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Another little-known reason why socialism sucks.

A reason not discussed much regarding why a mixed economy sucks so bad is because the workers on the socialist side use their political influence to make their lives easier while making society much worse off. I'll provide two prominent examples, but it's everywhere on the socialist side.

Two socialist institutions are police and government-run schools.

1. You'll notice that police luv drug laws. They always lobby against marijuana legalization laws. Drug laws are great for cops because it's much easier and safer to criminalize peaceful people and arrest them for possession of plant material or illegal gardening than it is to go after actual criminals. The drug war greatly ramps up police budgets, and allows the pigs to buy military equipment. The pigs also luv civil forfeiture laws and no-knock warrants, both of which are products of the drug war.

Cops lobby for bad laws which benefit them but harm society in general.

2. Teacher's unions luv adding social justice into the school curricuculum. Why? Because it benefits teachers. It's much easier to teach kids woke bullshit than it is to teach them math and English. As far as the teachers are concerned, the more woke bullshit in the curriculum the better. They would prefer to spend the entire day teaching kids that white people are villains and black people are victims. What could be easier? So again, like the cops, you have the workers in a socialist institution using their political power to make their jobs easier and society much worse off.
 

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John D. Rockefeller raged mightily against that public sentiment over his life’s last decades. He fiercely denounced, for instance, the drive to enact a federal income tax.

“When a man has accumulated a sum of money within the law,” old John D. intoned, “the people no longer have any right to share in the earnings resulting from the accumulation.”
Man, I only wish I had been around before stealing was against the law.
 

multivita-man

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John D. Rockefeller raged mightily against that public sentiment over his life’s last decades. He fiercely denounced, for instance, the drive to enact a federal income tax.

“When a man has accumulated a sum of money within the law,” old John D. intoned, “the people no longer have any right to share in the earnings resulting from the accumulation.”

People like Rockefeller believed that peasants, I mean people, had few rights at all other than to find a way to survive the rat race.
 

aociswundumho

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Sorry for the delay, I've been extremely busy lately.

Just so you know, I am no lover of socialism, but I tend to abide by the dictionary definition of the word when I'm talking about it.

Definition of socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods​

There are only two ways goods and services can be produced - by the government or by the market. If a good or service is produced by the government and paid for via coercive taxation, then it is socialist. If it is produced on the market and paid for voluntarily by consumers, then it's capitalism.

The two goods mentioned in this thread are education and security. They are currently both being produced by the government and the market. On the socialist side, government-run schools provide education and police provide security. On the capitalist side we have private security firms, and there are more people working for private security firms than there are cops. For education the market offers private schools, tutoring, websites like https://www.khanacademy.org/ etc.


I don't quite agree that "police luv drug laws". I think it's more of an issue that they see the dirty side of drugs more than most people. They see the lives destroyed, the people killed...the damage done to society...by drugs.

People have the innate right to destroy their own lives. They have the right to drink themselves to death, or even eat themselves to death. Even if you disagree with those claims, how does putting a drug user in a prison cell benefit society, instead of just leaving him alone? If a prison cell is the answer for self-destruction via drugs, why isn't a prison cell the answer for alcoholics, or the morbidly obese?

They see the lives destroyed, the people killed...the damage done to society...by drugs.
The worst recreational drug on the planet, by perhaps an order of magnitude, is alcohol. No drug does more damage to society than alcohol:
  • An estimated 37 % of sexual assaults and rapes are committed by offenders who were under the influence of alcohol.
  • About 27% of aggravated assaults are committed by individuals who have used alcohol. Aggravated assault means causing serious injury, such as bodily harm to another person.
  • Research studies have shown a link between parents who abuse alcohol and the risk of child neglect and abuse. Roughly four in ten child abusers have admitted to being under the influence of alcohol during the time of the offense.
  • In fact, about 40% of convicted murderers had used alcohol before or during the crime. Excessive drinking can lead to more severe forms of violence that can quickly escalate to extremely dangerous situations.

But I don't think they want drug laws so they can "criminalize peaceful people".
If the stupid pigs cared about societal damage, as you have asserted, they would lobby for less restrictions on weed and more restrictions on alcohol. They don't.
 

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If you think cops are lobbying for drug laws and bigger budgets because it makes their life easier, then the same would be true of private security companies.

In short, of all the dumbass shit you post around here, this has got to be one of your dumbest posts ever.

