Another Story Prayers Forgotten Prayers Answered

[Aurora151989]

Doesn,t work like that over here the child benifit agency pay the woman and the father pays the child support agency which then pays the child benifit agency.

The UK is screwy! what kind of government do they have?

 

[FISHX]

The UK is screwy! what kind of government do they have?

A crap one lol

 

[Aurora151989]

finally we agree on something :2razz:

 

[FISHX]

Well it is christmas

 

[CoffeeSaint]

This shows as stated you are not pro choice you are pro woman it,s a case of screw the man he may want to be a daddy to his baby/fetus but oh no if mummy says no then no it is yeah right great choice especialy as you then advocate the fact that the father is enslaved for 16 years where as the woman would only need to be enslaved for 26 weeks.

Okay, I'm pro-woman. Screw the man. To use an argument I have heard oh so many times from pro-life activists, he should have thought of that before he had sex with a woman who didn't want to bear his child. And once again, giving up some of your money is not enslavement, unless taxes are enslavement, and paying for goods and services is enslavement. We have to pay out lots of money, for lots of things we don't actually want; either we are all slaves, or none of us are, depending on how you look at it. But in no way is it an argument for forced pregnancy.

 

[FISHX]

Okay, I'm pro-woman. Screw the man. To use an argument I have heard oh so many times from pro-life activists, he should have thought of that before he had sex with a woman who didn't want to bear his child. And once again, giving up some of your money is not enslavement, unless taxes are enslavement, and paying for goods and services is enslavement. We have to pay out lots of money, for lots of things we don't actually want; either we are all slaves, or none of us are, depending on how you look at it. But in no way is it an argument for forced pregnancy.

No maybe not butthere is an argument for forced father hood.

 

[vergiss]

My god, the pro-life's argument is getting confusingly contradictory.

 

[tecoyah]

My god, the pro-life's argument is getting confusingly contradictory.

....Uh....Getting?

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

....Uh....Getting?

Just Like your argument You are for a woman to choose abortion but you are against abortion? Sorry you couldn't add more to the debate.

 

[vergiss]

Just Like your argument You are for a woman to choose abortion but you are against abortion? Sorry you couldn't add more to the debate.

Actually, to anyone with a basic understanding of grammar, it makes sense.

 

[FISHX]

My god, the pro-life's argument is getting confusingly contradictory.

In what way

 

[CoffeeSaint]

In what way

What exactly is "forced fatherhood?"

Why does a man's legal obligation to pay child support argue ffor "forced fatherhood?"

What does forced fatherhood, and child support, have to do with abortion -- or more specifically, the abortion of fetuses with genetic flaws, disabilities, etc., which was the topic of this thread, I think.

Your last post made a cryptic statement without explanation. Hence the confusion.

 

[FISHX]

What exactly is "forced fatherhood?"

Why does a man's legal obligation to pay child support argue ffor "forced fatherhood?"

What does forced fatherhood, and child support, have to do with abortion -- or more specifically, the abortion of fetuses with genetic flaws, disabilities, etc., which was the topic of this thread, I think.

Your last post made a cryptic statement without explanation. Hence the confusion.

The fact that you can force a man to be a father by having the baby against his wishes hence he has at least a financial responsibility to a child he never wanted for 16 years where as if the father wanted the pregnancy and the mother didn,t she can terminate hence the father has no choice and forced into fatherhood.

what is there not to understand?

 

[CoffeeSaint]

The fact that you can force a man to be a father by having the baby against his wishes hence he has at least a financial responsibility to a child he never wanted for 16 years where as if the father wanted the pregnancy and the mother didn,t she can terminate hence the father has no choice and forced into fatherhood.

what is there not to understand?

From this post, nothing; but this isn't exactly what you said in the last post, is it?

Since all we are talking about is a financial responsibility, I don't have a problem with this. The government does not command the father to earn the money in a certain way, or to act/live in a certain way while he makes the money; this financial responsibility is no worse than taxes. It is quite different from forcing a woman to use her body for a specific purpose, against her wishes, and without any consideration for her well-being.

 

[tecoyah]

Just Like your argument You are for a woman to choose abortion but you are against abortion? Sorry you couldn't add more to the debate.

Well...you see....I have developed, over the years this impulse to show respect for the freedoms of others. Part of this is understanding I should not impose my will on someone simply because I think they are wrong. We have laws to control the worst of societal problems, and I abide by them, and expext others to do the same. But....I do not consider myself above any other, and so.....I DO NOT PUSH MY BELIEFS ON ANYONE. Debate is fine....an expression of thought. But to force someone into submission is just unacceptable to me. Believe it or not...it is possible to see both sides of an issue.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

Well...you see....I have developed, over the years this impulse to show respect for the freedoms of others. Part of this is understanding I should not impose my will on someone simply because I think they are wrong. We have laws to control the worst of societal problems, and I abide by them, and expext others to do the same.

