Another day, another reason to rant about my country

[Medusa]

Can you back up your statement?

you know what l mean

 

[Canell]

you know what l mean

No, I don't.

 

[Medusa]

No, I don't.

read my longer post again if not

 

[Canell]

read my longer post again if not

I'm confused too. Which longer post do you have in mind? One that explains how Jews steal, which I asked you to back up?

Also, from here:

In much of continental Europe, Romanies are known by names cognate to the Greek τσιγγάνοι tsinganoi

The name originates with Byzantine Greek ατσίγγανοι (atsinganoi, Latin adsincani) or αθίγγανοι (athinganoi, literally "untouchables")...

Do you know who they call "the untouchable" in mother India?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untouchable_%28social_system%29

 

[Medusa]

I'm confused too. Which longer post do you have in mind? One that explains how Jews steal, which I asked you to back up?

Also, from here:



Do you know who they call "the untouchable" in mother India?

Untouchability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dear Medusa, please stop talking rubish. eace



From Wikipedia:



The rest I leave to you to read.

P.S. Gypsies are not despised because they have dark skin but because they steal, pickpocket, lie, kill, beg, rape, are not willing to work (lazy), exploit social welfare, multiply like animals (12-13 year olds are giving birth already), etc, etc.

do you really dont understand what l mean ?

the civilized (!) europe hated not only gypsies but also jews ,turks

were they stealing too ?






and the racist cast system takes its source from teh civilized arians

The word Aryans is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘arya’ which means noble, and it is a fairly recent term referring to a mythical race whose key founding value is racism. It is generally stated that they entered India through the north-west sometime after 1000 BC, however, no archaeological data has been found to fix the date of this event. The term Aryan is applied to the three so-called forward castes in India - Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaisyas who constitute about 12% of India’s population. However, this minority group has for the most part gained control of the religious, political and economic power in India today.

The Brahmins are also called the Rg Vedic people and are classified as the religious patriarchs of all religious thought in India and the world. The Rg Veda is considered very ancient and the foundation of all religious thought. Prior to the arrival of the Vedic people, the Indian population, the Dravidians, were considered uncivilized, who were later cultured and illuminated by the Vedic people. The Rg Veda which speaks in such derogatory terms of the enemies subdued by the Aryan tribes, gives the impression that they were all savage barbarians.1 However, with the discovery of the Indus Valley civilization in 1920, centuries of error in our history has been exposed. The ancient dwellers in India, the Dravidians, were highly cultured and had developed an advanced and sophisticated way of life.

http://www.appiusforum.net/aryans.html

 

[Canell]

the civilized (!) europe hated not only gypsies but also jews...

were they stealing too ?

I don't know, you were the one claiming that they do. I still await prove of that, please?

As for Turks, yes, they tried to 'steal' Europe's land but were stopped at Vienna. Later on they kept most of the Balkan peninsula for centuries.

 

[Rainman05]

they are called romani but of course there is a reason for this definiton
.

Oh look. Someone on the internet said something. It must be TRUE! I know it's hard for you not to make a fool of yourself but gypsies didn't really exist in Europe as communities till the late XIIIth century when the first waves of gypsy immigrants were brought in by the mongol hordes of asia and later on, the ottomans.

Europeans are indo-aryan people, that is true. But that is because we came here thousands and thousands of years ago. Gypsies are indo-semitic populations.

This is a map of their penetration into Europe by centuries. While they have assimilated local customs, they never integrated into European life after centuries of existence.

Also, the caste system is a hindu invention. It's got nothing to do with Europeans.

I know this is hard for you medusa, but not all evils come from the white people. I know, I know, you ottomans hate it that Europeans forced the Ottoman empire to end slavery. First slavery of caucasians and then all slavery. And you also hate it that they dismantled the ottoman empire giving freedom to centuries of oppressed populations. I know. But that's that and you need to put it behind you now and stop making a fool of yourself.

Also, gypsies are very well discriminated against in Turkey. So much so that nobody even considers looking at them as people. Their ethnicity is not even recognized. You don't hear it in the news because, well, there is no free press there.

 

[Canell]

Romania's King of the Gypsies is laid to rest in 'air conditioned' coffin as thousands of Roma turn up for four-mile funeral march through his Transylvanian hometown

Air conditioned coffin? :lamo

They should have buried him in his Mercedes. It already has factory AC. :lamo

 

[Rainman05]

Romania's King of the Gypsies is laid to rest in 'air conditioned' coffin as thousands of Roma turn up for four-mile funeral march through his Transylvanian hometown

Air conditioned coffin? :lamo

They should have buried him in his Mercedes. It already has factory AC. :lamo

You may be joking there but he had a 80k $ car and I guess his sons didn't want to part with it. Or else, that would have been an entirely viable option.

