense yet again on numerous message boards, as if nobody has ever spammed boards with the nonsense before.

Lots of supposedly educated people take Philosophy 101, Intro to Logic, but obviously never follow it up with Philosophy 102, and ever learn to actually apply it. Yet another failure of school systems to provide a true liberal education.

 

[Alastor]

So you went on a vacation there, and now you think you know all there is to know, as far as your "college education", you may want to try and get your money back. It is widely reported that one in three womem are the victim of rape, assualt, and other forms of violence in their lifetime in the M.E, and North Africa. One only has to surf the net for a matter of seconds to find the relevant stories to support my claim, perhaps you should read these links, and truly educate yourself, because your "friends" they have obviously lied to you!

http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGACT770382004

http://www.lib.umich.edu/area/Near.East/makar65.html

http://www.secularislam.org/women/liberation.htm

http://www.whrnet.org/docs/news-030331.htm

http://web.uccs.edu/lases/Topics_Women_MidEast.pdf#search='violence%20against%20women%20in%20the%20middle%20east'

And on and on and on!

You lose credibility every time you speak.

No, I wasn't on vacation there. I spent a year and a half in that region during the first Gulf War. I've spent time there since. I've studied it a lot, and talked first-hand to many of the people that actually live there.

Attempt to discredit my education all you like. I don't think most people here agree that college is a waste of time, uselss, or that I need to get my money back. Rather I think they'd encourage you to persue similar endeavors.

Your petty remark and childish insinuations only serve to further undermine the preposterous assertions you've already made.

As I said before, yes there is indeed some violence towards women in that society. I never denied that. It's worse in other places, better in most places. China, almost all of Africa, Korea, Banghledesh, Nepal... They're all in the running.

Your remarks are well beyond the scope of reason though, and your attempt to make this personally merely reassures me that you know you've over-stated your case.

 

[Picaro]

I see nothing in Deegan's post that is 'over the top'. You're not the only one who knows Arabs and other Muslims. I went to college, too, and had 'Palestinian' freinds, and Iranian friends, both exiles and Khomeni supporters. I couldn't have parties because most of them do not get along, and I didn't want to throw parties and not invite them.

I also lived over there, in Libya, Saudi, Kuwait, and a couple of others, and also visited Israel acouple of times. The difference is like night and day between the 'cultures' or whatever you want to call them. I'll take Israel any time, thank you, as it is much more civilized.

 

[Picaro]

t is widely reported that one in three womem are the victim of rape, assualt, and other forms of violence in their lifetime in the M.E, and North Africa.

Yes indeed. It's not always true in a lot of Muslim cultures, but it is certainly the case in the Arab countries for the most part, I think Bahrain and Kuwait may be exceptions, but who knows.

 

[Gardener]

I see we have yet another total fabrication about the meaning of the word 'antisemitism' in the second post. LOL ... it's like the holocaust deniers, endlessly repeating lies and myths over and over again, no matter how many times they get thoroughly shot down.

.

It's so very formulaic, isn't it? How many times have you seen this semantic ruse being used? 50times? 100?

Do you think this one has ever heard of Wilhelm Marr or is actually interested in the etymology of the term he is attempting to redefine?

 

[Alastor]

I see we have yet another total fabrication about the meaning of the word 'antisemitism' in the second post...

From dictionary.com:

Semitic:

1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

So... Yeah.

And it goes to show the intelligence and credibility of the rest of your commentary too. To be honest, you seem so much like Deegan I could mistake one of you for the other. Or would that really be a mistake?

 

[Hobbes]

No, and I really enjoy this opportunity to talk about this sir!

Of course not, this little strip of land means nothing to those of us who take it to have it, it means very little to us. To those who have followed the last thousand years, they tend to get a little picky about certain things, religion being the first. They also hold other values, these values make them different, different for a good reason. We need to weed out the bad reasons, reasons like slapping your wife around, imagine this happened in every other home in your community, now you know what it's like to live in the Middle East!:shock:

That is all for now, I get very angry.

That part does seem over the top. You claim there that 1 out of every 2 households in the Middle East has a woman being hurt.

Then you claim 1 in 3 women in the Middle East is the victim of violence. Considering the actual statistic is about women in the WHOLE WORLD...

"It is the statistic used in the 2003 United Nations Women’s Development Fund’s (UNIFEM) report on violence against women worldwide. One in three women in the world will be raped, beaten, sexually coerced, trafficked or otherwise abused in her lifetime."
http://www.oneinthreewomen.com/campaign.htm

Heck, even the link you provided said it was the whole world.

You're statement was over the top, unless you care to prove 1 out of 2 women in the Middle East is the victim of violence.

What irks me is that you single out the Middle East only; this is a problem everywhere.

 

[DeeJayH]

That part does seem over the top. You claim there that 1 out of every 2 households in the Middle East has a woman being hurt.

Then you claim 1 in 3 women in the Middle East is the victim of violence. Considering the actual statistic is about women in the WHOLE WORLD...

"It is the statistic used in the 2003 United Nations Women’s Development Fund’s (UNIFEM) report on violence against women worldwide. One in three women in the world will be raped, beaten, sexually coerced, trafficked or otherwise abused in her lifetime."
http://www.oneinthreewomen.com/campaign.htm

Heck, even the link you provided said it was the whole world.

You're statement was over the top, unless you care to prove 1 out of 2 women in the Middle East is the victim of violence.

What irks me is that you single out the Middle East only; this is a problem everywhere.

animals
deserving of no respect
Kill em all, let god sort it out
this scum must be opposed and eradicated

 

[TheNextEra]

animals
deserving of no respect
Kill em all, let god sort it out
this scum must be opposed and eradicated

Now Now, no need to be that hard on the Bush Administration. :lol:

 

[jamesrage]

From dictionary.com:



So... Yeah.

And it goes to show the intelligence and credibility of the rest of your commentary too. To be honest, you seem so much like Deegan I could mistake one of you for the other. Or would that really be a mistake?

The word antisemitism has it's own meaning.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisemitism
1. Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
2. Discrimination against Jews.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/antisemitism?view=uk
hostility to or prejudice against Jews

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=anti-Semitism

hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group



Nowhere do any of these defintions mention hatred of arabs.So since antisemitism does not mean hatred of arabs you are trying to fabricate a word.Your attempt to alter the definition of antisemitism would be like someone saying badass means a misbehaving donkey.