Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier' close to tipping point

[Lord of Planar]

That doesn't even make sense.

Are the meds low today or were they too high yesterday?

At least I know where coal and oil come from.

You told me "Well, you're dishonest or you're uneducated on the topic. Which is it?"

I'm saying that fits you. Not me.

 

[istodolez]

You told me "Well, you're dishonest or you're uneducated on the topic. Which is it?"

I'm saying that fits you. Not me.

LOL. Did you finally get around to assigning a shortcut on your computer to type in your patented "Nuh-huh...I'm not that...that's YOU!" junior high school come-back.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Well, you're dishonest or you're uneducated on the topic. Which is it?

How about we do get back on topic please. Show us all I don't know the science.

Look at post #89. Do the math. Show me I'm wrong.

I used my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics for density of the sea water based on the salt mass percent. My starting value was 35 ppt of NaCl by weight. I used 1.332 billion cubic kilometers for the volume of the ocean. I used 25.27 million gigatons for the mass of the ice to be melted. I calculated how much lower the salinity would be, and determined the volume of the ocean at the reduced salinity and added water. The amount of ice I used wasn't necessary accurate. I simplified it to the mass of 70 meters covering the surface area of the ocean.

Sure, I didn't use all the components of the ocean, but salt alone is close enough.

Care to tell us your results?

I'll bet you are the one uneducated on the topic.

 

[istodolez]

I used my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics for density of the sea water based on the salt mass percent. My starting value was 35 ppt of NaCl by weight. I used 1.332 billion cubic kilometers for the volume of the ocean. I used 25.27 million gigatons for the mass of the ice to be melted. I calculated how much lower the salinity would be, and determined the volume of the ocean at the reduced salinity and added water. The amount of ice I used wasn't necessary accurate. I simplified it to the mass of 70 meters covering the surface area of the ocean.

Sure, I didn't use all the components of the ocean, but salt alone is close enough.

Car to tell us your results?

I don't care to debate over the amount of expansion of ice in salt water. Melt ice in water and the water level, on average won't increase. If there's any differentiation around melting it in salt water I doubt it is significant.

Ice doesn't raise the level of water in a glass as it melts precisely because of the crystalline structure of ice which is less dense than water (fresh water). So I've no dog in whatever fight you were having with the other poster.

 

[Lord of Planar]

How about we do get back on topic please. Show us all I don't know the science.

Look at post #89. Do the math. Show me I'm wrong.

I used my Handbook of Chemistry and Physics for density of the sea water based on the salt mass percent. My starting value was 35 ppt of NaCl by weight. I used 1.332 billion cubic kilometers for the volume of the ocean. I used 25.27 million gigatons for the mass of the ice to be melted. I calculated how much lower the salinity would be, and determined the volume of the ocean at the reduced salinity and added water. The amount of ice I used wasn't necessary accurate. I simplified it to the mass of 70 meters covering the surface area of the ocean.

Sure, I didn't use all the components of the ocean, but salt alone is close enough.

Car to tell us your results?

I don't care to debate over the amount of expansion of ice in salt water. Melt ice in water and the water level, on average won't increase. If there's any differentiation around melting it in salt water I doubt it is significant.

Ice doesn't raise the level of water in a glass as it melts precisely because of the crystalline structure of ice which is less dense than water (fresh water). So I've no dog in whatever fight you were having with the other poster.

But there is a difference. Melted ice in a saline solution will increase the water level greater than the displacement of the solid ice. I guess you don't wish to back up your claim that I don't understand. But if you don't do this, people will wonder if you really do.

It's not that hard. Not if you understand science. Of course, you wouldn't have a clue how to do it if you are as inept as you claim I am.

 

[Antiwar]

The article is describing floating shelve ice.
The question is how much sea level increase comes from floating sea ice melting.
As it turns out, not a lot more, the ice floats slightly higher in salt water, but the difference is difficult to detect in a simple experiment.

