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Another Story Prayers Forgotten Prayers Answered

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Prayers Forgotten Prayers Answered (part 2 Adoption)

To recap, our Lives with Meagan just started. At about 2 ½ years old we started to notice Meagan was very bright. (I am sure everyone is saying every parent says that) One day while riding in the car with My Mom and Aunt and my Wife, My mom said she had to pick up something in Neptune (Small town in NJ) Meagan then inform my mom she could not go to Neptune because it is a planet. A week before while on our deck looking at the stars I told Meagan about planets she remembered. I prayed for an intelligent Baby and I knew then my prayers were answered. At 4 Meagan began to pray for a Baby Sister. Every night when we hit our knees she would pray. I sort of thrown cold water on the idea saying Daddy and mommy are to old. But the painful memories of trying and losing 5 premature babies came back. We knew my sperm count was low and My Wife had problems ovulating. All of the pregnancies we had help of fertility pills. While waiting for Meagan we never used birth control because doctors told us it was virtually impossible to get pregnant, so for almost 10 years nothing happen. Meagan kept praying for a baby sister every night (I was beginning to think she was teasing me) . Finally we began to worry so we called her in our room and sat down and told her Mommy could not have any babies that is why we adopted her (Oh she always knew she was adopted because she watched the video tapes of her arrival thousands of times) We just said some prayers God does not answer (thinking back to our tmes so long ago) Well guess what two weeks later my wife was pregnant!! No Clo-Med nothing ! Now we were scared out of our minds thinking the same thing is going to happen. Losing another Baby then see Meagan’s hopes dashed. We had talked to a Doctor at Temple University years ago. He was the only Doctor to suggest a cause for losing our 5. His name is Doctor E. Albert Reese Chairman of the OB GYN Dept. Temple University. Doctor Reese is Black I never considered myself prejudice but this time I was. I thought that black people did not have the same opportunities I a white man have had. Somehow because of his drive intelligence this man rose above very bad times for blacks in America (But that’s another story) Well on January 5, 2000 the New millennium started with Meagan’s prayers answered as well as my forgotten prayers answered. This happens allot to adoptive parents . I have 2 Honey Lambs Meagan Victoria now 10 and Lauren Elizabeth 5 Praise the Lord He is so Good . The point of these stories is to try to express how much joy children can give. That is priceless. How valuable these lives are to me and my Wife. If we could only know the aborted they are just like my girls your Sisters or Brothers Kids you know around the neighborhood If only we could give them a Chance. Having no Chance, This is the Horror of Abortion.
 

shuamort

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Mod Note

Where's the debate? What's being debated here that isn't being debated in the other 9 or so threads you've started?

/Mod Note
 
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shuamort said:
Mod Note

Where's the debate? What's being debated here that isn't being debated in the other 9 or so threads you've started?

/Mod Note
You responded? I guess I should ask a Question even though I did give reasons for adoption. It's not my fault that no one can dispute those reasons? No one is willing to say kids do not bring joy.Or How Priceless these lives are to my wife and I. OK I posted a sure winner before the debate got started. I guess you would call it a ringer.
 

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Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:
You responded? I guess I should ask a Question even though I did give reasons for adoption. It's not my fault that no one can dispute those reasons? No one is willing to say kids do not bring joy.Or How Priceless these lives are to my wife and I. OK I posted a sure winner before the debate got started. I guess you would call it a ringer.
You want people to dismantle your subjective experience? You gave reasons why you adopted. Fine. But what's good for your goose isn't necessarily good for everyone else's gander.

I have no interest in adoption or makin' babies. It's just not my cuppa. Would having kids bring joy to my life? Highly doubtful. (And I've got two nieces and two goddaughters that I babysit from time to time and I've been there since before they were even born until now.)

To each their own.
 

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Let me first congratulate you on having two seemingly wondeful chilren. But now, I'm going to have to be a little cold hearted here. Using your small miracles given to you by "God" doesn't make for a good debate. In fact, it leaves me to be the bad guy and criticize your debate choice, which might seem a little, as metioned above, cold hearted and uncaring. I don't truly care about emotioanl uplifiting stories, I want to have an intelligent debate. And your seemingly infinite posts about sob stories in the abortion debate prevent this from happening.
 

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Now that I'm done venting, I'll try to debate. First of all, I'm not pro abortion, it's called pro choice. If some of you more right-winged thinkers can't understand the difference between these two, then there can be no meaningful debate about abortion. Abortion should only be used if something unintended happened and you bacame pregnant, when you didn't want to.
 
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liberal1 said:
Now that I'm done venting, I'll try to debate. First of all, I'm not pro abortion, it's called pro choice. If some of you more right-winged thinkers can't understand the difference between these two, then there can be no meaningful debate about abortion. Abortion should only be used if something unintended happened and you bacame pregnant, when you didn't want to.
Your response shows me you are Pro Abortion Me Right wing, hardly. I am a Bob Casey Democrat.