 

[Medusa]

Oh look. Someone on the internet said something. It must be TRUE! I know it's hard for you not to make a fool of yourself but gypsies didn't really exist in Europe as communities till the late XIIIth century when the first waves of gypsy immigrants were brought in by the mongol hordes of asia and later on, the ottomans.

Europeans are indo-aryan people, that is true. But that is because we came here thousands and thousands of years ago. Gypsies are indo-semitic populations.

This is a map of their penetration into Europe by centuries. While they have assimilated local customs, they never integrated into European life after centuries of existence.

Also, the caste system is a hindu invention. It's got nothing to do with Europeans.

I know this is hard for you medusa, but not all evils come from the white people. I know, I know, you ottomans hate it that Europeans forced the Ottoman empire to end slavery. First slavery of caucasians and then all slavery. And you also hate it that they dismantled the ottoman empire giving freedom to centuries of oppressed populations. I know. But that's that and you need to put it behind you now and stop making a fool of yourself.

Also, gypsies are very well discriminated against in Turkey. So much so that nobody even considers looking at them as people. Their ethnicity is not even recognized. You don't hear it in the news because, well, there is no free press there.

l hate to disappoint you but the reason why l do it is to help you learn the history


study some dialectial materialism and the history of the industrial revolution
:mrgreen:

 

[Medusa]

I don't know, you were the one claiming that they do. I still await prove of that, please?

As for Turks, yes, they tried to 'steal' Europe's land but were stopped at Vienna. Later on they kept most of the Balkan peninsula for centuries.[/QUOTE

l am not ottomanist but l begin to think you want to troll me and try to defend the ottomans if you imply teh west didnt steal anything but it was just ottomans who did it

.((

the most parts of this world wasnt colonized by teh most civilized state ?

according to rainman ,UK is always the most civilized country

 

[Hdreamz]

I don't know, you were the one claiming that they do. I still await prove of that, please?

As for Turks, yes, they tried to 'steal' Europe's land but were stopped at Vienna. Later on they kept most of the Balkan peninsula for centuries.[/QUOTE

l am not ottomanist but l begin to think you want to troll me and try to defend the ottomans if you imply teh west didnt steal anything but it was just ottomans who did it

.((

the most parts of this world wasnt colonized by teh most civilized state ?

according to rainman ,UK is always the most civilized country

Having lived in the UK and a few other European nations such as Sweden, Norway and Germany. Id say the UK is on a par with Germany but Scandinavia is pretty civilized. That might just be the reduction of noise and congestion though.

I dont see what you have against the UK Medusa? Thats the 2nd time you took a jab at them and yet i cant see any reasoning. Being one of those colonials i wanted see what your issue actually is?

 

[Red_Dave]

So I nearly puked 10 min ago. Which is kind of upsetting since i just ate. I have to remind myself never to watch the news while/after I eat.

So tomorrow, the fatso, the "international king of gypsies" , is going to be burried. And apparently, and I kid you not, there will be a succession ceremony and his son, Dorin Cioaba, will be the king. And they will actually say: The king is dead, long live the king! ; after the burial. I kid you not.

Now this would be fine you know, if they were actual royalty. I mean, if there actually was a lineage of royalty. But this title of "king of gypsies" has only existed since 97. Not 1097, or 1197 or anything. Since 1997. It's made up. This guy, Florin Cioaba, self-proclaimed himself and gained a place in the International Gypsy Union (which is a real institution) to you know, be part of it and made it some kind of an official title there. I thought it was a very elaborate and poor taste "nickname" of sorts but no, it's a real thing. And there is a real succession law for it. Mind = blown.

Now I already said that the king of gyspies died at 54 because he was too fat and stupid at a hospital in Turkey. The doctors may have saved him from his fatness if they had the time but there is no salvation from stupidity. This is his son:

Look at him. Look at his fat face. He's bound for a heart attack any day now. If the fatness won't kill him, the stupidity will surely cause him a stroke. Listening to him for 2min while I was searching for the remote nearly caused me to go blind because of all the stupidity.

Anyway. I think it's disgraceful. I think it's stupid. And I'm generally appaled. There will be international attendance to the funeral. Don't ask me who, I didn't stick around to find out. But yeah. Anyway, this is all I could think about.

I'm done. I'm just done.

These are the only Gypsy Kings I'll ever recognize !

 

[Medusa]

Having lived in the UK and a few other European nations such as Sweden, Norway and Germany. Id say the UK is on a par with Germany but Scandinavia is pretty civilized. That might just be the reduction of noise and congestion though.

I dont see what you have against the UK Medusa? Thats the 2nd time you took a jab at them and yet i cant see any reasoning. Being one of those colonials i wanted see what your issue actually is?

hi dream

do l have to support any other country's imperialism ?

 

[Hdreamz]

hi dream

do l have to support any other country's imperialism ?