I think killing an innocent unborn Baby or fetus (they both mean the same) is a pretty bad societal problem.

But....I do not consider myself above any other, and so.....I DO NOT PUSH MY BELIEFS ON ANYONE.

This is the one and only belief I can push on anyone. It has been a custom of the human race for centuries Accept responsibility for your actions!

Debate is fine....an expression of thought. But to force someone into submission is just unacceptable to me. Believe it or not...it is possible to see both sides of an issue.

We force people to go to prison for murder, rape, theft,.......... If we did not what kind of society would we have?

Since Legalized abortion lets see what has happen. Crime in our schools has increased so much so Metal detectors had to be installed. Kids that had hit list of kids they want to kill. Columbine, Murders commited in the school. They do not want your lunch money anymore, they want your life. Continued legalized murder of the unborn is a bad example for our children. Telling people Listen if you have sex and get pregnant for the Male it means child support all during and after the pregnancy (note this is not law yet but it should be) for the Female it means being pregnant until the baby is born. Now it is your responsibility not to get pregnant. Choose two or three different types of birth control and use it for God sakes. Do not kill an innocent human being because your to lazy to do that. (that is addressed to both partners)

 

[steen]

I think killing an innocent unborn Baby or fetus (they both mean the same) is a pretty bad societal problem.

A lie.

Since Legalized abortion lets see what has happen. Crime in our schools has increased so much so Metal detectors had to be installed......

Arw, heck. Are you now going to imply that correlation is causation? Of all the dishonest and deceptive prolife lies, this one is one of the worst.

 

[tecoyah]

We force people to go to prison for murder, rape, theft,.......... If we did not what kind of society would we have?

Thus my mention of the Laws we have in place.

Since Legalized abortion lets see what has happened. Crime in our schools has increased so much that Metal detectors had to be installed. Kids now have hit list of kids they want to kill. Columbine, Murders commited in the school. They do not want your lunch money anymore, they want your life. Continued legalized murder of the unborn is a bad example for our children. Telling people Listen, if you have sex and get pregnant,for the Male it means child support all during and after the pregnancy ,(note this is not law yet but it should be) for the Female it means being pregnant until the baby is born. Now, it is your responsibility not to get pregnant. Choose two or three different types of birth control and use it for Gods sake. Do not kill an innocent human being because your too lazy to do that. (that is addressed to both partners) .

Surely....even you arent trying to make this connection....this is a rediculous assumption.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

Surely....even you arent trying to make this connection....this is a rediculous assumption.

I have been around long enough to say Yes it is true. Why can't we stop building prisons when our population is decreasing? All the example are true I do not remember metal detectors in my High School today they are there. Society has made life cheap because of abortion. Life is not valued, look at some video games, created by the generation that grew up with legalized abortion.

 

[tecoyah]

Wow....just...uh....Wow. I think thats enough for me for now....my head hurts.

 

[steen]

I have been around long enough to say Yes it is true.....

Do you EVER have anything other than "just because I say so" subjective postulations as "evidence"?

 

[CoffeeSaint]

I have been around long enough to say Yes it is true. Why can't we stop building prisons when our population is decreasing? All the example are true I do not remember metal detectors in my High School today they are there. Society has made life cheap because of abortion. Life is not valued, look at some video games, created by the generation that grew up with legalized abortion.

1. Our population is not decreasing.

2. Many things are different from 1973; they are not all caused by abortion. As for violence in high schools, I'm a high school teacher; trust me, the violence is not caused by abortion. Most kids are pro-life, believe it or not. None of them think life is cheap and therefore can be wasted. In fact, I would say the only thing in our society today that was caused by Roe v. Wade is the fact that we still have legalized abortion, and many people do not exist because of it. I don't believe there is anything else that was "caused" by legalized abortion. As for the people who are not alive today, the number is far fewer than the number that are not alive today because of cancer. Why, then, is our energy not directed at fighting cancer? Or AIDS? Or diabetes? Or one of the other scourges that kill millions of us? If you want to fight easily preventable death, how about fighting against drug and alcohol abuse? If you want to fight victimization, why not fight rape, molestation, and abuse?
Why are you fighting this fight? Who are you trying to help? Do you really think the greatest evil in our society is abortion?

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

1. Our population is not decreasing.

Maybe with the illegal & legal immigrants coming here steen are you legal, you never answered that? The population is going down in this country anyway.

2. Many things are different from 1973; they are not all caused by abortion. As for violence in high schools, I'm a high school teacher; trust me, the violence is not caused by abortion.

Ok what is the cause what is your opinion? (I have laid my trap)

Most kids are pro-life, believe it or not. None of them think life is cheap and therefore can be wasted.

Is that why the modern music depicks Women as HO's Cheap. As a Dad with 2 girls it scares me to death.