"Abortion should only be used if something (Becoming Pregnant is not a something)unintended happened and you bacame pregnant, when you didn't want to" (Definately Pro Abortion Statement being pregnant is a choice someone makes when they have sex)HMMM You believe Abortion should be used as Birth control ?
 

steen

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You need to get over your name-calling desire for outright misrepresentation of others.
 

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Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:
being pregnant is a choice someone makes when they have sex
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
 
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Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:
Your response shows me you are Pro Abortion Me Right wing, hardly. I am a Bob Casey Democrat.

"Abortion should only be used if something (Becoming Pregnant is not a something)unintended happened and you bacame pregnant, when you didn't want to" (Definately Pro Abortion Statement being pregnant is a choice someone makes when they have sex)HMMM You believe Abortion should be used as Birth control ?

Dude....you really need to get out more, and maybe actually meet people. You know, talk to them, befriend them, try to understand the differences each and every one of us have.....might even find out that Adults are worthy of the same respect you spread all over your little Honey Lambs.
Likely though....the negativity you project prevents this to an extent, and forces upon you the hermitage of your existance....pity.
 

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liberal1 said:
Now that I'm done venting, I'll try to debate. First of all, I'm not pro abortion, it's called pro choice. If some of you more right-winged thinkers can't understand the difference between these two, then there can be no meaningful debate about abortion. Abortion should only be used if something unintended happened and you bacame pregnant, when you didn't want to.
If you are pro choice are you then for the fathers choice as well as the mothers ? IE; If the father was prepared to take care of the baby once born and the hospital agreed to deliver early (i know the hospital wouldn,t just hypothetical) by c section to prevemt any unecersary bodily damage yet the mother still wanted to terminate would yuou advocate the choice of the father or are you indeed just pro womans choice?
 

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FISHX said:
If you are pro choice are you then for the fathers choice as well as the mothers ? IE; If the father was prepared to take care of the baby once born and the hospital agreed to deliver early (i know the hospital wouldn,t just hypothetical) by c section to prevemt any unecersary bodily damage yet the mother still wanted to terminate would yuou advocate the choice of the father or are you indeed just pro womans choice?
Personally, I believe both parents' wishes are important.
 

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FISHX said:
If you are pro choice are you then for the fathers choice as well as the mothers ? IE; If the father was prepared to take care of the baby once born and the hospital agreed to deliver early (i know the hospital wouldn,t just hypothetical) by c section to prevemt any unecersary bodily damage yet the mother still wanted to terminate would yuou advocate the choice of the father or are you indeed just pro womans choice?
Pardon me for jumping in here, but this scenario requires the removal of the woman's choice, in favor of the man's choice: by mandating that the woman must carry the man's baby to term so that he can raise it, you are forcing the woman to remain pregnant, thus effectively banning abortion. As I am pro-choice, I cannot agree with that. I also see innumerable areas of potential abuse, if men were given the power to command a woman's body for her. Lastly, I'm not sure how a C-section could be seen as preventing bodily damage; it illustrates the point that you are forcing a woman to undergo invooluntary surgery. Isn't that, at least, a violation of one's rights?
 
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tecoyah said:
Dude....you really need to get out more, and maybe actually meet people. You know, talk to them, befriend them, try to understand the differences each and every one of us have.....might even find out that Adults are worthy of the same respect you spread all over your little Honey Lambs.
Likely though....the negativity you project prevents this to an extent, and forces upon you the hermitage of your existance....pity.
Hermitage existance? Hardly I am involve in my church, I have a job in which I help Doctors, nurses Hospitals , I repair medical equiptment I specialize in ultra sound and bone density mostly found in OB/GYN offices. I can't help to see all the pictures of new borns and the images from 4D ultra sound really prove we are aborting a person as early as 8 weeks I can see a person. I know steen is going to say the baby is not a person but my eyes and my heart tell me that the baby in the womb is a Person not to mention DNA. Here are some pictures from ths wonderful technology. Click on the images. http://www.prolifeamerica.com/4D-Ultrasound-pictures/
 

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CoffeeSaint said:
Pardon me for jumping in here, but this scenario requires the removal of the woman's choice, in favor of the man's choice: by mandating that the woman must carry the man's baby to term so that he can raise it, you are forcing the woman to remain pregnant, thus effectively banning abortion. As I am pro-choice, I cannot agree with that. I also see innumerable areas of potential abuse, if men were given the power to command a woman's body for her. Lastly, I'm not sure how a C-section could be seen as preventing bodily damage; it illustrates the point that you are forcing a woman to undergo invooluntary surgery. Isn't that, at least, a violation of one's rights?

So your not pro choice then only pro womans choice isn,t the termination of the fathers child a violation of his rights?
 