I didnt say you have to support any countries imperialism. Your post was effectively saying you disagree with rainman, but between the 18th, 19th and early 20th century the UK was the most advanced state, prior to the 1st world war of course... Militarily, technologically, economically and most importantly at the time, in terms of its Naval power. Though it was one of the main culprits of the slavery movement, it was also one of the first to ban and actively seek to end the practice.

Its Imperial policy oversea's may well have been jaded, but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time was no worse. Personally i think the British Empire was a strong and positive thing for the world as a whole, bringing a common language to many nations, industrialization, fast cultural and sociological advancement of some primitive states and in the end modern self governance and representation to many of those nations. Of course it had flaws and their were many, but Turkey's imperial past is not one of colonization and trade, but one characterized by the conquering of nations by the sword. My great great grandfather fought the British in the Boer war. But Britain is no longer the world power, financial power and a leader in technology and unfortunately arms manufacture. But it is no longer a military power.

 

[Medusa]

I didnt say you have to support any countries imperialism. Your post was effectively saying you disagree with rainman, but between the 18th, 19th and early 20th century the UK was the most advanced state, prior to the 1st world war of course... Militarily, technologically, economically and most importantly at the time, in terms of its Naval power. Though it was one of the main culprits of the slavery movement, it was also one of the first to ban and actively seek to end the practice.

Its Imperial policy oversea's may well have been jaded, but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time was no worse. Personally i think the British Empire was a strong and positive thing for the world as a whole, bringing a common language to many nations, industrialization, fast cultural and sociological advancement of some primitive states and in the end modern self governance and representation to many of those nations. Of course it had flaws and their were many, but Turkey's imperial past is not one of colonization and trade, but one characterized by the conquering of nations by the sword. My great great grandfather fought the British in the Boer war. But Britain is no longer the world power, financial power and a leader in technology and unfortunately arms manufacture. But it is no longer a military power.

you seem to be a reasonable person dream

but l have to correct you at some points

you may read this link



http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...033-eastern-origins-western-civilisation.html

 

[Hdreamz]

you seem to be a reasonable person dream

but l have to correct you at some points

you may read this link



http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...033-eastern-origins-western-civilisation.html

I dont disagree that Western civilization owes alot to interaction with the East. I also agree that western civilization was in no way a virgin birth. All i am saying is that the British and to smaller extents the French, German, and Dutch empires have led to the trade orientated world we live in. You said you had to correct me, but your post you link to does not relate to anything i said in my post, nor does it correct or even correlate with anything i said.

 

[Medusa]

I dont disagree that Western civilization owes alot to interaction with the East. I also agree that western civilization was in no way a virgin birth. All i am saying is that the British and to smaller extents the French, German, and Dutch empires have led to the trade orientated world we live in. You said you had to correct me, but your post you link to does not relate to anything i said in my post, nor does it correct or even correlate with anything i said.

your post

ts Imperial policy oversea's may well have been jaded, but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time was no worse. Personally i think the British Empire was a strong and positive thing for the world as a whole, bringing a common language to many nations, industrialization, fast cultural and sociological advancement of some primitive states and in the end modern self governance and representation to many of those nations. Of course it had flaws and their were many, but Turkey's imperial past is not one of colonization and trade, but one characterized by the conquering of nations by the sword. My great great grandfather fought the British in the Boer war. But Britain is no longer the world power, financial power and a leader in technology and unfortunately arms manufacture. But it is no longer a military power.

the westerner always has to claim their civilisation have their roots in greek culture .why ? because they couldnt develop their own civilisation for hundreds of years in the history .whats more the dark middle age period dominated by abusive catholic church proves why they had to exploit teh rest of the world in order not to die of hunger.

their geographic discoveries had to start because they needed to find other ways to reach the famous silk and spice routes which were being controlled by ottomans.

then they got rich and rich through the colonization of those eastern nations that built the earliest civilisations which were the basis of all other cultures in the world.


and this period created a bourgeoisie class in europe which will open to a door to teh period of renaissance and reform .

the new rich social class developed an aesthetical understanding of life which helped the rise of art in europe that will be named " renaissance "


they also learned the printing from the east and it led to the reform period

they got rid of the catholic pressure on their lives and it created another period called enlightenment

first colonization ( by using the east's raw materials and natural sources needed for industrial production ) and the enlightenment period helped them start the industrial revolution through lots of other inventions they made during this period.

...........