That's not the main thrust of the article. The main thrust is that the ice shelf of the glacier is melting faster than was previously thought because they found more water flowing, which is working on unpinning the ice shelf. The unpinning of the ice shelf seriously risks the stability of the glacier.

The glacier is in a position such that it stabilizes a bunch of other glaciers. If this glacier slides into the ocean, they believe that a lot more glaciers will also slide into the ocean. They referred to the glacier as being like a cork in a bottle.

At the best it seems like you're focusing on a partial truth.

I believe the scientific community that is studying this glacier is aware that floating ice that melts doesn't significantly raise the level of the ocean.

What is the thrust of your commentary in this thread?

 

[NatMorton]

Came across this list some years ago and have been updating it from time to time ever since:

• "Global Warming Tipping Point Close?"--headline, ClimateArk.com, Jan. 27, 2004
• "Warming Hits 'Tipping Point' "--headline, Guardian, Aug. 11, 2005
• "Earth at the Tipping Point: Global Warming Heats Up"--headline, Time, March 26, 2006
• "Global Warming 'Tipping Points' Reached, Scientist Says"--headline, NationalGeographic.com, Dec. 14, 2007
• "Twenty Years Later: Tipping Points Near on Global Warming"--headline, Puffington Host, June 23, 2008
• "Global Warming: Those Tipping Points Are Closer Than You Think"--headline, WSJ.com, April 29, 2009
• "Have We Reached the Tipping Point for Planet Earth?"--video title, StudioTalk.tv, May 11, 2010
• "Must-Read Hansen and Sato Paper: We Are at a Climate Tipping Point That, Once Crossed, Enables Multi-Meter Sea Level Rise This Century"--headline, ThinkProgress.org, Jan. 20, 2011
• "Earth: Have We Reached an Environmental Tipping Point?"--headline, BBC website, June 15, 2012
• "In spite of the continued released [sic] of 90 million tons of global warming pollution every day into the atmosphere, as if it's an open sewer, we are now seeing the approach of a global political tipping point."--Al Gore, interview with Washington Post, Aug. 21, 2013
• "World close to tipping point on global warming, UN body warns" Irish Times-Mar 31, 2014
• "Tipping Point Nears for 'Emerging Flooding Crisis'" - Climate Central-Dec 18, 2014
• "Boreal forest being driven to tipping point by climate change, study ..." - CBC.ca-Aug 21, 2015
• "Glacier melt shows a climate change tipping point. We must pay ..." - The Guardian-Sep 28, 2015
• "Goodbye World: We've Passed the Carbon Tipping Point For Good" - Motherboard-Sep 28, 2016
• "Arctic scientists have warned that the increasingly rapid melting of the ice cap risks triggering 19 “tipping points” in the region that could have catastrophic consequences around the globe." - The Guardian-Nov 25, 2016
• "Earth warming to climate tipping point, warns study" - BBC News-Nov 30, 2016
• "Earth will likely warm way beyond the crucial tipping point that the ..." - Markets Insider-Dec 15, 2017
• "But still, Derocher says there will come a point when the number of ice-free days reaches a tipping point and the [polar bear] populations will start to tank." - Natural Resources Defense Council-Dec 22, 2017
• "Final countdown to climate chaos underway ... will soon pass a tipping point if people around the world remain indifferent to it." - News24, May 24, 2018
• "Europe's Largest Asset Manager Sees `Tipping Point' on Climate" - Bloomberg, May 31 2018
• "'Tipping points' could exacerbate climate crisis, scientists fear" - The Guardian, Oct 9, 2018
• "2018: A Tipping Point for Climate Change" -- Forbes-Dec 30, 2018
• "Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a 'Tipping Point,' Scientists Say" -- New York Times-Jan 21, 2019
• "Climate change tipping point could be coming sooner than we think. -- Science Daily-Jan 23, 2019
• "Are We Watching the Arctic Pass a Tipping Point This Summer?" - Gizmodo, July 30, 2019
• "4 climate tipping points the planet is facing" - World Economic Forum, August 2, 2019
• "The climate change ‘tipping point’ has already arrived for these 70 U.S. counties - grist,com, August 14, 2019
• "Prince Charles Sets Yet Another Climate-change -Tipping Point'" - New American, July 18, 2019
• "Earth’s Oceans At A Tipping Point, Landmark UN Climate Change Report Warns" - Forbes, September 25, 2019
• "Global Climate Tipping Points Could Arrive In a Matter of Years" - Bloomberg, March 10, 2020
• "Climate tipping point ecosystem collapses may come faster than thought: Studies" - Mongabay, May 11, 2020
• "Nine climate tipping points now 'active,' warn scientists" - ScienceDaily, November 27, 2019
• "Tipping point for the climate can already be a reality in East Asia" - EurekAlert!, November 30, 2020
• "HUMANITY HAS REACHED A NEW, TERRIFYING TIPPING POINT, STUDY FINDS" - Inverse, December 9, 2020