No it wouldn't, because the people who hire private security firms want security - they do not want to pay private security guards to assault drug users smoking weed or doing other drugs. There is no market in preventing other people from using certain drugs, hence drug laws provide no benefit to private security firms - but they do benefit cops.
 

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Worth repeating since it was never answered: show me any economy - even one - worth a toss that isn't mixed.

There aren't any. Even Lenin, who absolutely hated capitalism, allowed some capitalism in order to prevent too much starvation.

I'm not sure what your point is. It is an indisputable fact that in any mixed-economy, the more socialist it gets the more of a shithole it becomes. And as Milton Friedman used to regularly point out, living standards rose the fastest in the US and England when capitalism was at it's most "unfettered", to use a favorite word of the left.
 

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You know - unions are not exactly socialism. Unless you are an insane anarcho capitalist or something.

I never claimed they were. In fact I wrote a post explaining why I believe unions can only exist in a mixed economy.
 

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Public funding. The Military, Postal Service, Public Works, Public Schools...etc.

The OP forgot how horrible socialism is because roads sometimes have pot holes, and the water from his tap isn't pure. Maybe these social programs aren't to blame intrinsically - management needs improving.

Isn't that the excuse whenever socialism destroys an entire country? Do you believe countries like Cuba, Venezuela, Russia under Stalin, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Yugoslavia under Tito, China under Mao, etc, were all ruined simply because they needed better management?
 

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Exactly right. All of the services can and are privatized, from the insurance you mention, to prisons and security companies to mail (FedEx) - I have a family owned toll bridge not far from me...etc etc. The US is a mixed economy,

Not prisons. Crime victims want restitution. They do not to pay a monthly fee for putting the criminal in a steel cage for decades. There is no market for prisons.

States often hire contractors to do their dirty work. A prison contractor is no different in this respect than Blackwater.

and the government imposes regulation on private industry (socialism) - we are certainly not laissez faire.

That's right, but it's a matter of degree. I wouldn't consider light regulation to be socialism. But price controls on all goods, wage controls on all labor, state permission needed for businesses to buy material, and a court system which always sides with the government would be. Do you agree with that?

Oh and those Scandinavian countries I believe were mentioned somewhere, pure capitalist are they? Then why is everyone crying about what horrible socialists they are. One can only wonder what they are teaching in the High Schools these days, mm.

PS: ...and space projects - don't need NASA for that.
 

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There aren't any.

Thank you.

I'm not sure what your point is.

The point is, your idea of an economic system exists in your imagination and no country with any sense would attempt to implement it. Your ideal is based on nothing more than a few Ayn Rand/Ron Paul/Stansberry Research bullet points that you've memorized without ever having thought about any of them very critically.

It is an indisputable fact that in any mixed-economy, the more socialist it gets the more of a shithole it becomes. And as Milton Friedman used to regularly point out, living standards rose the fastest in the US and England when capitalism was at it's most "unfettered", to use a favorite word of the left.

Oh cool, throw in Milton Friedman's name as an authority without really explaining which aspects of Friedman's theory you agree with and more importantly, why.

Tl/dr, you don't know what you're talking about. You can either admit it or continue bloviating and pretending that you actually do.
 

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Public control of the means of production regarding the service of security.

People need their lives and their property protected. This is what private security firms do. Police are the public counterpart.
Are the private security firms going to write traffic tickets also?
 

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Thank you.

You're quite welcome.

The point is, your idea of an economic system exists in your imagination and no country with any sense would attempt to implement it. Your ideal is based on nothing more than a few Ayn Rand/Ron Paul/Stansberry Research bullet points that you've memorized without ever having thought about any of them very critically.

Just a few hundred years ago the idea of a representative democracy seemed absurd, and guess what, they were right.

The truth is, the only ism that has ever worked is capitalism. Every socialist institution is a failure in need of constant "reform". Meanwhile countries which add more capitalism to their mix experience a huge increase in living standards.
 

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Are the private security firms going to write traffic tickets also?

There are many different ways to deter people from speeding on private roads.
 

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First of all, Republicans typically support quite a bit of socialism, e.g. police, the military, etc. Even a white supremacist like Richard Spencer supports a government-run healthcare system.

