Another Story Prayers Forgotten Prayers Answered

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

How ridiculous. "And, unlike Europe, the US population is growing fast - from 200 million in 1970, to nearly 300 million today and a projected 420 million in 2050" www.peopleandplanet.net/doc.php?id=199&section=2

Are there 100 million immigrants where you live? Because there aren't where I am.



I think it is ridiculous to try to look to single, simple causes for the behavior nof individuals, and even more ridiculous to look to single, simple causes for societal trends. If anything, the downtrend in personal responsibility is most directly related (and thus I lay MY trap), as it is the single greatest cause of the decrease in education's effectiveness; as education becomes less effective, and students become more frustrated and hopeless, they tend to lash out. But that is only my opinion, and certainly not something I can prove.




That same music also depicts men as pimps and gangstas, soldiers and hustlers; they do not see it as realistic. Kids are not stupid, whatever you may think; they look at a video game that shows people being murdered and think, "There's a video game showing people being murdered." They do not think, "I guess I'll go out and shoot a lot of people, just like that."
Children who commit violent acts are violent children. The music doesn't make them violent, nor do video games; nor does the legality of abortion.





But you accept the slavery of women as par for the course.

Again you call accepting responsibility for ones actions Slavery of women?

Your position is not a moral one, sir. Your personal tragedy is terrible, but it doesn't justify slavery.

Again it is not slavery I am justifing it is accepting responsibility for ones actions. A concept you fail to grasp.

Those women are just as innocent of a crime as are the children

If a women choses to abort, murder or kill a baby in the womb they are not innocent.

your Puritan views of sex notwithstanding; if I remember right, you have said you are not against sex,

So if I am not against sex in fact I enjoy it. It is the best thing since sliced bread Now that makes my views on sex Puritan?? Hmmm stop drinking that coffee or is it the tea?

even though the only way to prevent all unwanted pregnancies is simply to prevent all pregnancies.

Now your saying all pregnacies are unwanted? I know you did not mean that but your Pro Abortion side is showing. Maybe your a Population control person.

Before you leap into your birth control argument again, let me give you a different hyopothetical. A woman marries the man of her dreams; they are young and healthy, and he is gainfully employed. They decide the time is right to have a family, since his income can support the two of them; so they conceive a child. And two months later, the husband dies in an accident.
Now she is mourning, she no longer has an income, and she has no nest egg, as he had no insurance, being a young man. If this woman decides not to bring that baby to term, are you honestly going to say that she should not be allowed to change her mind? Would you take the choice away from her, tell her she should have used birth control?

Yes If they are married the child and her will be entitled to Social Security benifits. You can not justify the killing of an innocent human being. Adoption is an option.

Please do not think you can state that this woman would surely want the child, or that she could turn to her family for help. It is a hypothetical situation; take it as a given that she wants to end the pregnancy, immeidately, and answer the question. Should she have used birth control?

Abortion should never be considered birth control. I guess you finally answered that question.

Or should she lose her right to control her body?

She does not lose the right to control her own body, She simply loses the right to control some one elses body. If you have sex you should be ready to accept the consequences of that sex no matter what they are. If not do not have sex. But be warn not having sex can lead to a rare Hawian disease. Namely Lack a nookie.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

How ridiculous. "And, unlike Europe, the US population is growing fast - from 200 million in 1970, to nearly 300 million today and a projected 420 million in 2050" www.peopleandplanet.net/doc.php?id=199&section=2

Are there 100 million immigrants where you live? Because there aren't where I am.



I think it is ridiculous to try to look to single, simple causes for the behavior nof individuals, and even more ridiculous to look to single, simple causes for societal trends. If anything, the downtrend in personal responsibility is most directly related (and thus I lay MY trap), as it is the single greatest cause of the decrease in education's effectiveness; as education becomes less effective, and students become more frustrated and hopeless, they tend to lash out. But that is only my opinion, and certainly not something I can prove.




That same music also depicts men as pimps and gangstas, soldiers and hustlers; they do not see it as realistic. Kids are not stupid, whatever you may think; they look at a video game that shows people being murdered and think, "There's a video game showing people being murdered." They do not think, "I guess I'll go out and shoot a lot of people, just like that."
Children who commit violent acts are violent children. The music doesn't make them violent, nor do video games; nor does the legality of abortion.





But you accept the slavery of women as par for the course. Your position is not a moral one, sir. Your personal tragedy is terrible, but it doesn't justify slavery. Those women are just as innocent of a crime as are the children, your Puritan views of sex notwithstanding; if I remember right, you have said you are not against sex, even though the only way to prevent all unwanted pregnancies is simply to prevent all pregnancies.

Before you leap into your birth control argument again, let me give you a different hyopothetical. A woman marries the man of her dreams; they are young and healthy, and he is gainfully employed. They decide the time is right to have a family, since his income can support the two of them; so they conceive a child. And two months later, the husband dies in an accident.
Now she is mourning, she no longer has an income, and she has no nest egg, as he had no insurance, being a young man. If this woman decides not to bring that baby to term, are you honestly going to say that she should not be allowed to change her mind? Would you take the choice away from her, tell her she should have used birth control?
Please do not think you can state that this woman would surely want the child, or that she could turn to her family for help. It is a hypothetical situation; take it as a given that she wants to end the pregnancy, immeidately, and answer the question. Should she have used birth control? Or should she lose her right to control her body?