In fact, I would say the only thing in our society today that was caused by Roe v. Wade is the fact that we still have legalized abortion, and many people do not exist because of it. I don't believe there is anything else that was "caused" by legalized abortion. As for the people who are not alive today, the number is far fewer than the number that are not alive today because of cancer. Why, then, is our energy not directed at fighting cancer? Or AIDS? Or diabetes? Or one of the other scourges that kill millions of us? If you want to fight easily preventable death, how about fighting against drug and alcohol abuse? If you want to fight victimization, why not fight rape, molestation, and abuse?
Why are you fighting this fight? Who are you trying to help? Do you really think the greatest evil in our society is abortion?

Yes I think the killing of an innocent human being is the greatest evil man can ever commit. The reason I fight so hard for life I watch 5 babies die all of them could have been legally aborted. I know what they are Innocent human beings.

 

[steen]

steen are you legal, you never answered that?

Ah, another ad hominem.

The population is going down in this country anyway.

Another of your lies.

(I have laid my trap)

AH, so now you are admitting to trolling. This is getting worse and worse.

Yes I think the killing of an innocent human being is the greatest evil man can ever commit.

SO war and the death penalty definitely is out for you.

The reason I fight so hard for life I watch 5 babies die all of them could have been legally aborted.

Utterly irrelevant, as they weren't

I know what they are Innocent human beings.

AH, another one of your "knows" subjective beliefs presented dishonestly as fact.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

1. Our population is not decreasing.

Maybe with the illegal & legal immigrants coming here steen are you legal, you never answered that? The population is going down in this country anyway.

How ridiculous. "And, unlike Europe, the US population is growing fast - from 200 million in 1970, to nearly 300 million today and a projected 420 million in 2050" www.peopleandplanet.net/doc.php?id=199&section=2

Are there 100 million immigrants where you live? Because there aren't where I am.

2. Many things are different from 1973; they are not all caused by abortion. As for violence in high schools, I'm a high school teacher; trust me, the violence is not caused by abortion.

Ok what is the cause what is your opinion? (I have laid my trap)

I think it is ridiculous to try to look to single, simple causes for the behavior nof individuals, and even more ridiculous to look to single, simple causes for societal trends. If anything, the downtrend in personal responsibility is most directly related (and thus I lay MY trap), as it is the single greatest cause of the decrease in education's effectiveness; as education becomes less effective, and students become more frustrated and hopeless, they tend to lash out. But that is only my opinion, and certainly not something I can prove.

Most kids are pro-life, believe it or not. None of them think life is cheap and therefore can be wasted.

Is that why the modern music depicks Women as HO's Cheap. As a Dad with 2 girls it scares me to death.

That same music also depicts men as pimps and gangstas, soldiers and hustlers; they do not see it as realistic. Kids are not stupid, whatever you may think; they look at a video game that shows people being murdered and think, "There's a video game showing people being murdered." They do not think, "I guess I'll go out and shoot a lot of people, just like that."
Children who commit violent acts are violent children. The music doesn't make them violent, nor do video games; nor does the legality of abortion.

In fact, I would say the only thing in our society today that was caused by Roe v. Wade is the fact that we still have legalized abortion, and many people do not exist because of it. I don't believe there is anything else that was "caused" by legalized abortion. As for the people who are not alive today, the number is far fewer than the number that are not alive today because of cancer. Why, then, is our energy not directed at fighting cancer? Or AIDS? Or diabetes? Or one of the other scourges that kill millions of us? If you want to fight easily preventable death, how about fighting against drug and alcohol abuse? If you want to fight victimization, why not fight rape, molestation, and abuse?
Why are you fighting this fight? Who are you trying to help? Do you really think the greatest evil in our society is abortion?

Yes I think the killing of an innocent human being is the greatest evil man can ever commit. The reason I fight so hard for life I watch 5 babies die all of them could have been legally aborted. I know what they are Innocent human beings.

But you accept the slavery of women as par for the course. Your position is not a moral one, sir. Your personal tragedy is terrible, but it doesn't justify slavery. Those women are just as innocent of a crime as are the children, your Puritan views of sex notwithstanding; if I remember right, you have said you are not against sex, even though the only way to prevent all unwanted pregnancies is simply to prevent all pregnancies.

Before you leap into your birth control argument again, let me give you a different hyopothetical. A woman marries the man of her dreams; they are young and healthy, and he is gainfully employed. They decide the time is right to have a family, since his income can support the two of them; so they conceive a child. And two months later, the husband dies in an accident.
Now she is mourning, she no longer has an income, and she has no nest egg, as he had no insurance, being a young man. If this woman decides not to bring that baby to term, are you honestly going to say that she should not be allowed to change her mind? Would you take the choice away from her, tell her she should have used birth control?
Please do not think you can state that this woman would surely want the child, or that she could turn to her family for help. It is a hypothetical situation; take it as a given that she wants to end the pregnancy, immeidately, and answer the question. Should she have used birth control? Or should she lose her right to control her body?