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FISHX said:
So your not pro choice then only pro womans choice isn,t the termination of the fathers child a violation of his rights?
Yes, I am pro-choice, which means I support a woman's right to choose; has this been an issue? Are there people who deny that the pro-choice stance does lean heavily toward protecting women, with little attention being paid to men? I don't believe the father's rights override the rights of the mother to control her own body. His offspring is less important in his life, than her body is in her life; that's a biological statement, not a philosophical one. He can survive without his child; she cannot survive without her body, so her rights must come first. I refuse to enslave a woman because a man wants a child.
 

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CoffeeSaint said:
Yes, I am pro-choice, which means I support a woman's right to choose; has this been an issue? Are there people who deny that the pro-choice stance does lean heavily toward protecting women, with little attention being paid to men? I don't believe the father's rights override the rights of the mother to control her own body. His offspring is less important in his life, than her body is in her life; that's a biological statement, not a philosophical one. He can survive without his child; she cannot survive without her body, so her rights must come first. I refuse to enslave a woman because a man wants a child.


But what aboutenslaving a man because a woman wants to give birth to a child he doesn,t want ie child support?
 

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FISHX said:
But what aboutenslaving a man because a woman wants to give birth to a child he doesn,t want ie child support?

ahhh we're getting to the issue now.... If a man doesn't want a child, he can relinquish all parental rights to the mother. therefore he won't have to pay child support because legally, he has no child!
 

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Aurora151989 said:
ahhh we're getting to the issue now.... If a man doesn't want a child, he can relinquish all parental rights to the mother. therefore he won't have to pay child support because legally, he has no child!

Not in the UK he can,t should he therefore be enslaved for the next 16 years not the 26 week it would take the woman to carry the baby/fetus to viability?
 

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FISHX said:
Not in the UK he can,t should he therefore be enslaved for the next 16 years not the 26 week it would take the woman to carry the baby/fetus to viability?
The man should not be enslaved! If the woman wants the child and the man doesn't, i believe the woman has the option of not demanding child support. and if the man wants the child, and the woman doesn't, she can give up the child be adopted BY the father.
 

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FISHX said:
Not in the UK he can,t should he therefore be enslaved for the next 16 years not the 26 week it would take the woman to carry the baby/fetus to viability?
There is a large difference between forcing a man to pay money and forcing a woman to go through pregnancy. The government, in forcing the father to pay child support, does not mandate how he makes the money, nor what he does with his body while he pays the money; it is no more enslavement than are taxes. Forcing a woman to carry a child for someone else turns her into a brood mare, nothing but an animal, with no control over her own life. Shouldn't the father also be able to mandate that she cannot drink, smoke, take drugs? Wouldn't he have to control her diet and exercise, and how much she sleeps, in order to protect the health and well-being of his child? If she is one of those women who have to spend the entire pregnancy in bed, should he be able to force her to do that? Can he keep her in a straitjacket to ensure she doesn't try to abort her own pregnancy?

Control over her own body overrides any right the man has to his child.
 

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In the uk the woman has to bye law go to the child support agency once the child is born otherwise the child bennifit agency could prosecute her so really where is the choice for the man not to be enslaved?

If the woman was willing to carry the child to viability then yes she could then give the child up for adoption to the father that is what my initial post was recomending for fair choice between man and woman.
 

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FISHX said:
In the uk the woman has to bye law go to the child support agency once the child is born otherwise the child bennifit agency could prosecute her so really where is the choice for the man not to be enslaved?
ahhhh, but there's a loophole there, the woman can return the child support money to the man.
 

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CoffeeSaint said:
There is a large difference between forcing a man to pay money and forcing a woman to go through pregnancy. The government, in forcing the father to pay child support, does not mandate how he makes the money, nor what he does with his body while he pays the money; it is no more enslavement than are taxes. Forcing a woman to carry a child for someone else turns her into a brood mare, nothing but an animal, with no control over her own life. Shouldn't the father also be able to mandate that she cannot drink, smoke, take drugs? Wouldn't he have to control her diet and exercise, and how much she sleeps, in order to protect the health and well-being of his child? If she is one of those women who have to spend the entire pregnancy in bed, should he be able to force her to do that? Can he keep her in a straitjacket to ensure she doesn't try to abort her own pregnancy?

Control over her own body overrides any right the man has to his child.

This shows as stated you are not pro choice you are pro woman it,s a case of screw the man he may want to be a daddy to his baby/fetus but oh no if mummy says no then no it is yeah right great choice especialy as you then advocate the fact that the father is enslaved for 16 years where as the woman would only need to be enslaved for 26 weeks.
 

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Aurora151989 said:
ahhhh, but there's a loophole there, the woman can return the child support money to the man.

Doesn,t work like that over here the child benifit agency pay the woman and the father pays the child support agency which then pays the child benifit agency.
 
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