I feel it's important to argue against something which is so detrimental to society. A hundred years ago people like you were arguing that the state should control the entire economy. After about 200 million corpses, people like you today argue that the state should control about 50% of the economy. Socialism is just a really, really, really, bad idea which belongs in the dustbin of history. I'm doing my part to try to get it there.
We are all socialists and capitalists, only on different subjects. I get SS and Medicare, use the socialist Post Office and socialist freeways, and benefit from owning property and getting rent, thanks to a wise private sector investment. Socialism is here to stay, as is capitalism.
 

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A reason not discussed much regarding why a mixed economy sucks so bad is because the workers on the socialist side use their political influence to make their lives easier while making society much worse off. I'll provide two prominent examples, but it's everywhere on the socialist side.

Two socialist institutions are police and government-run schools.

1. You'll notice that police luv drug laws. They always lobby against marijuana legalization laws. Drug laws are great for cops because it's much easier and safer to criminalize peaceful people and arrest them for possession of plant material or illegal gardening than it is to go after actual criminals. The drug war greatly ramps up police budgets, and allows the pigs to buy military equipment. The pigs also luv civil forfeiture laws and no-knock warrants, both of which are products of the drug war.

Cops lobby for bad laws which benefit them but harm society in general.

2. Teacher's unions luv adding social justice into the school curricuculum. Why? Because it benefits teachers. It's much easier to teach kids woke bullshit than it is to teach them math and English. As far as the teachers are concerned, the more woke bullshit in the curriculum the better. They would prefer to spend the entire day teaching kids that white people are villains and black people are victims. What could be easier? So again, like the cops, you have the workers in a socialist institution using their political power to make their jobs easier and society much worse off.

And unbridled capitalism is worse. Much worse. Balance is key.
 

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We are all socialists and capitalists, only on different subjects. I get SS and Medicare, use the socialist Post Office and socialist freeways, and benefit from owning property and getting rent, thanks to a wise private sector investment. Socialism is here to stay, as is capitalism.

Lol, you're a greedy landlord? So if your tenants can't come up with the rent money, you throw them out on the street, correct?
 

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Lol, you're a greedy landlord? So if your tenants can't come up with the rent money, you throw them out on the street, correct?
Not really. The property manager and I work with them. The rental property is in a working class neighborhood, and out tenants have had problems. We charge slightly below market rates. There was one crazy we had to evict.
 

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Not really. The property manager and I work with them. The rental property is in a working class neighborhood, and out tenants have had problems.

Nice to see a fellow capitalist exploiting the proletariat. You know Trump is a landlord too.

We charge slightly below market rates. There was one crazy we had to evict.

Awesome. Your profits come before anyone else's "right" to housing, that's for sure.
 

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Nice to see a fellow capitalist exploiting the proletariat. You know Trump is a landlord too.



Awesome. Your profits come before anyone else's "right" to housing, that's for sure.
No, someone who moved in and never paid a dime in rent was evicted. On the other hand, we gave breaks to others.
 

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EMNofSeattle

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Not prisons. Crime victims want restitution. They do not to pay a monthly fee for putting the criminal in a steel cage for decades. There is no market for prisons.

States often hire contractors to do their dirty work. A prison contractor is no different in this respect than Blackwater.



That's right, but it's a matter of degree. I wouldn't consider light regulation to be socialism. But price controls on all goods, wage controls on all labor, state permission needed for businesses to buy material, and a court system which always sides with the government would be. Do you agree with that?
No amount of financial restitution is going to satisfy persons who’s relatives were killed or sexually assaulted or the like. What you would quickly see is a return to biblical justice where the family will just kill the offender. And then family feuds will develop. And in any event with a civil court system with judgments enforced by a sheriff or constable there is no way to make restitution work. I would imagine most felons would respond to “may I collect my restitution by your consent without initiation of force” would be “**** you” and now you have to force them to pay.
 

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No amount of financial restitution is going to satisfy persons who’s relatives were killed or sexually assaulted or the like. What you would quickly see is a return to biblical justice where the family will just kill the offender.

So?

And then family feuds will develop.

Family feuds developed under your system.

And in any event with a civil court system with judgments enforced by a sheriff or constable there is no way to make restitution work. I would imagine most felons would respond to “may I collect my restitution by your consent without initiation of force” would be “**** you” and now you have to force them to pay.

If you don't pay restitution, then you become an outlaw.
 

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So?



Family feuds developed under your system.



If you don't pay restitution, then you become an outlaw.
So you want courts to empower the population to Murder someone for not paying a debt?
 
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