When it comes to climate science, we’re always going to be at a “tipping point.”

... and it's never difficult to find fresh examples to add to the list:

• "Earth Draws Closer to Climate Change Tipping Points After Another Year of Record Heat" -- Insurance Journal, Jan 8, 2021
• "Evidence of Antarctic glacier's tipping point confirmed" -- ScienceDaily , April 1, 2021
• "Australia is streaking towards a climate tipping point. A major new report gives us 10 years to fix it" SBS News, April 15, 2021

It's enough to make one tipsy.

 

[lemmiwinx]

Well good for you.

Are you worried about a mile high ice sheet breaking off of Antarctica and drowning millions of poor people living on beaches around the world? Well then the Green Party needs your financial support. We have a website just google us. PayPal is one of our sponsors by the way.

 

[weaver2]

... and it's never difficult to find fresh examples to add to the list:

• "Earth Draws Closer to Climate Change Tipping Points After Another Year of Record Heat" -- Insurance Journal, Jan 8, 2021
• "Evidence of Antarctic glacier's tipping point confirmed" -- ScienceDaily , April 1, 2021
• "Australia is streaking towards a climate tipping point. A major new report gives us 10 years to fix it" SBS News, April 15, 2021

It's enough to make one tipsy.

Agree, there is too much hype. On the other hand the amount of stuff coming from the climate change nay-sayers is of equal length and much less accurate.

Everybody is ignoring the real problems sea level rise with create, and it's not keeping water out of cities and towns. The Dutch learned how to live below sea level a long time ago. Technology will fix that one way or another. What nobody wants to deal with are the migrations of vast numbers of people off of land underwater. If you place a map of the areas that rising seas will inundate on top of a map showing high population density the areas match remarkably well in most of the areas.

The recent migrations of Muslims out of the ME has not been handled much better than the US's handling of refugees out of Central America. Huge portions of India, China, Southeast Asia and Africa will be underwater. There is really only one solution. Incentives for world wide population reduction and everybody is avoiding the topic.

 

[weaver2]

 

[smallvoice]

So you admit that you didn’t know enough science to know that the melting of sea ice would cause a rise in the level of the oceans (see your post #4). Okay then.

So you admit that you believed that melting sea ice would raise the sea level by 10 feet. Okay then.

 

[longview]

That's not the main thrust of the article. The main thrust is that the ice shelf of the glacier is melting faster than was previously thought because they found more water flowing, which is working on unpinning the ice shelf. The unpinning of the ice shelf seriously risks the stability of the glacier.

The glacier is in a position such that it stabilizes a bunch of other glaciers. If this glacier slides into the ocean, they believe that a lot more glaciers will also slide into the ocean. They referred to the glacier as being like a cork in a bottle.

At the best it seems like you're focusing on a partial truth.

I believe the scientific community that is studying this glacier is aware that floating ice that melts doesn't significantly raise the level of the ocean.

What is the thrust of your commentary in this thread?

There was a second article cited,
Floating ice
About how even floating ice would increase the sea level, but the amount of additional level increase from melting floating ice , is minimal compared to ice now on land.
We also have to consider the time frame for the melting of glaciers in the Antarctic.