I think it is ridiculous to try to look to single, simple causes for the behavior nof individuals, and even more ridiculous to look to single, simple causes for societal trends. If anything, the downtrend in personal responsibility is most directly related (and thus I lay MY trap), as it is the single greatest cause of the decrease in education's effectiveness; as education becomes less effective, and students become more frustrated and hopeless, they tend to lash out. But that is only my opinion, and certainly not something I can prove.

I missed this. The trap has been sprung. What do you do to a student that does not accept responsibility, What do you do to an employee that does not accept responsibility, What do you do to a child that does not accept responsibility, I guess by now you figured out where I am going with this. In your eyes you make them slaves by making them accept responsibility for their actions. You my friend are part of the problem. If you don't make them accept responsibility. Just Like some parents are not making their kidsaccept responsibility, they are part of the problem. Now lets get more serious, a rapist gets caught If we send him to jail are we making him a slave or are we forcing him to accept responsibility for his crime? Maybe he still will not accept responsibility for the crime do we punish him. I could ask the same question for numerous crimes. Why not try to answer these questions and not wait 3 or four days like you did when I asked you if abortion should be used as birth control. :spank: Accept resposibility for not being honest about that question.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

I think it is ridiculous to try to look to single, simple causes for the behavior nof individuals, and even more ridiculous to look to single, simple causes for societal trends. If anything, the downtrend in personal responsibility is most directly related (and thus I lay MY trap), as it is the single greatest cause of the decrease in education's effectiveness; as education becomes less effective, and students become more frustrated and hopeless, they tend to lash out. But that is only my opinion, and certainly not something I can prove.

I missed this. The trap has been sprung. What do you do to a student that does not accept responsibility,

I give him a failing grade. I don't pass a law that says he must turn in his homework. By the way, what punishment would you suggest for having an abortion after your ban is enacted?

What do you do to an employee that does not accept responsibility,

I'd fire him.

What do you do to a child that does not accept responsibility,

If it was my child, I'd spank him. If it was another person's child, I'd inform the parents.

I guess by now you figured out where I am going with this. In your eyes you make them slaves by making them accept responsibility for their actions.

NO sir. I do not. You are creating your own interpretation of my position, without asking me to explain myself to your satisfaction. If you were honestly confused by my statements, this would be forgivable; but you are not. You are attempting to demonize me, because you do not feel you can match my arguments on the same level that I argue them; thus you sink to this lower level, where you, like doughgirl, call me irresponsible, and a monster. It is ad hominem, it is a logical fallacy, and it is offensive. Now, I will explain:

I do not see abortion as avoiding one's responsibility. The responsibility a woman has is to consider, carefully and honestly, what is the proper course to follow if she is pregnant. She should consider, carefully and honestly, all of the issues raised in debates like this, she should consider her own feelings, the feelings of the father, and the feelings of the fetus.
And then, after considering these things, she should make what she honestly feels is the best choice for all involved. Then, she should follow through with her decision, and then she must live with the consequences. I feel that, if she has considered carefully and honestly, and she feels that abortion is the right decision, she should have the right to follow through with that choice. That is responsibility. Notice, now, that that definition does not include the statements, "She should feel guilty for having sex, and she should give up her body, and maybe her life, for a baby's life, because the baby is more important than she is, because the baby didn't have sex like she did." That would be your definition of responsibility, and not mine.

Have I mischaracterized your position? Then that is your just desserts for mischaracterizing mine. If you would like to clarify your definition of responsibility for me, please do; I, unlike you, will listen to what you say.

You my friend are part of the problem. If you don't make them accept responsibility. Just Like some parents are not making their kidsaccept responsibility, they are part of the problem. Now lets get more serious, a rapist gets caught If we send him to jail are we making him a slave or are we forcing him to accept responsibility for his crime? Maybe he still will not accept responsibility for the crime do we punish him. I could ask the same question for numerous crimes.

Here you are implying that a woman's act of having sex is equivalent to a man committing rape, and she should be punished, just as he is, by losing all of her rights; and you wonder why I called you a Puritan? Why I maintain that the pro-life position is a sexist position? You believe the woman has committed a crime, and she needs to be punished by carrying the child to term. You even argue that forcing her to do this will act as a deterrent for other people, just like the death penalty. How can you stand to call yourself pro-life, when you are this hateful of women? How can you stand to say you love sex, when you see it as so sinful?

Why not try to answer these questions and not wait 3 or four days like you did when I asked you if abortion should be used as birth control. :spank: Accept resposibility for not being honest about that question.

I responded to your question, that same day, by saying I would not answer it. I have not answered it, and I never will, but since you see this as lying, I will explain myself. I will not say if abortion SHOULD be used as birth control, because I will not make the decision for the woman. It is not my body, it is not my decision. Since I myself have not fathered any children, and never will father any children, I can safely remove myself from ever having to say whether or not abortion is a good idea, and that is what I have done. I have said, and I will continue to say, that the woman needs to be able to choose to not be pregnant any longer. If the fetus could be removed, and its life preserved without its mother's body, I would agree to ban abortion except in cases of medical emergency. As it stands now, abortion is the only option for a woman who does not want to be pregnant, and no matter what you say, come Hell or high water, I will argue that she should have the right to control her own body at the cost of the child's life. What decision she SHOULD make, I will never say; you see, I believe in freedom.