 

[Hdreamz]

your post

ts Imperial policy oversea's may well have been jaded, but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time was no worse. Personally i think the British Empire was a strong and positive thing for the world as a whole, bringing a common language to many nations, industrialization, fast cultural and sociological advancement of some primitive states and in the end modern self governance and representation to many of those nations. Of course it had flaws and their were many, but Turkey's imperial past is not one of colonization and trade, but one characterized by the conquering of nations by the sword. My great great grandfather fought the British in the Boer war. But Britain is no longer the world power, financial power and a leader in technology and unfortunately arms manufacture. But it is no longer a military power.

the westerner always has to claim their civilisation have their roots in greek culture .why ? because they couldnt develop their own civilisation for hundreds of years in the history .whats more the dark middle age period dominated by abusive catholic church proves why they had to exploit teh rest of the world in order not to die of hunger.

their geographic discoveries had to start because they needed to find other ways to reach the famous silk and spice routes which were being controlled by ottomans.

then they got rich and rich through the colonization of those eastern nations that built the earliest civilisations which were the basis of all other cultures in the world.


and this period created a bourgeoisie class in europe which will open to a door to teh period of renaissance and reform .

the new rich social class developed an aesthetical understanding of life which helped the rise of art in europe that will be named " renaissance "


they also learned the printing from the east and it led to the reform period

they got rid of the catholic pressure on their lives and it created another period called enlightenment

first colonization ( by using the east's raw materials and natural sources needed for industrial production ) and the enlightenment period helped them start the industrial revolution through lots of other inventions they made during this period.


...........[/SIZE][/B]

If you look again at my initial post

"but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time "


I said at the time, i was referring to the 18th,19th and early 20th century. I am talking about effects and consequences and you are talking about the roots, im not sure what your trying to get at. You might as well be talking about Geology while i am talking sociology and economics.

And western Civilisation can be traced back to Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire in the 12th Century. And before that into the feudal states of Frankia, England, Norse and Northern European States. It was only 17th to 18th centuries and with the Industrial revolution that Western culture truly went global, i was still there before, just contained to Western Europe and N.America.

 

[Medusa]

If you look again at my initial post

"but in comparison to other imperial nations at the time "


I said at the time, i was referring to the 18th,19th and early 20th century. I am talking about effects and consequences and you are talking about the roots, im not sure what your trying to get at. You might as well be talking about Geology while i am talking sociology and economics.

And western Civilisation can be traced back to Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire in the 12th Century. And before that into the feudal states of Frankia, England, Norse and Northern European States. It was only 17th to 18th centuries and with the Industrial revolution that Western culture truly went global, i was still there before, just contained to Western Europe and N.America.

no ,you ignore the root and thats why you think UK helped those primitive nations develop by destroying their own cultures.

bringing a common language.

interesting

 

[Hdreamz]

no ,you ignore the root and thats why you think UK helped those primitive nations develop by destroying their own cultures.

bringing a common language.

interesting

You make no sense. Nothing you responded with related to anything i said, instead you have seemingly just aired an anti British Imperialism sentiment. If you want to talk about roots that's fine, make a new thread and we will talk about the roots of Western civilization. But dont respond to a post saying i needed correction and then effectively start talking about something completely different.

The fact that Britain led to the independance of 58 nations through ever increasing self governance from colonies, oversea's territories, dominions and then independant states is a fact. For many of those nations Britain changed them from agricultural and sometimes hunter-gatherer societies into industrial and democratic (Varying degree's) nations such as Austrailia, Canada, New Zealand. As well as African nations such as Nigeria, Kenya and South Africa.

If you want to talk about the roots of Western Civilization thats fine, but stop talking pears when i am clearly holding apples.

 

[Medusa]

You make no sense. Nothing you responded with related to anything i said, instead you have seemingly just aired an anti British Imperialism sentiment. If you want to talk about roots that's fine, make a new thread and we will talk about the roots of Western civilization. But dont respond to a post saying i needed correction and then effectively start talking about something completely different.

The fact that Britain led to the independance of 58 nations through ever increasing self governance from colonies, oversea's territories, dominions and then independant states is a fact. For many of those nations Britain changed them from agricultural and sometimes hunter-gatherer societies into industrial and democratic (Varying degree's) nations such as Austrailia, Canada, New Zealand. As well as African nations such as Nigeria, Kenya and South Africa.


If you want to talk about the roots of Western Civilization thats fine, but stop talking pears when i am clearly holding apples.

no need for demagogy


teh justification of the brutal colonization seems too bigoted racist and stupid

 

[Hdreamz]

no need for demagogy


teh justification of the brutal colonization seems too bigoted racist and stupid

Wait a minute, you clearly hold up Eastern Imperialism and that of the Ottomans, which would be just as bigotted, stupid and racist... I wasn't justifying Imperialism, just stating that it had some positives, such as trade for instance and democracy in the commonwealth nations. You seemed to take offense at that as some sort of slap in the face and gone off on a complete tangent.

 

[Canell]

jews used to steal l think! teh west has always hated them too.

OK, Medusa, let's forget about colonialism for the time being and get back to business. Do you have any proof of that?